The Modern Approach To Rights: Why You're Helping Destroy Freedom

The Concept of Rights:

What are they?

A Right is a concept developed naturally from the observation of processes outside the control of human machinations or constructs. The long philosophized Natural Law has given foundation to what we conceptualized as rights when this nation was founded in the 18 century. A Right is a basic inheritance of existence. It is a grant by the virtue of your humanity, a gift from God(for you religious folks).

The natural rights of an individual end where the rights of another begin. You have as much of a right to life as your neighbor does. But if your neighbor comes at you with a knife it is your right to preserve your life from his/her attack. So you either fight with your own knife, or a weapon of greater effectiveness to subdue or eliminate the threat to your life. However simply having a weapon does not convey this right, nor does it convey a right or willingness to deprive others of life simply by possessing such a weapon. On the contrary, your right to life is what conveys the right to a weapon of your choosing and it is as inalienable as the right to life.

You have a right to that which you earn, what you make, and what is yours. You have the right to defend that which is yours from those who would deprive you of what you worked for. Your property, to include your body, is not under the jurisdiction of any authority anywhere.

You have the right to express yourself and to associate with those whom you choose. You do not, however, have the right to tell others how they shall express themselves nor with whom they will associate.

You have the right to determine your own life and it's destiny, and to enjoy the fruit it bears.

All of these rights are natural to human beings. They are enshrined in our Constitution, and have been written about by far more intelligent and gifted men than I. But I am not here to give a dissertation on rights or the natural law. I am here to point fingers.

Yep. That's right. I am here to blame you.

These very basic tenets of liberty are so important that many generations of people throughout the ages have fought and bled to one day create a society where they may be realized. No where on Earth is this more close to a reality than in the United States. However, rather than bringing ourselves closer to a truly free society, we have instead created a society of capricious children with a "me first" mentality who place only the weight necessary to hungrily fight for what they think are important rights, and damned be the rights of others.

People have a selective view of rights. They don't care if my right to arms is removed. And if it cannot be removed by legal means, they want my 4th amendment rights taken so that they can see me behind bars. They want my 6th Amendment right and my 8th to be removed so that they can have other people with guns come and take what is mine, so long as they get their way. And they truly think they are safe because they believe they are on the right side, and still entitled to the rights they advocate the destruction of.

I find that view appalling. And it isn't just gun rights. It's speech as well. Everything is ok to talk about except that which you find offensive. Like the recent push on ATS by certain members to have my beloved Weapons and Tactics forum removed because somehow that discussion is insensitive to the Sandy Hook victims. They care not for my rights or the rights of those of us who enjoy the forum. All they care about is their sensibilities and idiosyncrasies, and if they can lobby to have their view canonized, to the detriment of others, they will do so without blinking an eye.

This dynamic of selective defense of the rights of individuals is primarily at fault for the erosion of our rights as a nation. If you are actively taking part is the destruction of our rights, I urge you to reconsider this. Just because it isn't a right you wish for yourself, nor a sensibility you adhere to, does not mean you should infringe upon the right of others, or impose that sensibility upon your fellow human beings.

reply to post by projectvxn


S&F! Well written. Food for thought for sure, for those who are quick to judge others, while at the same time fighting to keep what they believe as their rights!

reply to post by projectvxn

Very eloquently presented. Especially the statement:

Just because it isn't a right you wish for yourself, nor a sensibility you adhere to, does not mean you should infringe upon the right of others, or impose that sensibility upon your fellow human beings.

Thank You

Nice to know someone understands the meaning of freedom. To bad, our country has been taken over by foreign ideas. It's not about freedom anymore, but conquering and tyranny. I hear the same things about freedom of speech and religion. Nobody wants to see religious symbols anymore because they don't like them. They don't care if they make the other person feel better. It's despicable. The world would be a much better place if people would learn to just compromise and enjoy each others differences.

Excellent post and articulation sir, you have hit the nail dead on with this post. The problem in America today is that most people are easily manipulated both mentally and emotional by the United States propaganda machine otherwise known as the main stream media. This is the largest tool the government has to shape our opinions and ideas about what is socially acceptable and when it paints a certain type of person or activity in a bad light, most are quick to condemn that behavior or activity even if it is well within our legal constitutional rights.

Only when the majority realizes there is fundamentally no difference between the left and right factions and there is only agenda pushed and backed by large U.S. corporations and banks by lobbyists for there own personal greed and the immense need to not only keep the power the have but expand upon it, then and only then will people realize why the media in this country has become so dangerous and why accepting it as fact and calling for the removal of any right guaranteed by the constitution is a slap in the face to our forefathers and is just down right not in line with what being an actual American citizen is about.

Freedom tends to consume itself when a given population is either wrongly educated or not educated at all. Mass knee jerk reactions are a sure sign of this. People just lack the mental tools to critically think things sufficiently through enough to see basic un-intended consequences.

Edit to add:
Very good post. You are obviously one of the correctly educated ones. Keep up the good fight.

a very well thought out and well articulated post. i don't agree with you in the least, but a great an informative post none the less. thank you for sharing.

Rights are great. People are f'in crazy.

It's a problem.

First of all, GREAT thread.

Simple enough concept but, apparantly this phenomenon is part of what makes us "human" whatever that is.

Do whatever the F you want as long as it doesn't PYSICALLY hurt anyone else or their property.



You could take a thousand people who agree with you wholeheartedly and start your very own community on a far away deserted Island Paradise and within 20 years, you would be right back to where you were when you left the mainland.
It is inescapeable. It rises up withini us very quickly and silently until, before you know it, one day you are triyng to get legislation passed making it illegal for people to ingest or inhale things INTO THIER OWN BODIES!!!!!!!
Because YOU don't like it.

It really all comes down to fear.
People become afraid, due in no small part to our governments and media keeping us collectively in a perpetual state of fear, and they want to EASE that fear because???

Because WHO the F wants to live their lives in fear?

So, someone proposes a solution to ease the collective fear.
Inevitably this "solution" entails removing some freedoms "for the good of the whole"
Once we start THAT ball rolling, it is only a matter of time before people start resenting their freedoms and WANT....no.....INSIST that they be removed....you know.....for the good of the group.

Well, here we are.
Don't you all feel so FREE and SAFE???

I know I do.

I just can't wait until they take away my "right" to wipe my own ass without a permit.
You think I am kidding but, there really is NO end to how rediculous this line of reasoning can become.
It is no holds barred once the ball starts rolling and fear is at an all time high.

There really could come a day where, after enough fear mongering about diseases and deaths, throw in some children and puppies and you could actually convince people that, the best solution to keep us all safe, is to regulate ass wiping and tax the HELL out of toilet paper as a way to discourage the wiping of asses and ENCOURAGE and promote the use of Bedays.

Originally posted by david99118
a very well thought out and well articulated post. i don't agree with you in the least, but a great an informative post none the less. thank you for sharing.

edit on 30-12-2012 by david99118 because: (no reason given)

Your response is rather vague.

In the spirit of discussion it would behoove you to be more specific.

reply to post by projectvxn



Great post.

Last year I was in Istanbul and asked a young man how it was that everybody there, Jews, Christians, and Muslims, got along so well.

His answer: they have one philosophy, "my life is my life, your life is your life."

When it comes to gun control you do not have a right to infringe on my right to protect myself. If you hate guns, fine, don't buy them. That doesn't mean you can mitigate my rights because of how you fear I might behave.

That's the argument that's been used to justify every form of tyranny. Create a fear, then take away freedom in the name of removing the fear.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Your property, to include your body, is not under the jurisdiction of any authority anywhere
Just because it isn't a right you wish for yourself, nor a sensibility you adhere to, does not mean you should infringe upon the right of others, or impose that sensibility upon your fellow human beings.

Ah yes, Eloquently written and as Usual, Hypocritical , when Defending "your guns"

It is the same people who are Anti-Women Right to Choose, that are Vehemently Defending the Gun Issue.

Heres a Game Op , use your 2 Quotes above, to defend your Guns.... now use those SAME WORDS , but Apply them to a Womens Right to Choose..and there is the Hypocrisy......

reply to post by Tw0Sides


You assume an awful lot about me.

While I personally do not approve of abortion as a practice, I do not believe that it has no place in society. I do not want To ban the practice because unlike anti gunners push to ban guns, I see the consequences of what banning abortion would be.

Just like banning guns would create a more powerful criminal element and leave the law abiding at the mercy of criminals and criminal governments, outlawing abortion would drive the practice underground and put countless lives in needless danger.

I don't have to personally agree with or practice something that you do. But you no more have the right to take my guns than I have the right to decide what is right for unwanted pregnancy or rape victims.

Personal choices come with the responsibility of dealing with the consequences.

I agree 100% with your definition of "rights". but your point is confusing.

if a thing is true, it cannot be made (through FORCE) to be true. truth is self-evident and does not need to be defended. this is the true nature of rights, as we both seem to agree.

why then do you insist we must use FORCE to defend our rights?


now, I am not stupid. I understand that biology (survival of the fittest), and history, are in your favor. but I am a blind idealist, something that has been afforded to me by, allegedly, that same thing I am here arguing against. I am, of course, concerned that "they" are trying to "take our guns". but I would never use a gun, not even in self defense.

so all I am really saying is that our modern world, like your argument, is intrinsically flawed. most people appear to be okay with that.

I am not.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Just like banning guns would create a more powerful criminal element and leave the law abiding at the mercy of criminals and criminal governments,

Well lets see.
There are what, 250,000,000 guns in the US.
One would be lead to Believe that the US must be the Safest Country on the Globe to Live already.

And the "criminal government" excuse.. Please man, thats the Lamest excuse the Gun Lobby pushes.

reply to post by tgidkp


Flawed is the very nature of human beings. It is the reason for the concept of the right to life and the protection of it. While rights are a truth that should not need defense, in an ideal world of course, reality tells us that the very same nature that endow humans with rights of the living, is the nature that allows man to fall for the trappings of power. That dynamic is the yin and the yang and the very reason we endeavored to create a system that recognized both the evil and the good in mankind.

Nature has built in checks and balances. It is in the attempt to defy and centrally control how these checks and balances are fulfilled in our lives that we run into the problem of tyranny.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by projectvxn
Just like banning guns would create a more powerful criminal element and leave the law abiding at the mercy of criminals and criminal governments,

Well lets see.
There are what, 250,000,000 guns in the US.
One would be lead to Believe that the US must be the Safest Country on the Globe to Live already.

And the "criminal government" excuse.. Please man, thats the Lamest excuse the Gun Lobby pushes.

edit on 31-12-2012 by Tw0Sides because: (no reason given)

I am under no illusion that criminals would exist with or without guns.

With that many guns, the anti gunners would have you believe that the country should already be at war. But it isn't. Perhaps the guns and our right to them isn't the real problem in society?

And history has shown time and time again what happens to people once a governments bent on accretion of more power disarm the people.

reply to post by Tw0Sides


BTW thank you for being a glaring example of the kind of person I was speaking to in the OP. You want your rights no matter what, but my rights? To hell with them right?

What should it matter to you how they are taken away as long as they are right?

reply to post by projectvxn


so we are (sort of) in agreement.

then why are you "pointing the finger at me"?

you see inaction as complacency and (the horror!) entitlement. I see it as affirmation of the noble truth. whether or not the average american is cognizant of such, I really do believe that people are done fighting. all of the mocked-up wars and rat race. people know its a sham. they're tired of it. I think that's a good thing.

the bad part is that, likely, as soon as their own lives are on the line, the survival impulse will kick in. but i honestly believe that if we actively seek peace through pacifism, we can achieve it. if your response is that i should be the first to volunteer, my response is: so be it. I would rather die than accept the conflict that you have brushed aside so swiftly (in your last post).

well said.

along with these "rights" that are trampled by others and it is also a right is equality. everyone should be considered equal, yet in reality only certain "groups" seem to have that right. many people over the years and over the planet have worked hard and even lost their lives so that ALL people should be considered equal. yet all that it seemingly has achieved is a reversal of those who are "more equal" than others. the trend in north america and likely a lot of other places i am not so familiar with is that instead of making everyone count the same, that those who were the underdogs are now given the very preferential treatment that the so called majority once had.

a major example of this is within the workforce. once if you were a white male you had a much greater chance of having a good job and being well paid for it. i will agree that this was not proper. the thing is tho that now instead of EVERYONE having the same chance at this, that those who were minorities and woman now are given that treatment. a white male doesn't have a real chance at the same thing. i know one case where there were two applicants that rose to the top of the heap for the same position. one was a white male the other was a "minority" female. now after looking at everything involved the male was hired as he was better suited for the position. this is how it should be, the best qualified person got the job. unfortunately so called "equality" got in the way. what happened is the other applicant went to the human rights board and cried foul. that the male was hired BECAUSE he was a white male, and that she was NOT hired instead because she was an ethnic female the board then DEMANDED that the male be dismissed and the female hired in his place.

i myself was out looking for work years back. there were many times as i would drop off a resume and application that the person accepting it would kinda laugh as i handed it in and a few even asked me what hope i thought i had about getting the job. this was without even LOOKING at the resume and application. the first few times i stated that i thought i should have a decent chance as i felt i was a good candidate for the job. i was then told that in reality I HAD NO CHANCE as i would not fill any needed "quotas" of minorities that they needed and by hiring me that they would have issues because of equality laws. that they needed to hire ONLY minorities because of the fact that they were "imbalanced" in regards to the race and sex of people working for them currently and that needed to be corrected with new hires. how was this EQUAL treatment? in fact even the government at about that time started advertising in the papers for governmental positions with the caveat that WHITE MALES NEED NOT APPLY.

even worse than that over the years talking to people if this topic came up, the general reaction was that this is only right as for many years white males had the edge and so it is only right that it should be the opposite now. so much for my right to a fair chance at a job.

like the OP stated one person's right should end at another person's rights. sadly tho this is not how things are, instead a person's right is only good so far as it does not conflict with SOME peoples IDEALS. a case in point is prayer/religion in schools. sure i will agree that religion should not be forced upon those who do not wish it. but to go so far as to outlaw prayer entirely, is trampling on someone's right to practice their religion. i am not talking about something like a class saying the lords prayer for example (that would be hurting someones right to their own religion or lack thereof), but even a student praying on their own is outlawed. or even the WORD prayer or other reference to religion is taboo.