US, Russia plunging into new Cold War..

The Brink of Another Cold War...

Tit-for-tat moves between Russia and the US are plunging the two nations into a new Cold War, says Russia expert Stephen Cohen. Washington’s longtime policy towards Moscow is to blame for the growing tensions. The ‘reset’ in relations between the United States and Russia is dead, as the Obama administration has never truly cooperated with Moscow, instead pushing the same policy Washington has been imposing on Russia for the past 20 years. “That policy is advancing NATO toward Russia’s borders, building missile defense on Russia’s borders, interfering in Russia’s internal politics,”

Stephen F. Cohen – professor of Russian Studies and History at New York University and Princeton University told RT. RT: After the US Senate passed the controversial [Magnitsky] bill, Russia accused Washington of engaging in 'Cold War tactics'. Now that Moscow has retaliated, how would you describe the two countries' relations? Stephen Cohen: Increasingly we are plunging into a new Cold War. But it’s not a surprise. The story of the orphans doesn’t begin with the Magnitsky Bill. Number of us in the United States have been warning since the 1990s – nearly 20 years – that unless Washington changed its policy, its kind of winner-take-all policy after the Cold War policy toward Moscow, that we would drift toward Cold War, not toward the partnership we all hoped for 20 years ago. This is just the last stage I wouldn’t say it’s inevitable. But even though the tragedy of those orphans already adopted in effect who now will not be able to join their families in America is foremost in our minds – especially on the Christmas Eve and the eve of the New Year. A real honest, analytical approach by an American patriot – as I am – is that Washington bears a large part of responsibly because of the policies it pursued toward Moscow. And what we saw in the Russian Duma and in the Russian Higher House – the Federal Assembly – when virtually every deputy voted in favor of the ban on American adoption, which was just signed by Putin, is an outburst of pent-up of anti-American feeling in Moscow which has been caused not only, but in large measure by American policy.

The US, and Russia seem to have hostile intentions and this "reset" isn't working.. I don't want to pick sides but US is antagonizing Russia, but for what.. is Russia Scared? This missile defense shield across NATO countries has them thinking it's toward them, it could be. But I really think these two countries should get along, Another cold war could be scary, Look at the last cold war, it was near Nuclear death.. This time it could get serious, the US couldn't handle another cold war, it would demolish it's economy, or would it give more jobs? Either way, I think this is stupid, and both these countries should work together and side by side, cause I'm telling you from the Past, another cold war would be devastating now a days with the advanced technology each country possess..





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We already played the "nuke scare tactics" with each other and we both looked like bitches. It won't be a stand off this time. Each country will set off their biggest bomb in the pacific and there will be only losers I mean after the tsunamis they create and all.

That would be a shame, we're about to welcome a Russian Comrade into our family.

They seriously need to stop comparing sizes and start comparing information, it's getting a bit boring trying to pander to such egos, when there are more important things to consider.

The reality is they are extremely insecure and afraid, both for different reasons.

Just a guess

Both China and Russia are accusing the USA of starting a new Cold War. Hell, China believes there is one playing out now...their government said so (last i read). All due to the USA's policies in the Pacific, and the claims of cyber espionage (which is most probably true lol)...


All countries involved need a change of attitude.

what they really need to do is get along, it would be nice to have Russia as a Ally and not an enemy, America is very arrogant.. I hate to say it, but they can be hit with a surprise, I don't want it to happen as I live in Canada, and we will get hit also.

I think only reason why US doesn't want Russia in on the missile defense is cause they want to attack Iran and other countries and in order to do that, they have to protect them selves from Russia and China as they know they wont be in on it.. Only reason why I think they don't want Russia in on it.. And it's pure nonsense, something that can be avoided.. But US and other countries are running out of resources and this could be the only cause for aggression, as seen with China. As China is running low on resources.. As said, Anyone would do anything to survive, so lets hope this doesn't get ugly but lets hope for the best, but plan for the worst

I'd say Russia is no one's victim and they are by far, not weak. They still form a landmass stretching from Atlantic to Pacific and are along side us in Nuclear forces.....if not in tech, than in number and he's got new Subs, ICBM's and Bombers ordered or entering service now depending on which. I sure hope Obama's ready for the big game because Putin was a serving Colonel in the K.G.B. of the Soviet Union. He's old school and no peacenik.

Putin served 15 years as a foreign intelligence officer for the KGB (Committee for State Security), including six years in Dresden, East Germany. In 1990 he retired from active KGB service with the rank of lieutenant colonel and returned to Russia to become prorector of Leningrad State University with responsibility for the institution’s external relations.

15 Years. That puts him as an Officer in the KGB going back to 1975. Obama was literally partying when Putin was learning the business of being an intelligence officer.

In July 1998 Pres. Boris Yeltsin made Putin director of the Federal Security Service (the KGB’s domestic successor), and shortly thereafter he became secretary of the influential Security Council. Yeltsin, who was searching for an heir to assume his mantle, appointed Putin prime minister in 1999.

Source

If John Kerry as Sec State is our A game...I have a bad feeling for the outcome. Obama's a community oriented thinker and social engineer type of guy. Putin worked the pointy end of Intelligence Operations or directly ran the whole thing for a good part of his adult life. The two aren't even in the same stadium for this game. I hope Putin isn't terribly ambitious and is happy with what Russia has. Err...

reply to post by live2beknown

I personally believe that its a lot of posturing. At the end of the day, most governments are in bed with each other.

Because of the US' staggering debt, I think Russia could deal a near fatal death blow almost over night if they really wanted to via a currency war.

We saw what happened when Georgia, backed by the US, attacked Ossetia. Russia wasnt having any of it and within a matter of days, hammered them into retreat.

The US would never directly attack a nation which could actually defend itself.

reply to post by gladtobehere


I think any war will be economic. China, russia, iran team up. China goes after that island. If the USA steps in the Russians say let china do what it will do. If we disagree they cut us off of oil. The middle east will sell to china to fuel their military efforts since America would have to pull our resources home. We don't produce enough fuel to support our military with our direct ME supply. China will take the island and the USA can do nothing but watch it happen or use missiles which is world war.

Might seem impossible but it is very possible.

"New Cold War"?

When did the "Old" one end?

It's the same song and dance, with maybe a few new dancers on the floor.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
The US would never attack a nation which could actually defend itself.

edit on 29-12-2012 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

Even the nations that the USA does attack end up pushing them out.

Korea, Vietnam and Iraq just to name a few.

Originally posted by daaskapital
Both China and Russia are accusing the USA of starting a new Cold War. Hell, China believes there is one playing out now...their government said so (last i read). All due to the USA's policies in the Pacific, and the claims of cyber espionage (which is most probably true lol)...


All countries involved need a change of attitude.

edit on 29-12-2012 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)

It's tough for the US to be friendly towards Russia when Russia sides against the US on nearly every position imaginable. The US isn't perfect either, but it's clear Russia is not interested in cooperation. Neither is China. China is just far too weak to take on the US so they wage the only kind of warfare they can, cyber-war. China's positions on Nan-Hai, Sendaku, and their claim to territorial waters in Asian oceans is a sign they are not interested in any sort of peace.

Originally posted by live2beknown
what they really need to do is get along, it would be nice to have Russia as a Ally and not an enemy, America is very arrogant.. I hate to say it, but they can be hit with a surprise, I don't want it to happen as I live in Canada, and we will get hit also.

I think only reason why US doesn't want Russia in on the missile defense is cause they want to attack Iran and other countries and in order to do that, they have to protect them selves from Russia and China as they know they wont be in on it.. Only reason why I think they don't want Russia in on it.. And it's pure nonsense, something that can be avoided.. But US and other countries are running out of resources and this could be the only cause for aggression, as seen with China. As China is running low on resources.. As said, Anyone would do anything to survive, so lets hope this doesn't get ugly but lets hope for the best, but plan for the worst

edit on 29-12-2012 by live2beknown because: (no reason given)

Russia and China together would last a few weeks against a US assault before they were in ruins. The only sort of surprise attack that could hurt the US would be a pre-emptive nuclear strike. It MAY work, or may fail. US retaliation either way would mean whatever country responsible would be the new leader in exporting glass. No country capable of hitting the US would do it.

If Russia sided with the US on Iran (which is not caving to the US it's simply doing what is right) it would go a long ways. They won't. They are more interested in hurting the US than doing the right thing. Just so we are clear, the US does not always do the right thing, and has had it's share of mistakes.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'd say Russia is no one's victim and they are by far, not weak. They still form a landmass stretching from Atlantic to Pacific and are along side us in Nuclear forces.....if not in tech, than in number and he's got new Subs, ICBM's and Bombers ordered or entering service now depending on which. I sure hope Obama's ready for the big game because Putin was a serving Colonel in the K.G.B. of the Soviet Union. He's old school and no peacenik.

Putin served 15 years as a foreign intelligence officer for the KGB (Committee for State Security), including six years in Dresden, East Germany. In 1990 he retired from active KGB service with the rank of lieutenant colonel and returned to Russia to become prorector of Leningrad State University with responsibility for the institution’s external relations.

15 Years. That puts him as an Officer in the KGB going back to 1975. Obama was literally partying when Putin was learning the business of being an intelligence officer.

In July 1998 Pres. Boris Yeltsin made Putin director of the Federal Security Service (the KGB’s domestic successor), and shortly thereafter he became secretary of the influential Security Council. Yeltsin, who was searching for an heir to assume his mantle, appointed Putin prime minister in 1999.

Source

If John Kerry as Sec State is our A game...I have a bad feeling for the outcome. Obama's a community oriented thinker and social engineer type of guy. Putin worked the pointy end of Intelligence Operations or directly ran the whole thing for a good part of his adult life. The two aren't even in the same stadium for this game.

I hope Putin isn't terribly ambitious and is happy with what Russia has. Err...

edit on 29-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction.

I completely agree with your assessment of Obama. He came glose to giving them the details on the Aegis Missile Defense System. You know, the thing that protects EVERY carrier group. How did morons re-elect him?

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by live2beknown

 

I personally believe that its a lot of posturing. At the end of the day, most governments are in bed with each other.

Because of the US' staggering debt, I think Russia could deal a near fatal death blow almost over night if they really wanted to via a currency war.

Although we saw what happened when Georgia, backed by the US, attacked Ossetia. Russia wasnt having any of it and within a matter of days, hammered them into retreat.

The US would never attack a nation which could actually defend itself.

edit on 29-12-2012 by gladtobehere because: (no reason given)

Georgia was not backed by the US. That is why they received no US aid. Russia can not defend itself. The US would have it's way with Russia with ease.

How is Russia going to hurt the US via currency war? You have shown you have no knowledge of economics, or military strength of the countries involved.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Russia and China together would last a few weeks against a US assault before they were in ruins. The only sort of surprise attack that could hurt the US would be a pre-emptive nuclear strike. It MAY work, or may fail. US retaliation either way would mean whatever country responsible would be the new leader in exporting glass. No country capable of hitting the US would do it.

It may just really be how I grew up and knowing the U.S.S.R. as a direct enemy targeting my community personally (living in Southern California was living in a "total overkill zone" as I recall it euphemistically called) but I never lost respect for them as an adversary. The last nation to do that, ironically, is also the last nation to ignorantly open wars on two completely separate fronts at once. Both mistakes cost Germany everything in World War II and Russia hasn't been our friend since about the end of it as it happens.... The 90's were just a nice break and their Navy rusted down in number quite nicely. The bear is waking back up though and if it chooses, it can replace all that junk pretty quick I'd imagine.



All things considered, it's quite a boat...and he's publicly vowed patrols again year around with a growing fleet of them.

I will agree with one thing. IF the United States Military were simply released and allowed to fight by being told "That way! Get there, win and call when you're done". Yes... The U.S. could do amazing things and in very short time. The problem is....That hasn't happened since Truman pink slipped MacArthur during Korea. The details are OT and I don't dispute the logic necessarily ...but it is about the last time the Military was allowed to simply fight to win and win to come home. It worked much better that way... Indeed. I can't see why it would suddenly change back to that now though. If anything..the micromanaging and political battlefield control is worse than ever by keeping up on tech and developments.

reply to post by live2beknown


Does anyone notice that USA keeps "needing" to bomb countries, while
Russia and China have no such need.

Does anyone wonder why that is ??

What's the problem with US and Russia ??

Well good ol USA wants to bomb Syrian and Iran next, Russia and China do NOT

If I need to simplify, let me know,

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

The bear is waking back up though and if it chooses, it can replace all that junk pretty quick I'd imagine.



All things considered, it's quite a boat...and he's publicly vowed patrols again year around with a growing fleet of them.

It would take them years, 20 to 30 of constant building to put up any resistance to the US Navy. Without being able to defeat our Navy, neither country can force project, leaving us able to pick them apart.

Things can change. Maybe they will. As it stands the US Armed Forces would annihilate both Russia and China in a convincing, and quick, fashion. I agree, I would never underestimate them, that would be a mistake.

Considering the PLA was put on alert and warned to be ready to fight regional war.s... just recently,
They have claimed territory that isnt theirs , and annexed tibet etc...id say China has been at war with the rest of the world for a long time...
They do not consider themselves to be waging peace by any means.
Russia and America are the two shoes of the illuminatti bankers...they shuffle the two along in fits and starts to keep the illusion going....
However they will not be tangling together any time soon...
Chinas the bugaboo

reply to post by OccamsRazor04
Well... We do agree on the potential if unleashed... I'll just say I don't see that happening. If, God Forbid, we found ourselves looking directly at Russian flagged forces? Obama would blink and back down in my opinion..... If he didn't, he'd be destroyed in terms of the battlefield being engaged. I feel that way for two reasons. First, Russia and China don't have the overpowering, sheer arrogance we've developed since 9/11. They wouldn't allow an engagement to "just happen" and it would happen under terms as close to 100% favorable to them as possible.

.....say....while we're in Northern Iran and just a hundred miles or so from the soil of the Russian Federation. I mean it's incredible to imagine but if we do this thing against Iran (nothing there changed...it's worse if anything. The media just focused on something else for reporting is all) we'll actually have U.S.combat aircraft INSIDE the engagement range of domestic Russian air defense systems. That'll be a first and if nothing else, should give Russians an education like never before possible of watching..in extreme detail..what we do and how we do it. I mean, Far Northern Iran is precisely like Cuba for distance to Russian territory. Interesting indeed...

Now the other reason? Well.... To add to what I said on the other one? What worries me is simply this.... Sure, we SHOULD be able to defeat Russia ...sure, we SHOULD be able to defeat China ... IF it ever came to that. However, we SHOULD have been able to handle a big street fight in Somalia in 1993 too. We should have been able to fight, win and see a GOOD end result for Iraq. Afghanistan never should have even BEEN a war sinceCIA and Northern Alliance forces had Bin Laden cornered and running like a madman for his life in December of 2011....... Bush told the CIA "Thanks....now leave ...Marines will do this instead" ...and thus turned a HIGHLY successful surgical operation into a war we've all but lost.

If we can't win Iraq and we can't win Afghanistan....not by lack of ability but by lack of national will, political leadership and intelligence among those giving orders from Washington....just what hope do we EVER have with the same leadership against REAL enemies...Honest to god REAL national powers who CAN and WILL actually fight back? We haven't had an enemy even physically capable of fighting in any sense that matters since 1990...and even then, as it happened, that army was a cake walk. It took political grandstanding for "100 Hour" picture perfect endings to screw it up there.

I have complete respect for Russia as an adversary and as a political power. Never underestimate Russia. That said, and with full realization that they stand opposite us on Syria and Iran, a new *cold* war with Russia would benefit the U.S.

All those nasty expensive wars we have been fighting for the past decade would never have gone down like that with a strong Soviet sphere of influence still in play. We cannot police the whole world and we really need to stop trying. With the Russians back in the game on a global scale we can get out of the "world order" business. In a knick of time too.

A new cold war gives them options to do things without concern about how the west would view it. There are opportunities here on both sides. And, between the U.S., Russia, and Canada wouldn't that be most of the world's decent farmland? It may not seem supremely important now but as the climate continues to change I think it possible that actual geography will once again play a more primary role in decision making and the shared resource of fertility will give these three players something in common. They wouldn't have to admit to working together on the world stage, it would actually make their policies easier for them if they were seen to be at odds and forced to do things as a result.

I don't think that the war would go hot (I certainly hope not) and it could provided some economic boundaries to back peddle on global free trade, which, imho, is the only way to save the middle class in the western world!