Genetic memory... the wisdom of all who came before?

Originally posted by mattison0922

Veritas, these are all quotes from you in this thread: Did you read this study, or was it presented to you? I'd really like to see this particular study. What was n? What behaviors were investigated? What were the total number of behaviors classified? How many different behaviors do psychologists think I am capable of engaging in to come up with a 40% figure? What were the particular criteria used to these describe and classify behaviors? How was compliance or non-compliance with a particular behavior decided?

The study that I keep refering to is in a university textbook by the name of The Personality Puzzle which is written by a man named Funder. Yes, I actually read this and I'm not simply regurgitating something that a professor told me. As far as I know, there are no links to this text on the web, but I'm sure that you could order a copy if you wanted to. Otherwise, do a simple search on google or yahoo and I'm sure you'll find something. Sorry, but I'm not sending you my copy lol. My girlfriend currently has my copy, so tonight (once I get the text back) I'll post the names of the researchers involved. Maybe that will make it easier to perform a search.

They did list to some extend the kind of behaviors that were monitored and judged in this research, but I can't remember off the top of my head what exactly they were. I will try to find those specific details as well, if necessary. I am not majoring or minoring in psychology, so forgive me for the lack of specifics.

I'll post the names of the researchers involved. Maybe that will make it easier to perform a search.

That would be very cool. In fact, the particular chapter or whatever you are looking at should cite the primary reference.

so forgive me for the lack of specifics.

No problem. Forgive my overbearing personality. Contrary to the way it may seem from time to time, I am not attacking you or your beliefs; in fact, I think this thread is pretty cool, and it's forcing me to think about things from different perspectives. Furthermore, I think what you postulated in your original thread has a lot of validity. The thing with the elephants for example: I wasn't saying you ARE wrong and the elephants did find that watering hole based on random migration. Unfortunately, I often find it necessary to superanalyze things, and it leads me to consider all possibilities. One thing I am particularly interested in is methods, ie: how are these studies performed. This is also the reason that I always must know and read for myself the orginal source of info. In general I insist on reading the original source, or something as close to it as possible.

My father and I are not "genetically" related yet I have some of his traits and mannerisims.

I think behaviour and physical personalities can be mostly attributed to enviroment.

Skills however I beleive are innate. You either are born with it or your not. Some people can dance while other people can "try" and dance and learn over time. While others can dance right out of the box. Some can paint or draw from memory a detailed picture while others have difficulty depicting stick figures in the proper prespective. Some people can hear with amazing clearity while others have difficulty, this is not something that can be "learned" (I am referring to audatory memorization) not simply the loss of hearing but the accuracy and acuteness of being able to hear something and then either repeat it or instantly recall the next set of sounds it is associated with. The ability to learn and retain multiple languages is something that always amazes me. I hear about people that can speak 5 or 6 languages and I always want to meet them to hear them re-speak in several tongues fluently and I am always amazed. I can not for the life of me remember completely the years of Spanish that I went through and even living in a part of the country were spanish is spoken a lot and I still am not completely comfortable with using spanish. Yet other people can recall multiple languages with ease. I on the other hand am proficient in several trades without being taught anything, grasping in function and process the entire workings of things on levels that takes other people years of learning/training. I really have no clue "how" I can do some things. And even when I think to myself (thats odd, I just said the answer without knowing anything about it) but in a conversation it comes out with ease. I later check up on my facts to find out I was right which again amazed me because I think to myself that I was just BS'ing someone with info that I thought "could" be right, only to find out that it was right.

So I think the brain holds lots of information that we are not "aware" of, the trick is how to manipulate it. I think you must live in a dellusional wolrd to fully accept the fact that there is more then just what you think you know. That means that the logical world puts barriers on you that makes you withdraw from whatever knowledge you might have "stored" by whatever means that it had been given to you. The human mind blocks itself from realizing the potential of the information. IMO all of the "experience" that GOD or the creator wants us to have is already stored in us. And life is a matter of finding the "keys" which unlock the information already in us.

Lady V was right on the money mentioning the works of Rupert Sheldrake, The Law of Formative Causation suggests that all things are in a state of evolution in which memory/instincts of the past are present.

Consider the behaviors of paramecium, they are single cellular, they have no brain, yet respond to stimuli in a manner common to their species.

Furthermore, to take this topic to it's limit, did the periodic table of elements exist as a natural law at the time of the big bang?

Or did energys released take a very long time to establish the bonding/associative behaviors they now demonstate? did they evolve?
Is what we see as matter just the physical manafestation of feilds of information which determine the behavior of all things?

It seems a completely logical conclusion that this is in fact the case, in which case matter acts like receivers for common information feilds specific to it's variety.

Therefore looking for these feilds inside matter is like pulling apart your television to try and find the pictures inside.

~~~

there are some sites which discuss such ponderings....

Holographic Consciousness is the concept, i think?

~~

There is the philosophic struggle...is man a spiritual being;
communicating with the cell and DNA/RNA contained in the cells?

ie: 6th sense, reincarnation, OBEs, NDEs...

or is man only a biological, animal, reacting to environment stimuli
~~~
i'm in the spiritual, & holographic consciousness camp, only 'science' has not
recognized, accepted the sublime connections/entanglements 'language'
~~~

side note...elephants do 'hear' Extreme Low Frequencies...but do they
also 'smell' water?? or perhaps 'read' signs, like a tracker to locate H20

(after all..never before visited water-holes are not common in basalt landscapes...but all generations of elephants are most likely to travel
the same convenient, accessible paths toward an eventual water-hole)

$...interesting points at theodynamics.org or ed mitchell apollo 14.com
(type in for your browser) or 100th monkey principle

Originally posted by mattison0922
Contrary to the way it may seem from time to time, I am not attacking you or your beliefs; in fact, I think this thread is pretty cool,

and it's forcing me to think about things from different perspectives.

No worries friend. I started this thread not so that others would agree with me, but so others would in fact scrutinize the theory I do wish to see what flaws can be found in my logic, so that I may make less a fool of myself in the future lol. I have some of the info...

The book is The Personality Puzzle, third edition by David C. Funder. Chapter 9 is titled Behavioral Genetics and Evolutionary Theory. The study that I was referring to was performed by Loehlin, Willerman and Horn in 1985 and 1989. Similar research was done by Rowe in 1994. Some of the behavioral traits listed are addiction, divorce, homosexuality, cynicism (as odd as that sounds), amount of time spent in front of the TV (how freakin weird is that? lol) and many others. Quite a few of these behavioral traits have actually been associated with specific genes that exist in people with these tendencies. Some of the molecular geneticists involved in these studies are Hamer, Copeland, Benjamin and Blum. Sadly, like most texts only the last names are given.

It's certainly an interesting read, and the author avoids using jargon that would only confuse the average person [like me ].

Consider the behaviors of paramecium, they are single cellular, they have no brain, yet respond to stimuli in a manner common to their species.

Flange, this might not be the best example. Paramecium, in general are not described as having instinct or intuition. The response of single celled organisms to their environment is purely genetic. Their 'behaviors' tend to be more concretely linked to cause and effect, ie: sugar is present, so let's make the enzymes to metabolize it. The species wide common response is based on genetics absolutely... higher organisms.... now that's a different story... IMO.

matter acts like receivers for common information feilds specific to it's variety.

I would tend to agree with this statement... this is why I made the reference to humans being tuned in to the biological frequency of others beings. However there is no reason that this couldn't extend to non-sentient matter.

side note...elephants do 'hear' Extreme Low Frequencies...but do they also 'smell' water?? or perhaps 'read' signs, like a tracker to locate H20

This question is extremely relevant in my opinion. Taken a step further: Sharks can detect blood in water at concentrations far below that where they would actually be detecting molecules of blood via direct interaction. There seems to be some sort of information relay system built into biological organisms. Emoto (www.hado.net) believes that this conveyor of information could be water. He even goes so far as to describe water molecules as holding psychic information that certain humans (psychics) are tuned in to.

Veritas.... thanks for the info with regards to 'the study.'

Matt.

Originally posted by St Udio
...is man a spiritual being;
communicating with the cell and DNA/RNA contained in the cells?

To be honest... this is certainly one of the ideas that I'd hoped would be discussed. There is also another book called Quantum Evolution, written by John Joe McFadden, who is a physicist by education, that has crossed over into biology. There is a chapter towards the end that discusses the possible quantum nature of consciousness. He sites the fact that when "conscious" thoughts occur, our neurons actually synchronize which is a bit baffling considering that (due to the "laws" of physics) they usually fire in a landing strip pattern. He then suggests that this may imply a certain feedback loop between the electromagnetic fields which surround our brains and the neurons contained within the brain matter itself. That would mean that the key to consciousness lies outside of the body and not within it, and that this feedback loop may actually function at a faster than light speed (utilizing aspects of quantum mechanics which are honestly above my head). Interesting stuff for sure. I'd love to quote directly from that book but I checked it out from the university library, read it and returned it over a year ago. This work was also on the recommended reading list in my Evolution and Behaviour class.

Originally posted by veritas93
There is a chapter towards the end that discusses the possible quantum nature of consciousness.

Actually, Stuart Hammeroff, at University of Arizona is researching this same concept. He believes that conciousness lies in the particular 'quantum state' of the microtubules. Microtubules are some of the larger components of the cell's 'skeleton' and also act as little highways within the cell. Hammeroff is an anesthesiologist (MD) who has done extensive research into conciousness. He has made very specific discoveries linking conciousness and this altered quantum state of microtubules. He was actually in the movie "What the &^(*% Do We Know," which I highly recommend for anyone enjoying this particular thread.

Originally posted by mattison0922
Actually, Stuart Hammeroff, at University of Arizona is researching this same concept. He believes that conciousness lies in the particular 'quantum state' of the microtubules. Microtubules are some of the larger components of the cell's 'skeleton' and also act as little highways within the cell. Hammeroff is an anesthesiologist (MD) who has done extensive research into conciousness. He has made very specific discoveries linking conciousness and this altered quantum state of microtubules. He was actually in the movie "What the &^(*% Do We Know," which I highly recommend for anyone enjoying this particular thread.

I do remember McFadden mentioning the microtubules. He claimed something like, they were in fact on a small enough scale that anything inside of these microtubules could be isolated form it's environment, allowing it to exist in a state of quantum superpositioning. Being in that state allows them to exist in all possible points in space/time at once? Does that sound right? Like I said, I'm far from an expert on this subject lol.

As for the movie recommendation, I've heard it's fantastic and plan on seeing it this weekend. That is assuming that the film is still playing at the one tiny (university owned) theatre that's been showing it here. Seems like it should have gotten a bit more exposure, but maybe that says something of where I live lol.

My father, brother, and myself sit with our right leg over our left. Simultaneously. I hold my elbow out when I drink coffee, like my father. My brother, related by blood and environmental experiences, could not be any more different, physically and instinctively, from me.

It is one of psychology's oldest debates. Are our decisions solely based upon our DNA/psyche/ID, or are they based upon environmental factors? I started a thesis several years ago on how primal instinctive behaviour (which could be regarded as a raw form of genetic memory) influences us today in modern society. Here are some fun examples that are practiced both by modernized and tribal groups:

- Our preference to eat in small/familial groups while facing each other- you don't see banquet tables at McDonald's, nor do you see sections with only one seat per table.

- Our general preference to keep all survival activities (work, chores, etc) limited to the daytime hours. To this day, those who have a different sleep schedule are labeled as either an insomniac or narcoleptic.

- The general disdain and confusion of homosexuals. Not only religion, but also the species survival instinct, influences our pathos regarding same-sex couples.

Gotsta Go, Folks.
Dot.

edited for editing

[edit on 26-10-2004 by dotgov101]

Much of this has been covered for years in the area of psychology...SPECIFICALLY childhood development.

As an adoptee, I am peculiarly situated to speak on the topic of "nurture versus nature."

From the day of my fostering until today--sixty years later--I never had, do not have, and will not have anything in common with my adoptive parents except common memories.

I was an alien to them from the ripe of age of five days until my adoptive father died in 1977 and my adoptive mother died in 1997. They never got where I was coming from; and I never got where they were coming from.

I met my birth mother at the age of 28. She had been married three times: to Bill, Jim and Andy. I have been married three times: to Jim, Bill and my adoptive father and first son are Andy. She had studied with Jehovah's Witnesses and served as a Rosecrucian for many years. In my experience, I studied with the Rosecrucians and served as a Witness for some twelve years.

So much for environment.

My biological father has only become known to be due to my DNA tendencies, the appearance and personalities of my children, and the similarities I have noticed between my interests and the interests of the people whom my mother alleged were actually my family.

The man whose name was on my birth certificate was not my father; my mother lied to protect my father from shame.

So, how did I figure all this out? Ask God. Only HE knows.

I am negotiating with my biological family to get more information about my father, for medical background reasons. They are flabbergasted that I ever put two-and-two together. But they knew, because my father kept journals. They simply kept silent all these sixty years.

Life is truly full of mysteries.





[edit on 2-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Woops. Duplicate. Sorry.

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Read Velikovsky's 'Mankind in Amnesia'

He delves into this in great detail.

Originally posted by veritas93

I do remember McFadden mentioning the microtubules. He claimed something like, they were in fact on a small enough scale that anything inside of these microtubules could be isolated form it's environment, allowing it to exist in a state of quantum superpositioning. Being in that state allows them to exist in all possible points in space/time at once? Does that sound right? Like I said, I'm far from an expert on this subject lol.

Veritas, sorry for the delayed reply.... this stuff is not my area of expertise either. I've actually read some of Hammeroff's stuff and had a difficult time deciphering what he actually means by 'different quantum state.' Either way, quantum changes have been observed in the anesthetized (sp) relative to those not anesthetized. Check out his site: www.quantumconsciousness.org...

As for the movie recommendation, I've heard it's fantastic and plan on seeing it this weekend. That is assuming that the film is still playing at the one tiny (university owned) theatre that's been showing it here. Seems like it should have gotten a bit more exposure, but maybe that says something of where I live lol.

The amazing this is that this movie isn't getting hardly any exposure. Where I am, (AZ) the movie has been held over for 28 weeks. People have gone to see it again and again. It's a great movie... for the open minded. Let me know if you saw it and what you think?

Emily-Cragg, thanks so much for sharing your personal experiences. I never could have presented better proof than that.

Matt, thanks for the link. I'll check it out here in a minute. As for the film, they had discontinued it by the time I could make it into a real city. Guess I'll just have to wait for it to come out on DVD... or I'm sure I could find a pirated copy somewhere The limited exposure of this film may very well say something about the general population in the southwest. I live in Texas and it got just as little exposure. It's a shame.

I have to start this thread again. It's too important to be ignored. I'd like people to research this some more and continue the thread. This thread should be 300 pages min.

I'd like to make comparisons to Superman and the crystals

And, would love anyone to offer input on this matter.

Crystal cells are our memory cells. My theory.

We have memories at birth from past lives. Some connect, some never connect.

reply to post by veritas93


I thorised about this quite a few years ago now.

Here's what i think may be going on:

Biologists and other scientists, say that our genetic 'blueprint' is governed by our DNA. OK, no arguments there. Then they go on to say, that only a mere 5% of this 'genetic' building plan is actually used to construct a human (or any other animal or plant come to that) and the remaining 95% (yes, 95%!!) is considered to be 'junk DNA' (their terminology, not mine).

As you have pointed out, there are litterally hundreds, and thousands of examples, of animals carrying out complex sets of actions, which doesn't come from any form of training or teaching from other animals, or parents.

For just one example, there exists a type of tree beetle, that lives in the deep rainforests of S. America, that has a bizarre life cycle in as much as it lives for around 30 years, (yes, approx 30 years!!!).

In itself, that isn't so strange, and doesn't appear to address the subject we are discussing here. But...

This small insect, is hatched out at the topmost branches of an equatorial tree, it then immediately starts a long and dangerous journey, crawling down from the top of the tree to the very bottom. The ones that find their way to the bottom of the tree promptly begin to burrow into the earth at the base of the tree and, REMAIN buried there for 30 YEARS!!! After this humongously long 'lay in', they ALL AS ONE, wake up from the decades old slumber, and emerge from their holes and begin climbing the tree to the topmost branches of the tree to mate, lay eggs and then...die. The cycle then repeats.

The relevant question is how do they know what to do? They have NO instruction from the previous generation as they are all dead after mating.

No other animals are showing them what to do, so what is happening here that enables these and thousands of others to have what looks very much like inherited memory?

My theory is that this so called 'JUNK DNA', is certainly not junk at all.

It seems the only plausable explaination, is that the 95% of DNA that is considered to do nothing, is in fact doing an awful lot! It is the genetic repository of inherited memory.

Whether that genetic memory goes back just one generation, or multiple generations is unknown, but it may be the case that ALL DNA based lifeforms contain this genetic memory from the whole of a particular lineage, from the start of the line (genetic heritage).

This is facinating and all, but from our point of view the importance for us is in our being able to ACCESS this genetic warehouse of very valuable information, and use it to enhance our everyday lives.

Imagine the implications for a moment...

Now, how do we access it? I beleive this has already been done and is regularly done all over the world. Admittedly, mostly in what we in the 'west' call more 'primitive' cultures. (aboriginies, amazon basin tribes etc). Although we have archeological evidence to support ancient peoples knew of this too. (Egypt, sumer, classical greece among others).

Ever wondered why the coiled snake is represented throughout ancient and contempory history as knowledge? It is also the symbol for medical knowledge. The coiled snake is the classic helix shape, and what else has a classic helix shape, that in this context, is related to knowledge? Yes, the DNA helix! DNA is a 'blueprint' to build..me, you, a bird, a fish etc, but it is MOSTLY a genetic knowledge base preserving memory, perhaps entire lives of one's ancestory, perhaps only the preceeding generations (our parents).

Running out of available characters here, so i will continue below..

...continued from above

Take the garden of eden story.

The serpent (helix) resides in the tree of life, and Adam and Eve, 'ate from the tree of life (knowledge, helical based life) But for some reason, this was considered a bad thing. I beleive this to be nothing more than ancient humans (ancient, not inferior) learning of this 'tree of life', this coiled helical 'snake' that spoke to them and gave them knowledge, that for some reason the 'powers' that be, didn't want them (us) to access.
What i wonder, are they afraid we would learn about ourselves? About our origins, our history?

So, how do we communicate in real terms with our unconsious, stored memory? Where is this memory located? I beleive every cell in our bodies contains this information, and we use our minds to access and 'converse' with our inherited memories. But this cannot be acheived in our concious state without a lifetime of training, such as with yogies, or eastern mystics.

But how can we access this information?

To answer that, you have to ask yourself a question. Why are certain species of plants and trees considered to be bad, and outlawed for human use? (garden of eden anyone?...)

Hallucinogenics are the key to unlock litterally lifetimes of stored memories.

Why are Hallucinogenics banned and illegal? Perhaps for the same reasons governments generally keep secrets, to prevent empowerment to us. To keep us subjugated, to veil our origins, and consequently our futures, and directions of development.

Research shamanism, witchdoctors, ancient egyptian 'drug' usage etc.

Speaking of egyptions, what was the central headdress decoration of the ancient egyptian kings and high preists? Yes, a coiled snake.

What of the maya and numerous other Southern American peoples of antiquity? Snakes. Serpents who showed humanity technological marvels, imparted WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE.

I beleive virtually ALL of these references to the wisdom of the snake, as practiced by the ancients and contemporary tribe peoples, is simply a series of allagorical accounts of introspective communications with this storehouse of memory, this coiled snake of knowledge, this helical strand of DNA.

Past lives anyone?

People remembering being alive hundreds of years ago?

Re-incarnation?

No, this is genuine memories of being alive before, except one is not remebering one's own past life, but that of an ancestor that has been bequeathed to us via our 'JUNK DNA' (remember, this so called junk, equals a full 95% of the total amount of DNA in any living thing)
Perhaps accessed inadvertently, during ingestion of contaminated foodstuff, such as bread contaminated with ergot. A mould very chemically similar to lysergic acid (or '___'). This was mainly the case in medieval times, but happens still around the world.

The list goes on and on, the truth is NOT out there, the truth is within every single one of us.

spikey