I met a mason and he said to me...what does it mean?

Originally posted by almadd2012
"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, 1871, p. 321.

What are the paragraphs directly before and after the one you quoted and what is the relevance of them to each other? You did know Pike thought people were foolish for believing in the Devil, right?

"When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething, surging energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward he must prove his ability to properly apply energy." Manley P. Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, 1924, p. 76.

You do know that Hall wrote this more than 30 years before becoming a Mason, right?

I so do love out of context and irrelevant quotes.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Nothing in the preceding paragraphs in Pike takes away the obvious meaning of what he says in that quote. In fact, anyone who takes a read through his writings will get a very clear understanding of his philosophy. Did he believe in "the Devil"? Probably not, as "the Devil" in the sense you refer is a being subservient to God. Pike believed in God's antithesis, to which he ascribed powers equal to that of God. It's no different a philosophy than Satanists or Wicca. It's no different a philosophy to the ancient mystery religions, either (as most Masonic authors will state). What it isn't, though, is morally good.

As for Manly P. Hall's date of initiation into Freemasonry, sorry, I have no information on that point. I know that initiation into Freemasonry publicly isn't important for the inner circle, however. I know you don't believe there's such a thing, though. Ignorance is bliss when it comes to Masonry. Hall is a well-respected Masonic author. That, my friend, cannot be denied.

But all of this is really moot, isn't it? You know what you believe, and you know what the accepted answers are to the criticisms of Masonry. I know them, too; I truly was a Mason for a number of years before I started to actually open my mind and heart. I know, all too well, the feeling of superiority you have in your heart. It feels good to think you know something everyone else doesn't. God really doesn't work that way, though.

Originally posted by almadd2012
In fact, anyone who takes a read through his writings will get a very clear understanding of his philosophy. Did he believe in "the Devil"?...Pike believed in God's antithesis...

Well it is obvious that you did not 'take a read through his writings' as you would have found, just as anyone else who has read Pike, that he does not believe in anything but God. In his opinion God is repsonsible for creating both good and evil.

As for Manly P. Hall's date of initiation into Freemasonry, sorry, I have no information on that point. I know that initiation into Freemasonry publicly isn't important for the inner circle, however. I know you don't believe there's such a thing, though. Ignorance is bliss when it comes to Masonry.

Which, as you are not a Mason, make s you doubly ignorant.

Hall is a well-respected Masonic author. That, my friend, cannot be denied.

Hall criticised his writings later in his life and called himself 'foolish'.

God really doesn't work that way, though.

Tell us, oh great and pompous one, how does God work?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I most certainly have read through his writings. As for Hall saying his writings were foolish... sure, that's normal backpeddaling for a Freemason who's said too much. Disinformation abounds in Freemasonry (and rightly so; secrecy requires it).

God works through love and openness. Love your neighbour (not just your "brother") as yourself. And his will is available for all to know, not just a select few "adepts".

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Which, as you are not a Mason, make s you doubly ignorant.

I'm sorry, what? I was a Mason. Now I'm not. I take that as having the experience to understand both sides of the fence. I wasn't just a casual Mason, either, one who left before he got into it. I was on the cusp of being initiated into the real meaning of Masonry. And by that I don't mean through the degrees, or even through going through the chairs. And that was enough for me.

Originally posted by almadd2012
I most certainly have read through his writings.

Then how can you in all honesty claim Pike believes in something when he makes it perfectly clear he does not?

As for Hall saying his writings were foolish... sure, that's normal backpeddaling for a Freemason who's said too much.

How could he have 'said to much' when he wrote that 30 years before he became a Mason? As for the 'backpeddaling' remark he obviously realized that his comments had no basis in Masonic ritual or teachings once he did join (3 decades after he wrote it).

God works through love and openness. Love your neighbour (not just your "brother") as yourself. And his will is available for all to know, not just a select few "adepts".

Seriously, what are you on about? I find your dishonesty about Masonry to be rather pointless. From the closing charge:

Every human being has a claim up your kind offices, do good unto all men...

But you knew that, having been a Mason and all....

Originally posted by almadd2012
I was on the cusp of being initiated into the real meaning of Masonry.

Uh-huh. Whatever that means.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


What - the f - ever. I'm done talking to Masons. Enjoy your acting classes.

Originally posted by almadd2012
What - the f - ever. I'm done talking to Masons. Enjoy your acting classes.

Aww. The really, really difficult questions too hard to answer? Or do you just not like getting called out on your lies?

reply to post by babybowrain


Maybe it was a password to see if you were a brother mason and you were supposed to reply,
"Black dog barks at midnight".

Seriously, I've been looking for a place to post this, though.
I was not nearly as nervy about 2012 as I am 2013.
Were you aware that the 33rd anniversary of the Georgia Guidestones is 3-22 - 2013?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by almadd2012
What - the f - ever. I'm done talking to Masons. Enjoy your acting classes.

Aww. The really, really difficult questions too hard to answer? Or do you just not like getting called out on your lies?

Oh for frig's sake. None of your questions are hard to answer. Masonry can be explained in a couple simple sentences, but no one who doesn't get it will ever accept that explanation, because it's all "conspiracy theoryish".

Masonry is, and has always been, a way for Satan to recruit. Corruption starts small, and gets greater with time, if one is ready to accept it. Everything in Masonry that is evil is revealed in slight ways to people long before it is ever revealed in an "honest" way, because one needs to have already accepted what Masonry is in one's heart. Basically, Masonry's goals get revealed subconsciously, because Masons who are really part of it know how to impart "secret knowledge". The vast majority of Masons will never get taught the real secrets even subconsciously, because those who teach that way can see who is and who isn't ready for the knowledge.

Masonry teaches subconsciously about all of the evil deeds in the world. One that I know has been imparted to me is deviant sex. I was a pretty disgusting guy myself, having been involved in orgies and gang bangs and such, all on my own. It was through the understanding of that kind of behaviour in me that Freemasonry's signs that point to that were revealed to me. Everyone knows about the flap going up unintentionally, and the little comments made about that. That's one of many (little) signs. "Childish" gay comments would be thrown around the lodge. When I was a deacon, when the warden came to relieve me during the third degree, he started patting me on the ass to relieve me instead of on the shoulder. That warden was becoming my mentor and close friend, and we would smoke pot occasionally, and I could see where he was coming from. He had a #ing glory hole in his basement (disguised as something else, but it was obviously meant in a way that I subconciously knew it to be true), and we laughed about it... that's how that stuff gets into you subconciously. Any quick look at the symbolism of the pillars (and that's just the stuff that's willingly published!) will paint the picture plain as day as to one of the goals of Freemasonry; to corrupt sexually. Phallic worship, homosexual sex. SECRET KNOWLEDGE, imparted in secret ways.

I met new initiates who were clearly knowledgeable about Masonry in a way they couldn't be unless they were part of the system from a young age. A Mason not yet even made MM who understood "anything for a Mason" far better than I. Who knew how to weasel his way around into getting others to get what he wanted by pretending to be ignorant. Who was clearly from an Illuminist family.

I was given opportunities to steal from the corporation that runs the building my lodge is part of. I was seeing how other Masons were getting kickbacks. I was seeing the absolute disgusting nature of many Masons. It wasn't right out in the open, but I'm an intelligent guy. I was just wilfully blind to everything until I opened my eyes. As I said, it's a subconscious thing most of the time. But once your eyes are opened, they're frickin' opened. Are yours open?

Does it happen in your lodge? How the hell should I know? Most Masons never get exposed to the darker aspects of Masonry, because most Masons aren't morally corrupt enough in their hearts to accept that stuff. Most lodges, then (I assume) are pretty tame. Only a few (I assume) have members who practice some of the darker stuff.

Organized crime was a big part of a lodge I visited, once. And I know a member of the lodge I was part of who was clearly being recruited as someone who could be used to carry out killings if they became necessary.

Right now, you either think I'm crazy, if you don't know what really goes on in Masonry, or you think I'm dangerous, if you do. I've had enough, really. I would gladly welcome my throat being cut across right now. Masonry is, without a doubt, the most evil institution ever, and I welcome the day when Christ returns and wipes it off the face of this earth.

Freemasonry IS Satan's way to initiate into his army. EVERYONE is lied to, including the ones who think they know EVERYTHING. That's because the one who's at the top really is Satan, and Satan is the Prince of Lies. The ultimate lie is that it's okay. That "Hell" is a paradise. Or that it doesn't exist. Whatever. So those who have the big power, the money, the control of nations, think that they're going to get it all. But no matter what anyone thinks, you answer to God.

And that, my friend, is why you must believe that there is a supreme being, that that supreme being punishes vice and rewards virtue, and that that supreme being has revealed his will to man. So you pay for your sins

reply to post by almadd2012


Uh huh....interesting story. I'll call Bravo Sierra on it (even though I'm quite sure you'll come immediately back saying something to the effect of this being just the tip of the proverbial Masonic iceberg). Wouldn't even surprise me if we have another cycle fixer at play

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


What's a cycle fixer?

The story is completely true, but there's no way for me to prove any of it, so feel free not to believe a word of it. All that really matters is that I believe it.

OP, do you remember anything else? Masons are not only communicating verbally but also with subtle gestures.

It could be one of a few things depending on whether or not any gestures were also happening. Ill hold off on making any guesses until after I know just a bit more.

There's a response that can be given, or a sign. Out of respect for members of masons, Ill let them tell you what it is or not. I do not agree with Masonary, but I wouldn't want someone revealing things best left unknown about things pertaining to me or my obligations.

reply to post by almadd2012

Well according to the Bible he is only a disgraced Babylonian King.

Neither of those quotes speak of worshiping Lucifer so your assertions are meaningless.

reply to post by almadd2012

A belief in a God and His antithesis as you put it seems like a Cathar belief, a dualistic, but I wonder where you get the idea that Pike believed such a thing?

I know that initiation into Freemasonry publicly isn't important for the inner circle, however.

From what I've seen, you know very little on Freemasonry, whether you were really a Mason or not. Plus, the conspiracy theorist's notion of an "inner circle" is laughable and preposterous.

reply to post by almadd2012

There are plenty of Biblical verses that allude to secrecy.

Freemasonry says to not just love your Brother, but to be good to all mankind. If you were ever a Mason, or at least a worthy one, you'd know this.

reply to post by almadd2012

Uh huh...right.

reply to post by almadd2012

You sound no different than any other brainwashed religious fanatic. There's nothing Satanic about Freemasonry, but many do find religious tolerance and personal liberty to be evil, but to those I could care less what they think. I mean if I lived my life worrying that I might upset someone because of their own ignorance or bigotry, I'd never have accomplished anything in my life.

You accuse of us of having a superiority complex, but yet we read your works and its smeared with smug, self-satisfaction.

Deviant sex?! HAHAHAHA Yep, definitely sound like a religious fanatic as they usually have sex on the mind from their own vanilla lifestyle. I've served as Warden of many Lodges and I never patted any of the Deacons on the ass. Nor did the Warden ever "relieve" the deacon during the 3rd degree.

Plus, this supposed Warden's house does not represent what Freemasonry stands for. Nor does having pillars mean we worship the phallus. If we were to use the Freudian method of psychoanalysis, I'd say there was something in your childhood that stopped you from maturing properly and your stuck on sexual problems.

I was given opportunities to steal from the corporation that runs the building my lodge is part of. I was seeing how other Masons were getting kickbacks.

The more you write, the more I see that even if you were ever in the Masonic fraternity, you were one in name only. When I first joined the York Rite, I watched as the Eminent Commander was expelled from the Fraternity for stealing from the Temple Board banking accounts for personal use.

Please name these Lodges that "practice some of the darker stuff."

Masonry is, without a doubt, the most evil institution ever, and I welcome the day when Christ returns and wipes it off the face of this earth.

Ah yes, the peaceful nature of militant "christians" who have taken the compassion and lessons of love out of this magnanimous religion.

Freemasonry IS Satan's way to initiate into his army.

So what about the York Rite, particularly the Order of the Temple and the other Christian knighthoods that are connected with the American York Rite?

EVERYONE is lied to, including the ones who think they know EVERYTHING.

No one knows everything.

reply to post by almadd2012

Your belief is one thing and reality is another.

Why is it people who constantly trot out the Albert Pike Lucifer quote CANT EVEN BE BOTHERED TO READ IT? I am SO tired of people simply googling "freemason + lucifer" and copying and pasting. Its true, most Albert Pike quotes that people use, you need to read the context to understand them. However, the infamous "lucifer quote" is the exception. So, lets look out of it - completely out of context - as antimasons prefer to do things anyways:

"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, 1871, p. 321.

First sentence: 100% in line with Christian dogma. Nothing unusual here. The Bible agrees that Lucifer does indeed bear light as he can appear as an angel of light.

Second sentence: 100% in line with Christian dogma. Do any Christian's disagree that its strange to call "Satan" (who they believe is the same thing as Lucifer) as someone who bears light? No, indeed, the Bible agrees this seems odd, which is why it mentions Lucifer as an angel of light because it is not what you would expect.

Third sentence: 100% in line with Christian dogma. The Bible calls Lucifer the morning star.

Fourth sentence: 100% in line with Christian dogma. Christians believe Lucifer and Satan are the same thing. Factually incorrect, as the reference is a Old Testament King, but Pike here describes characteristics all Christian believers would associate with Satan. Does any Christian disagree that they believe Lucifer/Satan blinds feeble and selfish souls with false light? Thats all this sentence says.

Fifth sentence: 100% in line with Christian dogma. Affirms the fourth sentence, which are all qualities Christians think Satan/Lucifer possess.

There we have it. The famous Lucifer quote, line by line analysis for people who apparently can't be bothered to read. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN IT that in ANY WAY supports ANYTHING but the CHRISTIAN VERSION OF LUCIFER AS BEING A BAD THING.

It is absolutely amazing that here we have Pike agreeing with Christians and yet they use the quote to freak everyone out because they can't be bothered to READ IT.

East used to be the top when maps were used a long time ago. Since the Sun is the source of light and since the Sun is known for knowledge, peace, etc... IMO maybe he is saying that Masonry is what guides him? I know a Mason and he said that after I graduate I could possibly join although he said it's not all about secrets and conspiracies. It's mostly rituals.

By the way, I've been a mason for only 5 years, but I can count the number of times I've given the handshake or "tested" a fellow mason outside the lodge: 0. I have had a few brethren give me the handshake outside of the lodge, but to be frank with you I almost always forget to reciprocate. Here is how masons identify each other in real life:

Me: Hi, I'm a mason.
Brother: Me too! What lodge?

It really is just that simple. If I ever had any doubts (although I can't find a reason why anyone would want to fake membership, but I suppose it could happen), I'd just ask to see their dues card.

reply to post by thelongjourney


All this jazz about Lucifer is confusing.

I am of the belief that Lucifer is another name for Venus or the Woman, and that Satan is the name for a worldly adversary in general against which the living human is constantly struggling for survival. The Sun is aiding the living human, though also ultimately killing the human and as such it is the Great Dragon.

I am of the opinion that people get confused with the phrase ''Lucifer the light-bearer'' and think that bearing light is somehow shining light as a source. The Sun is the source, not Lucifer. Also, when occultists speak of Lucifer they use the word ''he'' to purposefully confuse people even more, making them think that Lucifer is strictly a male creature and equivalent to a male Satan or any male devil caricature in a patriarchal view. As an aside, the Moon which is also know as Sin is stealing the light. The Moon is not a source of light. It is reflecting light. Here you can get really twisted in the words because the Moon is stealing by reflecting, and ''bearing'' as if it were feminine. The Moon is spoken of as male or female in various stories. It is the thieving brother or the dark material accordingly.

When you turn your back to the Sun and look into the void you see nothing, not even your shadow, because there is nothing to bear the light. When matter condenses, or falls out of the void, then there is something, some form, to reflect the light. The Woman being material bears the light, and also brings into the world the so-called ''light of the world'' as when she, in the form of the Virgin Mary, gave birth after Immaculate Conception to Jesus the figure who is the personification of the Sun.

All word games meant to sharpen the mind.