Obama Administration: We Can and Will Force Christians to Act Against Their Faith

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by beezzer
The first Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Pretty darn clear to me.

So you agree that corporations are people and should have the same rights? The first amendment was written for people not companies.

The 1st Amendment doesn't specify. It simply says or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Now you may want to destroy the 1st Amendment by putting conditions on it.

I certainly don't.

Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by Druscilla

 

How's this?

If you want to work for a company who was founded on "Christian belief" you the employee, should "SUCK IT UP" or get another job. People have a RIGHT to run a business with conviction.

SO now TPTB can decide which religion believes what? According to the law, Muslims don't have to.... blah blah blah. But if they owned a business they would, right? Or is that only for Christians?

TPTB can put beliefs, faiths, religions on a list and say these don't, but these do..... ? TPTB and government can now decide a religious doctrine?

Post Preventive Pregnancy Measures?....... How about Pre...? Keep your knees together? And if you can't, why should your boss pay for it?
You seem, very progressive, civilized, enlightened and educated.

edit on 31-12-2012 by murphy22 because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2012 by murphy22 because: added statement

Weigh ins like this are exactly what keep the people you work for from being just another PTB.
Yes, there's more than one PTB, depending your perspective.

In an economy where many people are happy to find whatever work they can get, do they compromise their own private stock on whatever faith they follow just because they were lucky enough to get hired somewhere?

Keep your knees together?
How about we pass a law that forces all boys and men to get a vasectomy where they're only allowed to get it reversed (on their own dime) when they can demonstrate financial responsibility, like, for instance, keeping a current and active accidental pregnancy insurance policy, similar to car insurance, just in case there's an accident?

It works both ways.
Some guy runs into you one night, and, well, if guys carried insurance that could take two strange gametes paired off all the way through University, as well as covering other compensations required on a Woman's side if she's going to have go through all those really major biological transformations, some of them permanent, plus near 2 decades of being a slave to some tiny human, you might find some girls punching that ticket.

Start carrying insurance boys.
Perhaps you should be required by law before being allowed to operate a penis?

See how that works?

Fact of the matter is, the abortion pill, however you want to name it, spin it, sensationalize it, or over-dramatize it, is medically accepted under health care insurance; at least in this case, and the employer, regardless their beliefs, can't dictate, decree, or make proclamations about what is and is not an allowable clinical practice.

The story linked is a distortion of what was actually done. It was intentionally distorted by a group wanting to cause conflict.

The United States is governed by the US Constitution, not by any religion. People are free to practice whatever religion they want in their own personal lives but they are not free to force their beliefs on other people. If a person does not want to use birth control, they don't have to. If an individual person doesn't want to go to the doctor, they don't have to. If an individual person is opposed to abortion, they aren't required to first get pregnant, then have an abortion all against their will. However, they also can't prevent others from doing the things they are opposed to just because they don't like it. That's what freedom of religon is all about. YOU can worship in the way you see fit and every other person can worship in the way they see fit. They can't force you to worship a certain way and you can't force them to worship a certain way.

When it moves past the individual status, it's no longer a question of your faith or your practice, it's in the realm of the faith and practice of others. If you own a business that employes other people, it's no longer your personal religion. You are participating in society, not participating as an individual.

If we were a country made up of mostly muslims yet you retained your beliefs, would you want laws that favored muslims and took away from you personally? Of course not. There is a group of people who call themselves Christian who want to force other people to live and believe exactly the way they do. If people don't fall into line, they shout and scream and say their freedom of religion is being taken away. It's not. Your freedom of religion stops with you. It's for you and you alone. It's not something for you to force other people to abide by, it's not something for you to decide what to provide or withold from employees, it's not something you can dictate to others, it's for you and you alone.

We are not a theocracy, we will never be a theocracy and I'm thankful for that. If we were a theocracy, then the national religon would change with the population and with the leadership, but we don't have a national religion, our government leaders don't determine what we can and can't believe as far as faith goes. We can't be forced to be muslim or buddhist or anything else and we can't force others to be Christian because it's a religion, not a government.

Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. There is a separation between our government and our individual religons and it will remain that way.

The linked story is false. It is skewed and distorted from what really went on. Obama said NOTHING against Christianity and is not doing anything against Christianity. Obama is Christian himself (regardless of what extremist distorters want people to believe). One of the main tenets of our faith is THOU SHALT NOT LIE, but that linked story does just that. They are doing more to themselves against their supposed faith than Obama is doing and they should be ashamed.

Originally posted by dc4lifeskater
jeez is obama just wanting to get everyone pissed off at him now they he cant be president again or what... wtf is going on with him lately.. change is right.. for the worse.

good for Obama... it's about time people that believe in mythical beings, stop trying to force others to follow the rules of mythical beings.

reply to post by dc4lifeskater


He DID promise a transparent government...only he forgot to mention he would be transparently dismantling the American constitution and just about everything America has stood for!

He may not be able to run for president after this term, and so may feel he has nothing to lose...however, he can be removed from office and tried as a domestic enemy, and sent to prison for a long stretch.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by beezzer
The first Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Pretty darn clear to me.

what are you talking about?...there are all kinds of "conditions" regarding the first amendment, that have been on the books for decades

So you agree that corporations are people and should have the same rights? The first amendment was written for people not companies.

The 1st Amendment doesn't specify. It simply says or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Now you may want to destroy the 1st Amendment by putting conditions on it.

I certainly don't.

edit on 31-12-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

what?...there have been all kinds of conditions put on the 1st amendment, that have been around for decades

"We Can and Will Force Christians to Act Against Their Faith"

lets use " no you can't "

see what i did there ?



happy newyears guys

reply to post by jimmyx


Name the conditions.

Originally posted by pheniks
"We Can and Will Force Christians to Act Against Their Faith"

lets use " no you can't "

see what i did there ?

happy newyears guys

the early christians burned witches becuase they feared they were a product of satan...that's about how stupid this arguement is.

reply to post by Druscilla


Again you really miss the point. Where is your command and control of your actions? Do women not take responsibilty and at least partial blame (if you see it that way) for having a child?

Why would it be only the "boys" fault/insurance? How about the women carry full coverage in case they bump someone in the parking lot?

The whole issue has nothing to do with how much some women hate men or who hates religion.

It has to do wether TPTB can force a company to comply with an unconstitutional (color of law).

However I see that you feel the same about the "abortion pill" as I do about Ammo. So I can relate. Better to have it and not need it...... Only thing is nobody helps me pay for it and that it is constitutionally protected. LOL!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Name the conditions.

slander, loud noise laws, protesting without a premit, just 3 off the top of my head

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Name the conditions.

slander, loud noise laws, protesting without a premit, just 3 off the top of my head

edit on 31-12-2012 by jimmyx because: spell

None of those place conditions on the ability to worship freely.

None.

If I own a private company and place religious tenents on it, it is my right. My free expression of my religion.

If we make Hobby Lobby provide abortion meds, then I suppose it should be okay to force muslims to eat pork.

If the government so choses.

Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by Druscilla

 

Again you really miss the point. Where is your command and control of your actions? Do women not take responsibilty and at least partial blame (if you see it that way) for having a child?

Why would it be only the "boys" fault/insurance? How about the women carry full coverage in case they bump someone in the parking lot?

The whole issue has nothing to do with how much some women hate men or who hates religion.

It has to do wether TPTB can force a company to comply with an unconstitutional (color of law).

However I see that you feel the same about the "abortion pill" as I do about Ammo. So I can relate. Better to have it and not need it...... Only thing is nobody helps me pay for it and that it is constitutionally protected. LOL!

edit on 31-12-2012 by murphy22 because: added statement

the first amendment is clear....one cannot force others to follow their own religous beliefs. why is this so hard to understand?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Name the conditions.

slander, loud noise laws, protesting without a premit, just 3 off the top of my head

edit on 31-12-2012 by jimmyx because: spell

None of those place conditions on the ability to worship freely.

None.

If I own a private company and place religious tenents on it, it is my right. My free expression of my religion.

If we make Hobby Lobby provide abortion meds, then I suppose it should be okay to force muslims to eat pork.

If the government so choses.

i'll use your arguement, ok?...you cannot force muslims to eat pork, however muslims cannot force people to not eat pork

Originally posted by MysterX
reply to post by dc4lifeskater

 

He DID promise a transparent government...only he forgot to mention he would be transparently dismantling the American constitution and just about everything America has stood for!

He may not be able to run for president after this term, and so may feel he has nothing to lose...however, he can be removed from office and tried as a domestic enemy, and sent to prison for a long stretch.

Since George W Bush was not removed from office and sent to prison for being a war criminal and outright lying to the country on a daily basis, on what grounds could we possibly try to do something to Obama? Just because you don't agree with him doesn't make him a criminal. He's not dismantling anything, he's not taking away what we stand for. We are NOT a "Christian Nation", we are a nation that's not founded on religion. We are a nation with laws based on the Constitution, not on the Bible, not on the Koran, not on any other religous text.

There are people who try to demonize anyone who doesn't share the same view they share. They distort, they lie, the outright fabricate things to try to sway others. That is dishonesty, that goes against what they say they believe but they continue to do it day after day. They are nothing but hypocrites and idiots who don't know enough about their own religion or their own government to make a coherant argument. Others read what they write and agree with them because they're idiots too. Instead of just accepting what sounds good to you, learn the truth involved. Read the Constitution, read the laws, read the Bible instead of just believing what somebody else tells you. Reading one passage every now and then, listening to someone read a passage behind a pulpit or reading an article somebody wrote about it is NOT the same as reading it yourself in its entirety. If you love God so much and love your religion so much, at least read the book it's founded upon!

Today's "Christians" are the biggest abomination that has ever existed toward Christianity.

Jesus Christ was not a truck driving, beer drinking, gun toting redneck born in the bible belt and would most likely be highly offended by that group and the way they behave and treat others. Jesus Christ was the ultimate "liberal" and the people who shout his name the most and the loudest are the very people who would have had him crucified if they were alive 2000 years ago.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by beezzer
The first Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Pretty darn clear to me.

So you agree that corporations are people and should have the same rights? The first amendment was written for people not companies.

The 1st Amendment doesn't specify. It simply says or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Now you may want to destroy the 1st Amendment by putting conditions on it.

I certainly don't.

edit on 31-12-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

It says in it of the people not of the people and the companies they may own. And you are wanting to destroy it by giving that right to a company.

reply to post by jimmyx


The folks who own Hobby Lobby are not making society not use the abortion drugs. They just feel that it is against their religious faith to use it or buy it. People don't HAVE to work at Hobby Lobby. No-one is making them.

The only entity forcing someone to do something against their will is the government.

Originally posted by buster2010


It says in it of the people not of the people and the companies they may own. And you are wanting to destroy it by giving that right to a company.

Oh lordy! So people can't run their own companies now.



The government has final say in how a person is supposed to run their business?



Why not just bend over and have government own us like a prison (snip)!

reply to post by jimmyx

You're absolutely right. The 1st Amendment says no one can force religion on anyone else...OR INTERFERE WITH IT'S FREE PRACTICE. You folks always drop that second part of the meaning in these debates. Interesting how that selective reasoning works.

Oh, incidentally.... If a PRIVATE BUSINESS ...which happens to choose (Or the business itself didn't actually CHOOSE at all, as happens enough) to be UNION can force me to join that outside and independent organization ..then force me to pay them...just for the ability to hold a job at that private business.. I have a question.

How is THAT acceptable in the position it puts employees in....yet allowing another private business to be run how that owner sees fit based on his Faith in this case ....and actually protected (unlike the Union example) by the Constitution isn't?

Prior to President Obama...No one has ever tried to FORCE any American organization or business to act in direct contradiction to the tenets of their faith. Not that I'm aware of. That makes this unique, precedent setting and 100%, totally unacceptable. Guns? Hell.. people won't likely fight over guns. Religion? Does the term IMMORTAL SOUL mean anything? To a non-religious person...probably not. People who HAVE no religion seem to think this is negotiable. Well, That Soul part makes it NON-Negotiable. Entirely. Salvation issues don't get debated for compromise.

Perhaps thats why, again, many states have outright OUTLAWED Obama's little health plan.

I hope he has fun with this idea of his....in those states that still allow him to attempt it. It's far short of them all after the past election and passage of the state amendments against it.

Originally posted by beezzer
People don't HAVE to work at Hobby Lobby. No-one is making them.

And Hobby Lobby don't HAVE to be in business if they do not want to follow the same rules as everyone else. No one is making them.