CIVIL WAR: Senate To Go For Handguns

Originally posted by charlyv

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by charlyv

 

How about my rights, and the rights of others including children? The right to live in a world that is a little bit safer, and not to be peppered with an automatic or semi-auto with a large clip, just because some idiot is having a bad day.

I am a gun owner. I was in the military.

I was in the military too, and from what you just said, you are not my brother/sister! You joined the military for monetary reasons and you failed to understand your OATH to the Constitution of the United States of America!! You should be ashamed of yourself!!!!

Honor your Oath!!!!! Your a disgrace to those of us who do still honor our Oath!

edit on 27-12-2012 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)

I joined the military to help defend my country, and how dare you infer that I did it for "monetary reasons". What the hell do you know about me? You want to talk about OATH? Well, here it is. Let's see who's viewpoints are in the spirit of the oath.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Do you see the part that says "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States " ? This is the legislation that he himself is pushing. Further, you are exactly the kind of person that my original post is directed against.

If you think that assault class weapons belong in the public sector, then you are more an enemy to the public, then an ally of the United States. You are the one who is a disgrace to those of us who do still honor our Oath, because you really have forgotten what it really says, and what it really means.

edit on 28-12-2012 by charlyv because: so teed off I cannot spell right.

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Re-read that part.

reply to post by charlyv


it is you folks who "honor your oath" that scare me enough that i want an "assault class weapon".

It is pretty much writ in stone. The good folks that have the guns won't fight to keep them. I mean fight, not make a phone call or send an email. A revolution by real Americans with real American ideas is long overdue. Too long overdue and too outnumbered by dumbass liberals that think the government is God and can supply them with all they need and keep them safe. The second Amendment is useless today and so said so is the rest of them. We will fall soon for we can not seem to fight for the very things we hold dear.

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by charlyv

 

If you can define an "assault class weapon", then you're doing better than some of the top military and law enforcement officials in the U.S. There is no such official term, unless you're here to officiate it.

And your oath includes a commitment...no...an OBLIGATION....to only obey lawful orders and to disobey unlawful orders. So if you have interpreted your oath to blindly do whatever some nut-job anti-American asswipe in the White House tells you, you are in breach of your military obligations.

And I'm okay with pointing that out to you, by the way.

edit on 12-28-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

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reply to post by charlyv

You blind Anti-American... you deserve what you get, and you are typical of a breed of Americans that are really not Americans, but traitors to it's values, teachings and spirit. You hide in the tunnels of it's "very hard to understand values" because your intelligence level is not capable of understanding them, however, those that made this country what it is, certainly did, and you have benefited from their sacrifices, yet you still do not get it.

Construction of a straw-man...? I'm not sure how I am to refute an ambiguous portrayal. Also, who are "those that the made the country what it is"?

An "Assault Class Weapon" is one that is Automatic or Semi-Automatic that can fire more than the traditional (today) number of rounds than legacy weapons such as a six or seven round capacity without reloading.

There are many firearms that are semi-automatic. In fact, the majority of handguns are semi-automatic. Do you consider a glock 9mm an "assault class weapon"? Based on your definition that anything automatic or semi-automatic as pertaining to some weapon that is an assault weapon, these would be included. Additionally, a double-action revolver would fall into this category.

Who cares if you are ok with pointing this out to me or not, you need to get a hold of reality and a hold of what is defined as a weapon that meets the accepted definition today. The laws that were written back when we had the first and second amendment were based upon weapons that required a few minutes to reload and prime, if you recall history. There is no precedence for the class of weapons we have today, so it requires BRAINS and COMMON SENSE to level the playing field and put the spirit of the Constitution back into reality. That is what being an American is all about... Intelligence.

Mis-Characterizing those with whom you disagree as persons without intelligence does not advance your message. Additionally, not making the distinction between types of firearms (and.. no... you have not made a differentiation worth a wooden nickel to a veteran or a gun owner) does not add to your credibility.

There is no way our forefathers could have known about what we have today, and the law was written in the context of what a person would be capable of performing, in terms of destruction and weapons available at the time, given an accepted reload time. This is where common sense comes in to play, since when these laws were created, there was barely anything that could repeat-fire in under a minute. Use your f###ing head and see if you can figure this out.

First off, it was not a law that was written. It was a right endowed by God that was enumerated by the constitution. Government does not give us rights, it is supposed to exists solely to guarantee and protect our rights. Additionally, the "arms" at the time that the 2nd amendment (part of what is known as the Bill of Rights) included canons and not just muskets. Finally, if you want to use the "what the founders could or could not imagine" concept, then please equally apply that to the 1st amendment and then consider the impact that could have on an ATS website under the scrutiny of a government that only considers spoken word and written parchment as applicable under the 1st amendment for freedom of speech.

reply to post by charlyv


I agree they did not realize we would have assault weapons or highly adavanced technology. However i think if they had they would have wanted that tech in the hands of the public as well as the military exspecially the militia's. The whole idea was to balance power, so that the government never out gunned it's people. But then what are we even talking about that kind of tech has long since been in the hands of the government and black projects. The militia's never fully organized; at some point once we were sold into consumerism, i think the whole idea became absurd as our new trendy phones and ready made meals replaced any insecurity or fear of the Government. Indeed we have seperated from our value's there was a time i could find land pitch tent and build a home. Now we operate under false ideal's we have gave up independence for dependence we have allocated resources to the hands of the few instead of the many. How can one part, be greater than the sum of the whole? This is the society we live in. Whats called individualism is nothing more than selfishness and through our selfishness our weakness is exploited. We are spoon fed and processed as if we ever had the right to think, we are just window lickers to TPTB. We might as well be licking window's because thats what all of this amounts to.

Do you really think they could trust a single one of us with the red button? You would press it, control is already accomplished we police ourselves. Just get in line protect your silly last right. What you dont realize they are already gone. Maybe not but answer me this, are you willing to give up your iphone your new car your cozy apartment or house and all the things that make your measily consumer life easy. Probably not neither am I, so lets all just hope this isn't a conspiracy and the world is as stupid as it seems. Lets hope the metaphorical milk man shows up tommarow and walmart and wallstreet dont tank. Because as much as you hate this government and society you leach off of it giving up your personal freedoms for prototype, pre assembled,made in china enjoyment.

Remember what happened when the first "assault weapons ban" went into effect? The Republicans owned the House and Senate for the next 12 years.

Reps like Feinstein that represent liberal strong holds are way different then Reps that represent areas of the country that vote Democrat but are still very pro gun.

She can want to ban guns, but the bigger picture shows its political suicide.

They're not passing anything, it's just something to keep us distracted and out of their hair

reply to post by charlyv

There is no way our forefathers could have known about what we have today, and the law was written in the context of what a person would be capable of performing, in terms of destruction and weapons available at the time, given an accepted reload time. This is where common sense comes in to play, since when these laws were created, there was barely anything that could repeat-fire in under a minute. Use your f###ing head and see if you can figure this out.

On the contrary I bet the founding fathers wished they had the weapons that we have today. What makes you think they didn't think about have super advanced technology and ways to invent it?

Currently we think about and pursue ways to travel into space. You don't think a bunch of blacksmiths were trying to come up with semi-automatic and automatic weapons?

I'd have to say that you need to use your head if you can't figure it out. All you have to do is look around and see we as humans are constantly tinkering and inventing things to make our lives easier and the tasks we do more efficient.

Leonardo Da Vinci had sketches of flying machines in his notebooks as well sketches of weapons that shoot multiple projectiles.

reply to post by charlyv


It is well established legal fact, derived from quotes from our founders, that the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to allow us to protect ourselves from folks who are in your line of work. The blind soldier who "just follows orders".

ETA: to point out that you self serving feelings of superiority may be misplaced. In your opening sentence you employ no less than 2 logical fallacies:

You blind Anti-American... you deserve what you get, and you are typical of a breed of Americans that are really not Americans

The onsie-twosie combo of the ad hominem mixed in with a little "No Real Scotsman". Classic. What better way than to introduce your tirade into how those who disagree with you are lacking intellectually.

Here's my statement to the Federal Government:

I give up. You can have my gun.
But first, please let me know when you've disarmed all of the criminals in the country so that I know that gun control really works.
Also, let me know when you have refused armed protection for yourselves so that I know that you're sincere.
And tell me when all of the machinery in the world that could produce guns is distroyed so that I know there will be no new guns produced on the black market and sold to criminals.
And let me know when you've eliminated all the materials that can be used to make machinery that could produce guns which will be sold on the black market to criminals.
Then let me know when you've disarmed the police, since they will no longer have to fear being shot.
And don't forget all of the federal and state government agencies, since they will then be able to do their jobs without weapons.
Please guarantee me that no guns of any kind will enter the country from outside, and also guarantee that if any do, I will be issued a free "assault rifle" and "high-capacity" magazines by the government for my personal protection.
Finally, let me know when you've disarmed the military so that I can rest assured that our country will not fall to tyranny as the forefathers warned.

Then you can have my gun.

Originally posted by Merlin Lawndart
There shall be NO INFRINGEMENT WHATSOEVER upon our god given second amendment rights.

God given?

Man sometimes I don't know if I'm just so far away from the US or if I really would be scared there.

I think I'll start carrying around a two litre bottle full of acid. Because I like art.

reply to post by winofiend


He means god given right to defend himself with whatever means nessicarrly to ensure said persons survival. This includes sticks, stones, clubs, axes, firearms anything really that could be used as a weapon.

Originally posted by Vidpci
Yes let's track people exercising their God given birth right. How about we track people that have abortions? At least you know that every single one of those people are murderers.

There he is again. Does your god want more people up there, is that why he wrote your constitution?

Is that right? He wrote it, right?

God given... thats hilarious...

Originally posted by charlyv

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by charlyv

 

If you can define an "assault class weapon", then you're doing better than some of the top military and law enforcement officials in the U.S. There is no such official term, unless you're here to officiate it.

And your oath includes a commitment...no...an OBLIGATION....to only obey lawful orders and to disobey unlawful orders. So if you have interpreted your oath to blindly do whatever some nut-job anti-American asswipe in the White House tells you, you are in breach of your military obligations.

And I'm okay with pointing that out to you, by the way.

edit on 12-28-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

You blind Anti-American... you deserve what you get, and you are typical of a breed of Americans that are really not Americans, but traitors to it's values, teachings and spirit. You hide in the tunnels of it's "very hard to understand values" because your intelligence level is not capable of understanding them, however, those that made this country what it is, certainly did, and you have benefited from their sacrifices, yet you still do not get it.

An "Assault Class Weapon" is one that is Automatic or Semi-Automatic that can fire more than the traditional (today) number of rounds than legacy weapons such as a six or seven round capacity without reloading.

Read about it, it is widely stated and also part of the the proposed legislature, but they even take it up to 10 rounds, which is not in the classic definition.

The definition is based upon legacy semi-automatic weapons available as hand guns back around 1949 .

Who cares if you are ok with pointing this out to me or not, you need to get a hold of reality and a hold of what is defined as a weapon that meets the accepted definition today. The laws that were written back when we had the first and second amendment were based upon weapons that required a few minutes to reload and prime, if you recall history. There is no precedence for the class of weapons we have today, so it requires BRAINS and COMMON SENSE to level the playing field and put the spirit of the Constitution back into reality. That is what being an American is all about... Intelligence.

There is no way our forefathers could have known about what we have today, and the law was written in the context of what a person would be capable of performing, in terms of destruction and weapons available at the time, given an accepted reload time. This is where common sense comes in to play, since when these laws were created, there was barely anything that could repeat-fire in under a minute. Use your f###ing head and see if you can figure this out.

And, calling the President an Asswipe? (well we just have to put that in perspective of your persona as well)

You're the type of American that I actually respect.

Coming in here and seeing people with machine guns in their avatars defending the 2nd amendment makes me sick to my stomach.

You DON'T need an automatic/semi-automatic weapon for protection. A shotgun with limited rounds (similar to what Australia allows) is enough to protect yourselves. Anything else just provides the mentally ill the resources to go on yet again, another mass shooting spree.

I've repeatedly heard that "they're coming for my guns" ever since Obama took office in 2009... and it hasn't happened yet. Until there is actually legislation being considered in Congress I'm going to chalk this sort of talk up to racial paranoia, but frankly even as a gun owner I have a hard time feeling that gun laws in USA are perfect -- specifically I would welcome legislation that effectively made it more difficult for the mentally disturbed or violent criminals to obtain firearms -- and if I've gotta wait a few more days for that Mateba I've been dreaming about then so be it. I've got a right to bear arms, not to avoid inconveniences.

reply to post by Ahabstar


I would have thought it more this way.

If everyone has military style weapons as is the want - no, as is their god given constitutional right, by jove - then you don't need any police at all. Or armed forces.

What if a druggy attacks you. You need your 12 round clip because those druggys can take 10 hits and keep charging at you.
What if 19 people attack you. You need you extra clips and you can reload that machine in less than 2 seconds.
What if someone breaks into your house. You need your gun to protect your property, which means, you will kill them.
What if the government comes to impose tyranny. Every single armed US citizen will rise to the occasion, ready and willing to lay their lives down for the good of all US citizens.

No police needed. You're all armed and ready to uphold justice.
No military needed. You're all armed and proficiently trained in combat.
No judicial system. Judge, jury, executioner beside the bed stand.

I see none of that happening.

But it's a nice pipe dream.

A god given pipe dream.

Originally posted by LightCraft
Yes there IS a need for high capacity magazines. They keep good guys from being outgunned by bad guys. Or would you prefer that bad guys have more job security?

I honestly had no idea that it was still the wild west in the US. You don't see it on the telly.

Sounds like you're all sitting in a saloon playing poker, chewing on matchsticks and waiting for bad bobby brown to walk in, swinging the doors open, and pulling out his guns only to have the entire saloon stand up and whip out their ak-47's and make sure that criminal scumbag meets his maker.

The little lady sitting in the house, waiting for hubby to waltz in so she can get him his supper. But Oh no, those jonses have been around again. Best get the posse and go put the fear of lead into those hooligans.

What police force? Who needs them.

I seriously did not know it was still so chaotic over there.

no wonder your tv shows are so rubbish these days, in between all the gun slinging and shoot outs that prevent serious criminals from committing serious crimes, there must be absolutely no time to rehearse scenes.

Well all this is excellent news. I can't tell you how much it pleases me to see Americans about to be disarmed. It makes no sense at all in this modern age for ordinary citizens to have guns. This is not the Wild West, Tex. Get used to the idea of giving up your guns. It's a-comin'!