Thoughts from a former Christian

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Here's a pretty good little blog post regarding the question, which includes what Jesus learned as he was growing up (supposedly)...

the Jews were accusing Jesus of calling himself the Son of God and they called it blasphemy. But, Jesus responded to their accusation with a simple verifiable question. Doesn’t your Law say that you are gods?

In other words God had called them gods a long time before Jesus said He was the Son of God and they ignored it like religious people still do today. Do you see the parallels found in our churches today? Do you see the religious patterns still prevalent in the minds of religious people today?

Here is one of the verses that Jesus heard read from their law and Jesus learned this verse in their temple so they could not deny that it was written there:

Psa 82:6 I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

In this verse in Psalms Jesus was taught that the Most High God called men gods.

If Jesus could read and see this verse in the Bible, how is it that the religious leaders of the day did not understand what they had read in their own law? Did God blaspheme when He called men gods? This verse further goes on to call all men and women the children of the Most High. That means they were all called the sons and daughters of God before Jesus said He was the Son of God!

I Said Ye Are gods!

reply to post by wildtimes


How many begotten Sons of God are there?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


We are all "children" of "God" -- the Source -- we all came from the same place.
I have no idea of how many souls are in the universe; how many cells are in our bodies? How many nano-particles?

It seems you are coming at this from the story of the "virgin birth" - and since I don't believe that happened, I can't answer your question. Life is a miracle; the regular conception of a child in the womb is plenty "divine"....

We are all begotten, from an egg and a sperm uniting and growing. Sex is not a sin. There is no "original sin" in being human.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wildtimes

 

How many begotten Sons of God are there?

Did Jesus really claim to be the only begotten son of God? I doubt it.

Jacob is God's son and firstborn: Exodus 4:22 "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,"

2 Samuel 7:13-14. Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."

Jeremiah 31:9 for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.(who is God's firstborn?. Israel (Jacob) or Ephraim?)

Psalms 2:7 "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (David the king), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee".

Exodus 4:22. Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son":

Luke 3:38 "Adam, which was the son of God." the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Deuteronomy 14:1 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

Luke 3:38. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. Well then, is Jesus the only begotten son of God?.

reply to post by wildtimes


I never said anything about original sin, that's a false teaching. And the answer is, Jesus of Nazareth is the only begotten Son of God. Not even Adam was begotten.

reply to post by windword


Psalm 2 is a prophecy. It's a conversation between three entities. And "firstborn" is what is called a "Hebraism". In Hebrew language and culture it means basically "greatest born". David is called a firstborn in numerous places, yet he was the youngest of Jesse's male sons. Research "Hebraisms".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I never said anything about original sin, that's a false teaching. And the answer is, Jesus of Nazareth is the only begotten Son of God. Not even Adam was begotten.

Everyone and to help NTT, the question to ask, by whose authority do you reject Original Sin?

Original Sin is true. You reject the God given authority of the Church who canonized the Bible and instead go with Martin Luther's heresy of the Bible is now your authority (Sola Scriptura). There are verses in Scripture to confirm Original Sin.

Water Baptism removes Original Sin. You are "born again" as Jesus states in John 3. Baptism is so very very important, you receive God's presence in your soul for the first time at Baptism. The Church recognizes non-Catholic Christian baptism if done with water and prayed in the name God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Here are verses on Original Sin.

~ ~ ~

ROMANS 5:12-21 (NIV) -- Therefore, just as SIN entered the world THROUGH ONE MAN [Adam], and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, BECAUSE ALL SINNED [Latin Vulgate reads -in quo omnes peccaverunt-] (verse 12) [translated: "IN WHOM all have sinned"] ...Consequently, just as the result of ONE TRESPASS was condemnation for ALL MEN, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the ONE MAN [Adam] the many [all] were MADE SINNERS, so also through the obedience of the one man [Christ] the many [all] will be made righteous. (verses 18-19)

(2) 1 Corinthians 15:21 -- in Adam all die

1 CORINTHIANS 15:21-22 (NIV) -- For since death came through A MAN [Adam], the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man [Christ]. For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, so in Christ all will be made alive.

(3) Eph 2:1-3 -- dead in sin...by nature children of wrath

EPHESIANS 2:1-3 (NIV) -- As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

(4) Genesis chapters 2-3; 6:5; 8:21 -- Fall of Mankind

(5) Psalms 51; 58 -- conceived in sin...astray from womb

PSALMS 51 and 58 -- Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (51:5 NIV); Behold I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (51:5 RSV); Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies. (58:3 NIV); The wicked go astray from the womb, they err from their birth, speaking lies. (58:3 RSV)

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

What does that have to do with the Council of Nicaea?

Everything. Don't quote Catholic history while you reject the faith. You have no authority and neither do I, the
reason Jesus established one faith. We can know what God has revealed.

reply to post by colbe


Original sin isn't true. Adam was responsible for Adam's sin, and I am responsible for mine. I'm not responsible for his sin. Retarded people and children aren't accountable until they reach an age of accountability and can understand right from wrong and their need for a redeemer. Christ said the kingdom of heaven if for children, and David spoke of his dead infant being in heaven. The only thing that passed to us from Adam was a nature to sin, not his sins. So with us it's a matter of when not if, we all sin by nature.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

What does that have to do with the Council of Nicaea?

Everything. Don't quote Catholic history while you reject the faith. You have no authority and neither do I, the
reason Jesus established one faith. We can know what God has revealed.

No, it has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Changing the subject is a red herring fallacy.

reply to post by colbe

Everyone and to help NTT, the question to ask, by whose authority do you reject Original Sin?

Original Sin is true. You reject the God given authority of the Church who canonized the Bible and instead go with Martin Luther's heresy of the Bible is now your authority (Sola Scriptura). There are verses in Scripture to confirm Original Sin.

No, colbe, it's not. It's a made-up way to control people and make them feel like no matter what they do, they are crap.

Also....
you missed the part about Jesus being the only "begotten." No....
begotten, by definition,
means "conceived."

Adj. 1. begotten - (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child"
biological - of parents and children; related by blood; "biological child"

www.thefreedictionary.com...


ALL BABIES are born from the insemination of a ripe ovum....caused by a MAN and a WOMAN having sex.....no other way to do it.

And every zygote, every embryo, every fetus, EVERY ONE OF THEM -- of us -- are begotten that way. Even Jesus!! Begotten.

Original sin is an outdated notion.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yeah? I'm just not seeing it, sorry.

Sounds like like a quite a stretch, after reading the whole chapter.

Answer the question NTT, you posted the name of an early Christian, Iraneaus. I posted his quotes
on the Eucharist. So....we can know...

Why do you reject Jesus' presence in the Eucharist? Makes no sense brother.

I am going to follow the first Christians and most important, Our Lord's teaching.."This is My body." By faith, believe God can dos this...change bread and wine into His body and blood, it's supernatural.

...reject those revolting prideful men in the 16th century! Spooky date, Martin Luther revolted, October 31, 1517.


Come along, you can become Roman Catholic NTT. Please....


love,

colbe

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe

 

Everyone and to help NTT, the question to ask, by whose authority do you reject Original Sin?

Original Sin is true. You reject the God given authority of the Church who canonized the Bible and instead go with Martin Luther's heresy of the Bible is now your authority (Sola Scriptura). There are verses in Scripture to confirm Original Sin.

No, colbe, it's not. It's a made-up way to control people and make them feel like no matter what they do, they are crap.

Also....
you missed the part about Jesus being the only "begotten." No....
begotten, by definition,
means "conceived."

Adj. 1. begotten - (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child"
biological - of parents and children; related by blood; "biological child"

www.thefreedictionary.com...


ALL BABIES are born from the insemination of a ripe ovum....caused by a MAN and a WOMAN having sex.....no other way to do it.

And every zygote, every embryo, every fetus, EVERY ONE OF THEM -- of us -- are begotten that way. Even Jesus!! Begotten.

Original sin is an outdated notion.

Hi wildtimes, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and New Year's Eve.

Our Lord and Mary are exceptions to Original Sin. Both were/are sinless. Mary was conceived without Original Sin, she would carry God Himself inside her. And John the Baptist was sanctified IN the womb. You do accept some of God's exceptions, why not all?

And no offense, the "control" excuse is lame. No one controls you. God gave everyone the free will to accept
or reject the teachings of His Church.

People go so far as to believe their justification is determined by what each person believes.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

What does that have to do with the Council of Nicaea?

Everything. Don't quote Catholic history while you reject the faith. You have no authority and neither do I, the
reason Jesus established one faith. We can know what God has revealed.

No, it has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Changing the subject is a red herring fallacy.

Lame excuse, such immaturity.

Running away, you were the one who previously here, in this thread, referenced Iraneaus and the Council of Nicea, yet you reject the faith. Obvious shouting out there error of a Protestant. No one cares what you or I personally believe, look to what God has revealed NTT.

Everything you know of Christ came from His Church, the RCC. Roman Catholicism is the true faith.

Folks, how ridiculous to once in a while, speak of the first Christians, men taught by the Apostles and their authoritative, "take it to the Church" Roman Catholic councils but at the same time, reject their historical, "we can know" beliefs? We have their quotes.

Instead, choosing to go with some men in the 16th century, following them and their new founded heresies, these few who rejected the teachings that came direct from Christ Himself. And so lame, to proclaim a Catholic book, Holy Scripture, your authority now instead of the Church.

Makes no sense. Your eternal life is at stake. Don't you desire as much grace as you can receive?

Hang on till the Great Warning.

reply to post by colbe


It's not a lame excuse, and no one is "running away". Changing the subject has no place in rational debate. We were discussing the Council of Nicaea and what you brought up has nothing to do with that. If you want to discuss your matter make a thread, simple as that.

Since it appears you don't know what a red herring fallacy is you can read up on it here.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Yeah? I'm just not seeing it, sorry.

Sounds like like a quite a stretch, after reading the whole chapter.

Not at all. It's a conversation between three people, and it's about the future when the Son is reigning.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

It's not a lame excuse, and no one is "running away". Changing the subject has no place in rational debate. We were discussing the Council of Nicaea and what you brought up has nothing to do with that. If you want to discuss your matter make a thread, simple as that.

Since it appears you don't know what a red herring fallacy is you can read up on it here.

The faith doesn't need to be debated. There is one Truth.

Why don't you read up on where the Bible came from and on the grace given in the Eucharist. Your pretty
mean NTT, why is that, don't be so angry.

Don't discuss a Catholic Council while you reject the faith, instead figure it out, Roman Catholicism is the one
only faith, all the rest are man made religions, christian and non-Christian. Jesus is going to show you soon
during the Great Warning.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Yeah? I'm just not seeing it, sorry.

Sounds like like a quite a stretch, after reading the whole chapter.

Not at all. It's a conversation between three people, and it's about the future when the Son is reigning.

Could you be a little more specific NTT?

Reigning over 38,000 Protestant sects? Excuse me, which one will Our Lord be reigning over? A serious question, which one will He reveal is His true Church? You understand our dear Lord is coming soon, why is He returning if Protestantism is going to remain as it is, believe as you wish, as you choose. "Faith Alone" is one of the biggest heresies of Protestantism, other heresies come from it. Such a shame, the easy way.

Do the splits from the original splits Lutheranism, Calvinism have it right? Could it be the non-denominational sects of Protestantism? Wait, how about the home churches? You don't have to assemble to worship God on Sunday. Ah, the easy way again...

Can you explain how Our Lord is going to reign over Christianity and the rest of the world when He returns? He is going to narrow it down to reveal for example, the Assemblies of God is the one? What will He do with most of Christianity and with the Orthodox?

Please don't forget Our Lord's promise to Peter, Satan will not overcome My Church (singular) in Matthew 16:18.
There is One Lord, one faith, one Baptism Eph 4:5. Roman Catholicism is the faith, the most Holy Eucharist is true. God wants us all to believe the same, He always has so remember.