Heart VS Logic - Let's talk about LOVE - UNCONDITIONAL LOVE VS DOORMAT...

I am looking for ATS members opinions on love. What is love? What is true love? What is unconditional love? When does unconditional love become being a doormat for another? If you truly love another what would it take to make you stop loving them? Do you really stop loving that person? Or do you just tell yourself you no longer love them? Is who you love a choice you make or just something that happens? Is it like a light switch that you can turn on and off at will? Is love emotions or logic? Or maybe both? When it comes to love do you follow your heart or do you follow you head (logic)?

Let's talk about LOVE......

What say you?

I pose this question because I am currently trying to decide if I follow my head or my heart. I have been in and out of relationships over my 46 years and I know I have grown and learned from each one of them. Most of my past relationships I have remained friends with. Yes, a few I had major heartbreak over - eventually I was able to "get over it" and remain friends with them. To this day I love them. Not the romantic love I had for them at one time, but it is still love. I still care deeply for them. I still care about them. I still hope they find the love they are looking for. I wish them well, love, peace and happiness.

Currently, I am in a position where a man I have been seeing off and on for the past 8 years keeps coming back. I would say that out of all my relationships I have the most "unconditional love for him". He has done me wrong, many times. Yet I forgave and continued to love him regardless. I know that over the past couple years I have really grown. Yes, I can say that the pain he caused me, caused me to grow tremendously - for that I am so grateful to him. We had stopped communicating back in August of this year. In the past few weeks we had slowly started communicating again. I thought maybe we were past the point of hurt and the true friendship was kicking in. However, I see he is wanting to hit the "reset" button and start a relationship back up again. Honestly, I still love him and probably always will. However, my head tells me to move on, it's over, it's done, it's used up it's best sell by date My heart is saying something different. I still have deep love for him. Although I think there is too much hurt from the past to get past it. I think the trust has been broken beyond repair...yet I still love him. How can that be? I thought after the past 4 months of not communicating, healing, and moving on with my life it was over. Yet a part of me is saying it's not. Sigh...

reply to post by summer5

If you truly love another what would it take to make you stop loving them? Do you really stop loving that person? Or do you just tell yourself you no longer love them?

I normally don't get into these matters... but since I saw this thread...I'll say this

Sometimes it IS possible to wash your hands off a person. Love doesn't have to turn into "hate", but its possible to stop feeling love.

Is love emotions or logic?

IMO, its logic that manifests as emotion that you experience. 2 sides of the same coin... you need both. Emotions without logic spells trouble. Logic without experiencing emotions means nothing.

And also.... being a doormat is not a good idea.
Don't sugar coat a bitter situation. People can be selfish... instead of "giving" to the one who sincerely loves them, they would rather "keep"... or even worse, "take" and not "give back". Don't be stuck on the wrong end of a deal. Recognize who the "takers", "givers" and "keepers" are around you.

My advice : Don't be too much of a "giver" when it comes to "keepers" and "takers".

My two cents.

The doormat issue is a personal one, because some people who find themselves in some odd situations, end up finding there was a reason for it, so you have to do a lot of searching.

Depends what you call doormat. Ie. simply being used nonstop by everyone or one specific person you keep trying to help? Or more often, giving an inch and having someone continually taking a mile from then on around you?

Care takers or givers do tend can attract that more, but if they've been on a spiritual journey for some time, they would never care overly, because they already sense they come from a wonderful abundance, that makes this boot camp pale in comparison, and so its all about being the mature one, trying to assist. Obviously setting boundaries is important. But also deciding what issues are the most important.

And overcoming some human psychology. For example, a foster kid, almost an adult, who didn't stay long anywhere else, though I wanted him to have a safe place, to be safe, instead of Vancouver and possibly homeless, as the ministry was more or less wanting to send him on a bus there, its not easy stuff. He's got core issues, damage, manipulative, and brought lots of weirdness into our house with other kids. And so I was kicking him out, but he fell apart, and I realized. If he were my older child, with those traits, no way would I abandon him, so its just ongoing setting boundaries. In the end, nothing here is coming with me.

I want everyone safe, no matter how many wounds or problems they have.

My father was in a foster home at 2 and he's always had more emotional problems than his older brother, who was in elementary school when his mother became very ill. My dad's core was affected, and he is someone who also manipulates situations, controls others alot, dangles carrots. Doesn't follow through. He grew up in a farming community so he worked hard, unlike this youth, but thats a different set of circumstances.

I'm glad to have understanding however.

This does not take away the need to be personally safe and not in a bad situation where its abusive or dangerous.

Also in prayer a few years ago, Mother spoke, "Save the children!" And outside that night, the moon had colored clouds laying like a pillow under it, pink colored. Normally clouds at night don't have color. Then suddenly a gust of "wind" stirred the clouds up, it was really energetic and never seen before by me, and they formed beautiful pink wings on both sides of the moon, and I knew this was a miracle and those were angel wings, LOVE WINGS, Save The Children Wings, and then a few minutes later, the same energetic gust occurred and it was back to the pillow at the bottom.

I cherish that memory.

reply to post by summer5


This is the best example I have seen of love here.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. 1 Cor.13:4-8

Every single person on earth, man/woman and child, has the intrinsic right to be safe, to have their own homes and food, no matter what they turn out like, who they are, and if they're sane, or insane, or messed up, or need healing, safety for every single person is a mandatory thing, anything else is a deliberately massive run hellzone since we have all the resources we need for that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
No Matter What Your Politics, Why Is Anyone Living In Poverty?

Those are the ABC's of life.

If he has done you wrong many times, run!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by summer5

 

If you truly love another what would it take to make you stop loving them? Do you really stop loving that person? Or do you just tell yourself you no longer love them?

I normally don't get into these matters... but since I saw this thread...I'll say this

Sometimes it IS possible to wash your hands off a person. Love doesn't have to turn into "hate", but its possible to stop feeling love.

Is love emotions or logic?

IMO, its logic that manifests as emotion that you experience. 2 sides of the same coin... you need both. Emotions without logic spells trouble. Logic without experiencing emotions means nothing.

And also.... being a doormat is not a good idea.
Don't sugar coat a bitter situation. People can be selfish... instead of "giving" to the one who sincerely loves them, they would rather "keep"... or even worse, "take" and not "give back". Don't be stuck on the wrong end of a deal. Recognize who the "takers", "givers" and "keepers" are around you.

My advice : Don't be too much of a "giver" when it comes to "keepers" and "takers".

My two cents.

edit on 30-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Being a "giver" is who I am and always have been. However, I have had my boundaries in the past (why I divorced in the past). IMO I have always been a giver, he has always been a taker. He has "grown" a lot since we met...because of what I have shown and taught him. Is it enough growth for me?....I would say not. No where near where I am today. Does that make him a bad person? No...Does it make me a "better person"?...no....so what does that mean? I have grown (thanks to him)..he has grown(thanks to me)...are we on the same "growth area"....I would say "not yet". Will we ever be? I don't know....THAT remains to be seen.

Originally posted by Unity_99
The doormat issue is a personal one, because some people who find themselves in some odd situations, end up finding there was a reason for it, so you have to do a lot of searching.

Depends what you call doormat. Ie. simply being used nonstop by everyone or one specific person you keep trying to help? Or more often, giving an inch and having someone continually taking a mile from then on around you?

Care takers or givers do tend can attract that more, but if they've been on a spiritual journey for some time, they would never care overly, because they already sense they come from a wonderful abundance, that makes this boot camp pale in comparison, and so its all about being the mature one, trying to assist. Obviously setting boundaries is important. But also deciding what issues are the most important.

And overcoming some human psychology. For example, a foster kid, almost an adult, who didn't stay long anywhere else, though I wanted him to have a safe place, to be safe, instead of Vancouver and possibly homeless, as the ministry was more or less wanting to send him on a bus there, its not easy stuff. He's got core issues, damage, manipulative, and brought lots of weirdness into our house with other kids. And so I was kicking him out, but he fell apart, and I realized. If he were my older child, with those traits, no way would I abandon him, so its just ongoing setting boundaries. In the end, nothing here is coming with me.

I want everyone safe, no matter how many wounds or problems they have.

My father was in a foster home at 2 and he's always had more emotional problems than his older brother, who was in elementary school when his mother became very ill. My dad's core was affected, and he is someone who also manipulates situations, controls others alot, dangles carrots. Doesn't follow through. He grew up in a farming community so he worked hard, unlike this youth, but thats a different set of circumstances.

I'm glad to have understanding however.

This does not take away the need to be personally safe and not in a bad situation where its abusive or dangerous.

Also in prayer a few years ago, Mother spoke, "Save the children!" And outside that night, the moon had colored clouds laying like a pillow under it, pink colored. Normally clouds at night don't have color. Then suddenly a gust of "wind" stirred the clouds up, it was really energetic and never seen before by me, and they formed beautiful pink wings on both sides of the moon, and I knew this was a miracle and those were angel wings, LOVE WINGS, Save The Children Wings, and then a few minutes later, the same energetic gust occurred and it was back to the pillow at the bottom.

I cherish that memory.

edit on 30-12-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

I was adopted when I was an infant. I was always told I was "chosen"...yet as a young child I was told by mother "I wish I could give you back"...what a way to grow up. However, I am past that now. I love her and know she did the best she could. I took some of her hurtful words into my adult life. It has taken me years to realize her words are not who I am. Most of my relationships have been with people I wanted to "fix"...or I thought loved me enough that I wanted to help them see the good in them. Some of them I showed the good in them. Some of them I said "screw you"..I am not putting up with your crap (this was many years ago). Knowing I was "given up for adoption" from a couple months of age...gave me abandonment issues for many years. I am now no longer afraid of those issues. I am quite happy on my own. Would I like a partner?....yes!...do I need one...Hell no!!

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by summer5

 

This is the best example I have seen of love here.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. 1 Cor.13:4-8

THAT is true!! Love is all those things! However, to love ourselves...does that mean to let another hurt us? I think not. To love ourselves means self-respect...If you do not have self-respect you will allow another to walk all over your emotions and feelings. Does not mean you stop loving the other...just means you stand up for YOUR self love. Yes?

Originally posted by Unity_99
Every single person on earth, man/woman and child, has the intrinsic right to be safe, to have their own homes and food, no matter what they turn out like, who they are, and if they're sane, or insane, or messed up, or need healing, safety for every single person is a mandatory thing, anything else is a deliberately massive run hellzone since we have all the resources we need for that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
No Matter What Your Politics, Why Is Anyone Living In Poverty?

Those are the ABC's of life.

I agree, those are the ABC's of life. However, there are boundaries in which each individual has...where does love start and or end? Does it end? No matter what another does to you?

Originally posted by Night Star
If he has done you wrong many times, run!!!!!!!!!!!

I always had that same opinion...And had done it many times in my younger years. However, in my older years I have felt the difference between loving another because I really do love them (despite their differences) vs loving another because of what they gave me.

For me:

Unconditional love means to recognize the inner light, the divine in someone else, indeed in ALL things, regardless of how you view this person. Love does NOT mean being a doormat. You can love someone unconditionally while still placing clear boundaries on what is, and what is not acceptable. After all, you are divine as well, and if someone is treating you poorly, you must not give up your power to them under any circumstance.


If you allow someone to trample you, this is not an expression of love. It is an expression of Ego allowing to be a "victim". It is a low vibration, far distant from that of love.

I didn't grasp what real unconditional love was until my son was born; he could come to me with any problem or choice and I would still understand him or try to with acceptance of who he is. If he said dad I'm gay...my feelings wouldn't change, dad I messed up and killed someone, my feelings wouldn't change.

We are always making choices; and divisions of like, dislike, and neutral moment to moment.

Unconditional love and romantic love; is one in the same...enjoying the other human being for who they are, and encouraging them to be who they want. Everything else is control issues based on ones own expectations they have of the other person; based on some ideal or fantasy...of who they want someone to be.

The doormat; doesn't care who it is, they proclaim love for they just want that ideal...and if they try hard enough maybe they can martyr that out of someone else; usually though, they become passive aggressive and controlling, given the chance.

Someone secure in themselves and where they are going, can set boundaries and stand firm on them...doormats have no boundaries and say stand on me if you want. It's hard to respect, or trust, any creature that acts out of desperation; and tries to be what someone wants them to be, instead of who they are. Real partners stand on the same level, or balance each others strengths or weakness'es given the chance, and tackle problems together if both are familiar with the problem.

People that respect each other; will listen to the others view point, and consider their position on whatever it may be. When there is consideration; but the other is dismissive, then there should be freedom to do whatever in their own way...or else there is an argument; because even though the point was well taken...they felt invalidated when they seek validation of their experience; even if someone else has had a different experience. Then debate ensues; some skillful and tactful and others not.

In relationships; it's wise to balance feelings with rationality and logic...as emotions are usually void of either.