THE SECRET to NIRVANA Revealed!!!!!!! Who am I? What is the meaning to life?

reply to post by NorEaster

continued...

most of the atoms in the human body are hydrogen atoms, which are the basis for that body. Now keep zooming in, to smaller and smaller fragments on the planck scale, and now we have sub-atomtic particles, then quarks, leptons, higgs bosons, and possibly strings after that (which do exist in Einstein/Bose Condensate) ...going ever and ever smaller, deeper, a never ending Zoom in.....is there an Absolute that we can stop at? Regardless of the answer, the end point is what sustains the All.

Is it open ended then? Yes, I believe so. I had this HUGE mystical Insight that when you zoom in microcosmically as far as you can go, while at the same time, you zoom out macrocosmically as far as you can go, you'll end up crashing into the starting points of both ends of the spectrum.

There is an experiential substrate source of consciousness that underlies all of reality and is Absolute and Infinite itself. It's as if the Absolute is Infinite Water, while the rest of reality is frozen fragments.

"An Enlightened individual is no different from a Stem Cell.

From this perspective, the parables and stories of ALL of the World's Spiritual Texts and Holy Scriptures become related. Each is simply a description of the Relationships of All Life - written in the words of the time for the people of that time and culture."

So I looked into your Holon theory. One thing I find important about theories, is to learn when in the Author's life was it first introduced, what was the author's character like, known for, other interests, an so on.

Koestler shares with Ryle the view that the mind of a person is not an independent non-material entity, temporarily inhabiting and governing the body. One of the book's central concepts is that as the human brain evolved, it retained and built upon earlier, more primitive brain structures. The work attempts to explain humanity's tendency towards self-destruction in terms of brain structure, philosophies, and its overarching, cyclical political–historical dynamics, reaching the height of its potential in the nuclear arms arena.

Right off the bat there's a HUGE fail for me there. No Soul. A soul that I have found in myself, seen with my Third eye after others have past away, and remember as being the core pre-existent me prior to a body.

Luckily we can sort of band aid this huge gaping hole in his theories, by realizing that towards the end of his life, Koestler was extremely interested in Mysticism. Noting here that his Holon theory predates his interest in Mysticism, and therefore could be said to have failed to account for various aspects of Mysticism.

Upon further research, I think that along the several parts that we disagree, there are also several others that we do agree on. I propose that we can come to an agreement in Theories and Philosophies under the terms of Ken Wilbur's "AQAL" Framework:

Wilber holonic theory or as he refers to it "the twenty tenets" were first laid out in the opening chapters to SES. They provide the foundation for his mapping out of the All Quadrants, All Levels framework (AQAL). It is clear from the very beginning of SES that Wilber now regards the idea of the holon as the primary explanatory unit in his AQAL framework. This is conveyed in his famous statement that, "Reality as a whole is not composed of things or processes, but of holons"

I say this particularly because Wilbur goes extremely deep into experience itself, consciousness, enlightenment, and so on ...tenets which seem to have been left out of the Ghost in The Machine's soulless factor:

Wilber's AQAL framework was a way of seeing the whole developmental and evolutionary nature of all relative knowledge, experience and activity.

Source
I think the link between me and you is Wilber.
WIki Wilber

My ultimate problem with Holons & emergent systems, is that we are still in a process of conceptually labeling & defining fragments of wholes and the whole itself, when the truth is that the concept, definition, idea of a thing is not the same as an actual thing.

Does a Tree experience separateness/subjectivity from the rest of reality? Is separateness and illusion that only humans/animals/bugs uphold?

Ultimately I have to start with who am I? What constitutes me? Been at it for a decade of serious searching and have found truths that Buddha, Christ, Socrates, Empedocles, Parmenides, and various others have said that can be experientially tested and seen to be true.

He says about consciousness:

Witnessing consciousness[23] and Nondual consciousness which technically are not states in that they are understood as being the state of all states.

To comprehend me, comprehend the above 1st.

reply to post by NorEaster

LAst and not least to your last thread, my reply:

There aren't any links to all of my material.

You gave me access to 100-200 + pages I remember. I'll search my inbox to see if I still have it and post it as proof.

My conclusion then, the same now, except with further insight. Needlessly heady and intellectually repetitive. Ken Wilbur does a better job because he includes Mysticism (Something Koestler didn't get to, til after Holon theory, and much later in life. On top of that, reading about Mysticism, is not the same as experiencing it).

There was another guy on this board who tried to claim that he'd studied my "material", and he went down in flames when he couldn't answer the most basic question concerning a staple aspect of the theory. I suspect that you'd suffer the same fate if likewise challenged.

I'll go the better route, and use the same loophole that supersedes any debates about it.
#1.) Ken Wilbur.
#2.) Something Wilbur agrees on and is a tenet built on logic & reason. Anything that can be said, conceptualized, theorized, imagined, separated, distinctions made of, labels put, is not inherent reality itself.

The thought of a rock, is not the rock.

Anything you try to come back with, is more words, theories, ideas, systems, holons labels, concepts, etc ....the same systems that allowed you to falsely jump the gun on Infinity not exist, counter to the recent evidence.

You have no clue whatsoever concerning the nature of reality as I've laid it out if you suspect that we see reality in the same way and are just divided by semantics.

Ken Wilbur

Trust me, I know what I've uncovered, and it's not something that can be revealed empirically. It takes extremely serious and rigid logic, with uncompromising discipline in the handling of each indication that makes its way to the surface as you patiently remove layer after layer of the kinds of perception distortions that are nothing more than the default byproducts of sentience itself.

All that above is a deception distortion.

Plus, you jumped the gun on infinity. Nuff said.

You can't "simplify" the effort to correct 6,000 to 10,000 years worth of belligerent ignorance that's been ground into the very DNA of each and every human being on this planet.

If the above statement, is without a doubt, Absolutely True, then your own ideas/theories, and mish mash patchworks of other peoples ideas molded into your own, is also "belligerent ignorance that's been ground into the very DNA" of yourself as well and you are not free from it.

That you think it's possible to simplify this is proof that you have no idea what I've discovered.

Occam's Razor.

If I'm describing an apple, I can just give you one to hold, see, smell, taste, and feel for yourself. I don't have to go off on an apple being a holon and emergent system stemming from tree's, themselves on the level of orchards, in fields, in towns, in counties, in states, in countries, in planets, etc ad infinitum ever bigger hierarchies, and sums of its parts are not the whole and 200 pages plus on the intellecualisim of an apple.

Just hand me an apple. Simple!!!!

Hell, you don't seem to even understand the true impact on research and technology that the Quantum itself had, so why should I be surprised at your haphazard treatment of my own theory.

Sure I don't, says sarcasm. More assumption. I study daily, weekly, yearly, books, vids, latest news, discuss with Phd's on the subject. The impacts are everything. The quantum fields are pointing to what the mystics have been saying for thousands of years.
Google: Amit Goswami

I don't expect you to sign on to what I'm doing. I'm not stupid. I do appreciate your engaging me on it though, and I salute your tenacity in promoting your own views. I enjoyed the chance to engage, and I thank you for the exercise.

Yours is nothing new under the sun. Mine neither. Your combining various theories into One, your own. People do that all the time. It's the evolution of thought, philosophy, science, and everything else.

Just saying it's incomplete. Wilber took it, where you should have. And where he takes it to, is where the Truth will be found.

In order to complete your theories, we need science to know Consciousness to a very advanced degree. Consciousness is the key to unlock everything. Without it, everything else fails in incompletion

reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy


Thank you for creating this thread. It's great that knowledgeable people like you want to share these knowledge

Your explanations really helped me clearing my thoughts and doubts. I will do like what you advise.

I can see life much better than when I saw it before. I started to value people more.

Thank you very much!!!

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy

 

The bible version is:
The father, the son and the holy ghost.
The father is awareness, the son is the light of consciousness and together they make me, the whole ghost.

Thank you for this post. It makes everything clear to the some of the questions that popped out in my head, like a Universal Key to any complicated lock pattern.

This post of yours also makes the Teachings of Jesus from Gospel of Thomas becomes easier to understand.

Thank you very much!!

reply to post by Thiaoouba Prophecy


Once non-duality is experienced, it cannot be un-experienced.
Its the end of all questions.
Namaste.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by NorEaster

 

That you think it's possible to simplify this is proof that you have no idea what I've discovered.

Occam's Razor.

If I'm describing an apple, I can just give you one to hold, see, smell, taste, and feel for yourself. I don't have to go off on an apple being a holon and emergent system stemming from tree's, themselves on the level of orchards, in fields, in towns, in counties, in states, in countries, in planets, etc ad infinitum ever bigger hierarchies, and sums of its parts are not the whole and 200 pages plus on the intellecualisim of an apple.

Just hand me an apple. Simple!!!!

Like I said, you're clueless. This statement proved it yet again. You don't even realize how obvious you've made your ignorance with this odd apple analogy. And Occam's Razor? You aren't even applying that properly here. It states that the hypothesis that makes the fewest assumptions should be chosen. And yet, here you are making all kinds of erroneous assumptions about the presentation of a thesis that you clearly don't understand and defending it by tossing out an erroneously applied reference to Occam's Razor. The irony is brilliant.

Hell, you don't seem to even understand the true impact on research and technology that the Quantum itself had, so why should I be surprised at your haphazard treatment of my own theory.

Sure I don't, says sarcasm. More assumption. I study daily, weekly, yearly, books, vids, latest news, discuss with Phd's on the subject. The impacts are everything. The quantum fields are pointing to what the mystics have been saying for thousands of years.
Google: Amit Goswami

The Quantum established the quantization of physical reality (ie; no infinitely linear gradient exists in reality) and that's all it did. You really don't have any idea what the lowly Quantum changed, relative to research and technology. I rest my case.



Stick with philosophy, son. No one can prove anything one way or the other on you if you stick with that.

reply to post by NorEaster

Thus far, Scientific evidence is pointing to an actual Infinity existing
I rest my case in the fluff of your assumptions. Your theories don't allow for predicting trends and possibilities. All I have to do is remind everyone of the failure of your "infinity doesn't exist" bboy rap vid, which sadly proved nothing.

Besides that, you take 2 examples from my last 3 replies and try to make a point, without ever simply stating yours.

Im saying, yours is illusion based. Conceptual dreams that a few people agree on. Ken Wilber took your theories to a place you never could, so just admit it and we can both move on