Lost stratospheric aerosol geo engineering pilots over rural Australia

Since there has never a sampling done showing that ANY plane WAS spraying chemials, how can someone make a conclusive statement that ALL long lasting trails are spayed chemicals?

Why are ALL the chemicals and resultant long lasting clouds the same color as regular clouds? Ever since the first reportings of chemtrails the color has been white.

Originally posted by BrBen
reply to post by flyswatter

 

If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it swims like a duck it is probably a duck. Why would you want more proof?

It is to you what you believe it to be and even if a dna sample were taken you still would not believe it is a duck.

Why should I spend my money on a dna sample when obviously it is a duck.

Each individual is entitled to their own belief and should be allowed to hold that belief without ridicule from others. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

As for being contrails commercial airliners sometimes do produce contrails but they do not last long for they are water vapor. Chemtrails linger they expand and can cover a large portion of the sky. They do not evaporate like contrails because they consist of compounds designed for a specific purpose. What they are made up of and what is the purpose is not important for me to know, commercial airliners do not fly in circles and their contrails vanish rather quickly.

Commercial passenger airlines hire pilots who are trained and experienced they do not get lost. The airline companies would not hire a pilot that was incompetent and if one ever would fly in circles trying to figure out where he was he would not fly again, fuel is expensive, planes are too expensive and law suits can lead to bankruptcy.

2 Cor 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

I believe it is a duck.

Br Ben

If you honestly believe that a contrail is made up solely of water vapor, and you honestly believe that a contrail cannot persist, then I suggest more reading on the subject. There are many links that have been provided over countless numbers of threads. You can learn a great deal about contrails. There's also your friend Google. Take some time, learn a bit about contrails and atmospheric science, and get back to us.

As far as having an opinion, you're right - people have every right in the world to have their opinion. But when one puts their opinion on a site such as ATS for others to read, those others also have every right to voice their opinion about it. See, it works both ways.

Originally posted by fireyaguns
A couple of week’s back I witnessed two stratospheric aerosol geo engineering planes above our farming area and they both appeared to be lost.

If they were in the stratosphere then a) you wouldn't have seen them and b) they wouldn't have produced visible contrails since they would have been above the troposphere.

Though their exhust may have led to noctilucent clouds, as has been suggested has been the case with space shuttles

'nuff said.


PS what aircraft do we have that can fly that high?

There was a discussion on Metabunk about odd contrails in Australia. Might be near where you were. There were some high altitude holds approaching Brisbane, SE Queensland.

metabunk.org...



It's fairly common, as Brisbane gets backed up easily, so they put traffic in holds quite a distance from the airport, before they descend.

reply to post by fireyaguns

Stratospheric aerosol geo engineering trails must be stopped now

Using our atmosphere as a free-for-all laboratory is, imo, criminal. Respiratory failure is an increasing cause of death. For young and old alike. Breathing chemtrails is dangerous to our health. Exertion, within that environment, I believe, aggravates it.

I use a tea recommended to me by an herbologist as a mucus eliminator. Recent years have seen pre-packaged herbs contaminated with heavy metals so care needs to be taken as to source. Best to grow your own if you can.

Thank you for speaking out. Many happy returns of the New Year.

Originally posted by BrBen
reply to post by flyswatter

 

If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it swims like a duck it is probably a duck. Why would you want more proof?

Because people who say that trails that look like contrails, are generated like contrails and behave like contrails are not contrails.

So I want to know how they know that they are not contrails - why is that so wrong?

Each individual is entitled to their own belief and should be allowed to hold that belief without ridicule from others. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Sure - but you are not entitled for your opinion to be correct or true.

As for being contrails commercial airliners sometimes do produce contrails but they do not last long for they are water vapor.

That is absolute rubbish - it is an outright lie.

contrails are water vapour, as are clouds, and just like clouds they will persist for exactly as long as atmospheric conditions allow.

They have been specifically measured as persisting, as contrails, for as long as 17 hours

Chemtrails linger they expand and can cover a large portion of the sky.

Chemtrails can't be shown to exist in the first place, and even the guy who made "What in the world are they spraying" and "Why in the world are they spraying" says it is not rue - that persistent contrails exist and that you cannot differentiate between contrails and "chemtrails" except by chemical analysis of the trail itself.



And no one has actually bothered to do any such analysis!!

commercial airliners do not fly in circles and their contrails vanish rather quickly.

Two lies - commercial airliners OFTEN "fly in circles" for several possible reasons - holding patterns are the most common, but also on test flights they may fly such patterns/

Commercial passenger airlines hire pilots who are trained and experienced they do not get lost. The airline companies would not hire a pilot that was incompetent and if one ever would fly in circles trying to figure out where he was he would not fly again, fuel is expensive, planes are too expensive and law suits can lead to bankruptcy.

Pilots fly where they are told by air traffic control - if they are required to spend a little time in a holding pattern they will do so without any bother at all.

\Airlines know this and factor such fuel burn into their average costs.

Wherever you have been getting you information about aviation - sack them - they do not know what they are talking about and are leading you to look ignorant.

FYI not that i believe or disbelieve the assertions of the OP.....i think if two aircraft are fooling around in close proximity they will be at differing altitudes for safety......

its been my contention that" fuel additives" could be put in regular flights tanks to create such contrails without spray equipment.
No that it is proven but thatits possible....
The Hp Chi Minh trail was soaked with a longer monsoon by the airforce to stop traffic on it.....this is doccumented....so weather mods are not some "paper patent" but real and ongoing programs.....
Whether they are spraying barium or whatever for radio or haarp experiments or whatnot, it is still going on.....
australias flood and drought siituation could be the results of concentrated efforts to manufacture weather.....just saying...cause i dont live there....but the fires were devastating, maybe the floods were man made? or vice versa

Originally posted by BrBen
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Each individual is entitled to their own belief and should be allowed to hold that belief without ridicule from others. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

This is true. It is unfortunate though if someone bases their opinion on lies, do you not agree?

As for being contrails commercial airliners sometimes do produce contrails but they do not last long for they are water vapor. Chemtrails linger they expand and can cover a large portion of the sky. They do not evaporate like contrails because they consist of compounds designed for a specific purpose. What they are made up of and what is the purpose is not important for me to know, commercial airliners do not fly in circles and their contrails vanish rather quickly.

You see, right there, someone lied to you.

Are you aware that temperatures at the heights threse trails are formed are extremely cold, -30 or -40 degrees is pretty standard, and you know what happens to water at those temperatures don't you. There is certainly no evaporation happening, not ever, even when the trails are short lived. Have you asked yourself why clouds can linger all day? If they can why can't contrails? It has been recorded for decades how contrails can persist and spread. There are many different and independant sources. Is this something you read or were told and just believed?

Its not only temperature of course, but do you understand or could you check to your own satisfaction this first part?

So you see it is not enough to simply say that what is in a persisting trail is not important to know. If you are claiming that trail is not a contrail then it is VERY important to know, it is vital. Have you even considered how any aircraft could possibly CARRY enough chemicals to lay those long thick persisting trails if they are indeed chemtrails? Or is that a question you avoid?

You can easily discover that airliners fly in circles, and the reasons why all by yourself very quickly. This again smacks more of something you were told or read somewhere and didn't bother to check before deciding you believed it.

Commercial passenger airlines hire pilots who are trained and experienced they do not get lost. The airline companies would not hire a pilot that was incompetent and if one ever would fly in circles trying to figure out where he was he would not fly again, fuel is expensive, planes are too expensive and law suits can lead to bankruptcy.

Who says anyone was lost? Planes land as and when they are told. If they have to wait then they aren't going to go zooming off for a joyride, they hold, in a circular pattern, until its their turn. Any resource on airports or air traffic will confirm this for you.

So, you see, I am not talking about your opinion, or belief. That is something only you can decide. But dont just accept what others are telling you (me included if you like), cross check claims as much as you can from as many different sources as you can. Also try and understand if that source is itself leaning towards any particular agenda or whether it is simply being factual, and then base your opinion and belief on what you think of it all.

Originally posted by Uncinus
There was a discussion on Metabunk about odd contrails in Australia. Might be near where you were. There were some high altitude holds approaching Brisbane, SE Queensland.

metabunk.org...

It's fairly common, as Brisbane gets backed up easily, so they put traffic in holds quite a distance from the airport, before they descend.

What is seen here is almost accurate other than the plane was leaving a trail from way out west circled as the picture above shows in the area the picture shows but once it ran out of trail it returned west.
The second plane from the north returned north but it doesn’t show on the metabunk picture. Both planes were spraying at the same time towards the end of the first planes departure.


The airport is east, neither plane came from or went to the airport.

They came.
They sprayed.
They left the way they came.

standard procedure. plane enters area, circles to take the 'before' samples / check air currents, then deploys.
the third, non-aerosol plane takes the 'after' air samples.

by the way, there is no 'spraying'. it's a fuel additive that is spread via the jet exhaust.

keep us posted. this is a UN project, currently being tested over remote areas. I understand they hope to start on major cities spring 2013.






Certified Stratospheric Aerosol Geo-Engineer

Originally posted by works4dhs

by the way, there is no 'spraying'. it's a fuel additive that is spread via the jet exhaust.

What additive is that?

keep us posted. this is a UN project,

And you know this because of what??

currently being tested over remote areas.

So how come it is being seen over populated areas all over the world??

I understand they hope to start on major cities spring 2013.

And what is your understanding based on?

reply to post by luxordelphi


So you want to eliminate all cars, buses, trucks, RV's, and trains?

*the additive is a heavy sodium deriviative. don't know the exact formula.
*previous urban operations desensitize the public to the actual ops.
*how do I know? I has access. I work4dhs.


...or am I bluffing?

reply to post by fireyaguns

They came.
They sprayed.
They left the way they came.

exactly the same could be said about these so called debunkers!

in both cases crap is being sprayed.

ignore them but note carefully: you dids not call them chemtrails or even used the word
yet here are the usual suspects with the same arguments and the same skirting the T&C insults.

SRM Patent: patft.uspto.gov.../50031 86&RS=PN/5003186
Montana SRM Ethics Page: www.umt.edu...
EDF SRM: solutions.edf.org...
EDF SRM Vimeo: vimeo.com...
SRMGI: www.srmgi.org...
SRM Image: justmeint.files.wordpress.com...

fight back with orgone! educate-yourself.org...

Originally posted by fireyaguns

Originally posted by Uncinus
There was a discussion on Metabunk about odd contrails in Australia. Might be near where you were. There were some high altitude holds approaching Brisbane, SE Queensland.

metabunk.org...

It's fairly common, as Brisbane gets backed up easily, so they put traffic in holds quite a distance from the airport, before they descend.

What is seen here is almost accurate other than the plane was leaving a trail from way out west circled as the picture above shows in the area the picture shows but once it ran out of trail it returned west.
The second plane from the north returned north but it doesn’t show on the metabunk picture. Both planes were spraying at the same time towards the end of the first planes departure.


The airport is east, neither plane came from or went to the airport.

They came.
They sprayed.
They left the way they came.

Was it on Dec 4th?



The things is the planes were descending as they exited the pattern, so they may well have descended below contrail altitude as they were flying away from you, and then flown back over you without a contrail, so practically invisible.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by fireyaguns

 

SRM Patent: patft.uspto.gov.../50031 86&RS=PN/5003186

th "welsbach patent" - how come you never post any evidence that anyone is actually using it??

And of course it is not secret....

Montana SRM Ethics Page: www.umt.edu...

And what is it you think this is evidence of, other than people ar concerned about hte moral implicatoins of Geo-engineering??

EDF SRM: solutions.edf.org...
EDF SRM Vimeo: vimeo.com...
SRMGI: www.srmgi.org...

More people concerned that geo-engineering should not be allowed to proceed without some sort of regulation - do you disagree? Do you think it should be allowed to proceed without regulation??

SRM Image: justmeint.files.wordpress.com...

A pictur of SOME methods that have been proposed to fight global warming. Some of them have actually been tried - such as ocean fertilisation, growing trees, and carbon capture.

Are you against growing trees??

fight back with orgone! educate-yourself.org...

Well at least that does no harm!!

You seem very confused - on the one hand you apparently don't like geo-engineering, but on the other hand you seem to be opposed to attempts to regulate it - as if you do not realize that without regulation there is nothing to stop anyone doing whatever they like!!

It is almost as if you are an agent provocateur sent to confuse the issue!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

You seem very confused - on the one hand you apparently don't like geo-engineering, but on the other hand you seem to be opposed to attempts to regulate it - as if you do not realize that without regulation there is nothing to stop anyone doing whatever they like!!

It appears to me that you are the one confused. You’re assuming we want regulations about things we don’t want PERIOD.

As for the agent provocateur sent to confuse the issue! I see a few members here that fit that description by their constant argument regarding aerosol geo engineering and disregard for the inhabitancy of Earth.

reply to post by fireyaguns


How often is this misconception seen on ATS? I fully appreciated why it happens but it is simply down to general ignorance of aviation.

Obviously you will be expecting these 'lost pilots' and their aircraft to be back again to carry out more 'spraying'?

Get an app for your phone an you too can identify the aircraft.

www.flightradar24.com...

www.flightradar24.com...

Flight Radar also has a playback feature.

Find an aviation enthusiasts or Air Traffic Control forum and study the subject of aviation and aviation procedures. Even an aviation Flight Simulator hobby website will provide the basics and outline procedures such as holding patterns and flight routes, etc.

Originally posted by fireyaguns
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

You seem very confused - on the one hand you apparently don't like geo-engineering, but on the other hand you seem to be opposed to attempts to regulate it - as if you do not realize that without regulation there is nothing to stop anyone doing whatever they like!!

It appears to me that you are the one confused. You’re assuming we want regulations about things we don’t want PERIOD.

And how are you going to stop them happening except by regulations??

And how are you going to make those regulations, if not by starting with a discussion about what the regulations should be??

You want to ban geo-engineering? Fine - I have no problem with that in principle. But to ban it you have to have a discussion about ti, leading to an agreement to ban it, and then action putting that agreement into regulations to give it effect.

But you guys seem to not want to bother having that discussion.

As for the agent provocateur sent to confuse the issue! I see a few members here that fit that description by their constant argument regarding aerosol geo engineering and disregard for the inhabitancy of Earth.

Who is that?

If you are concerned about the "inhabitancy of Earth" what do you think we should do if the climate changes to make the earth less habitable??

Because regardless of what the source is of the climate change - whether it be carbon and other GHG emissions, or the sun or other "natural" cycle, it does seem that the climate is changing and no-one is arguing otherwise much anymore. Well.... except Monkton... but he's an idiot...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

And how are you going to stop them happening except by regulations??

We stop them together. We all should be coming together on this one.

REGULATE. The power to regulate commerce, vested in congress, is the power to prescribe the rules by which It shall be governed, that is, the conditions upon which it shall be conducted, to determine when it shall be free, and when subject to duties or other exactions. The power also embraces within its control all the instrumentalities by which that commerce may be carried on, and the means by which it may be aided and encouraged.
Black’s Law Dictionary

You see here is the problem in the beginning. The governments already regulates these programes without giving us the flesh and blood men and women full disclosure as it is, so why would we want our already deceitful governments to regulate what should not exist in the first place.

Did you pick up on the part where it is written ‘the power to regulate commerce’?

If you are concerned about the "inhabitancy of Earth" what do you think we should do if the climate changes to make the earth less habitable??

Let’s start with the pricks flying the planes and work up to who is in charge of the stratospheric aerosol geo engineering programmes.