You Are Delusional...........

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

 

I simply find it ridiculous that anyone can think we are the only form of intelligent life.

There are many other places where humans reside. But, things will be different there. (Life span, physical features, language, etc.)

Not sure I would call them Humans, however, I think it is hysterical that "scientists" think for life to exist on other planets it would need to have Earth like atmosphere conditions. Anyone been in the ocean? Unless I am mistaken the atmospheric conditions there are considerably different and although we don't consider many of those species to be intelligent, I have seen behavior to the contrary. We, also, have not explored more than 10% of any oceanic atmosphere.

Actually, the scientist are not looking for "Earth Like Conditions".

Mostly what they are looking for is a planet that's about the right size in the right place from it's star. That put's it in the green zone, where the temps allow for liquid water to exist.

Now, that is also because they are looking for "life as we know it", which means here on our planet, life that requires water.

Not oxygen, as we have life on here that doesn't need it, and we have had life in the Earth's past with a very poor amount of oxygen in the atmosphere.

However, one thing has be constant for us: liquid water.

Now, that doesn't mean that they don't think some other medium can be used, it's just that we do not know of any other type of life that exists without it.

We do know that we are made up of some of the most common elements in the universe: CHON (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen and Nitrogen), so it simply would make sense that with that common abundance of it out there, that life should exist out there. Then of course comes in the math that says it should too.

Now, intelligent life, tool building life, space traveling life, I would say that the universe is so vast that it would make sense for it to be out there too.

However, when we look at how we came to be as an intelligent race that are tool builders,etc, it can make one raise their eyebrows a little and wonder.

Here is why:

It seems we've had one lucky break after another. Depending on what theories you believe, it can read something like this:
1) A Mars sized planet had to hit the Earth just right, at just the right angle to produce the moon. Any other way and it would have destroyed us completely, or no moon at all.

2) Large moon, formed just right, and orbits just right so that it slowly moves away from us, but not before helping slow down the spin we had from the impact (something like a 5 hour day?), caused massive ocean tides to help mix up the "soup" that life came from.

3) Different types of life did form, and during all that time, the right life formed to give us the right oxygen rich atmosphere, but of course there's been ups and downs with that.

4) We've had many different ELEs, some wiping 90% and 95% of all life, until eventually mammals formed and came out on top.

5) I believe current popular theory has our very early ape like humans in the trees in an area of Africa, quite happy, no reason to come down, until a rupture changed the climate and made us get down out of the trees and walk upright to get to other patches of trees.

6) We stopped eating just fruits and veggies and started to eat meat, which made our brains grow even more, and started using tools to help catch that even more meat.

That isn't all of it, but again, if you look at all that, there were so, so many things that could have gone wrong or different, and we would not be here to have this convo. We might still be very small fury rodent like creatures hiding in holes.

Does it mean intelligent design? I'm not saying it does. But I am saying that considering what all it took for us to exist as intelligent, tool using creatures, it makes you wonder how many times it's happened just like that, or closely to it on other planets out there.

But then, yes, the universe is so vast, that there is room enough for those odds for it to have happen, or will happen again.

reply to post by eriktheawful


You said it yourself, life as we know it requires water, but that does not mean life cannot exist without it. There are places on our own Earth that quantify that. All planetary life that exist does not have to require water.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


To take your example, I can take 2 apples and add 2 apples to them and get 4. As is the same for most mathematics. So, yes, I can prove that 2 + 2 = 4.

What I can't prove with math is equations that deal with unknown variables such as the rate the universe is expanding, do all lifeforms have to be carbon based, the rate at which planets are created, is the universe even expanding, etc.

With that being said..... The other way to look at the equation is:

For every 9.e+21 planets there is a chance of life on one planet; and growing when you factor in the unknown variables mentioned above.

Given the age of the universe, and the age of Earth, I'd go a step further and say it's a mathematical certainty that there are civilizations much more advanced than ours somewhere out there.

reply to post by denver22


Did you go to school? Were you taught the history of dinosaurs? Were you taught things that you needed proof to believe before you began to believe them?

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


I completely agree with you but, wouldn't it be crazy if we really were the only one? I mean mathematically that is very very unlikely but it'd be kinda awesome.

reply to post by Timing


Yes but what is your proof? How do you arrive at the number 4 maybe the number is 6, where is your proof that what you have been taught is fact? They taught you newtons law of gravity but nowhere in any history books does it say what caused gravity...least none that I ever read. What about all the wars that have been taught in history books, they have all been debunked to have not occurred in the manor that they did. There are many things people take for fact that have absolutely no proof. I say unequivocally that the probability that life exist elsewhere in the Universe has more certainty then 90% of the crap you were taught to believe in any history book.

My question is this. Would an advanced species in our own galaxy have the tech to traverse to other stars? And if so would it not leave a signature of some sort? If something like this was buzzing around our neighborhood would we be able to detect it?

Well of course there is life "out there", where do you think we came from? Here?

Pretty arrogant considering you have never been off this rock.

Originally posted by intrptr
Well of course there is life "out there", where do you think we came from? Here?

Pretty arrogant considering you have never been off this rock.

Who exactly are you referring too in your post?

reply to post by Yngvarr


Who is to say they haven't? They are not limited in where they travel though 26 gazillion other locations to vacation.

Originally posted by missterror
reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

 

I completely agree with you but, wouldn't it be crazy if we really were the only one? I mean mathematically that is very very unlikely but it'd be kinda awesome.

Not really. It would be a very lonely Universe. Like being an only child. All you would have is make believe friends, which is what a large faction of this planet already believes, hence my original "you are delusional" which has since been softened a bit to "DENIAL" instead.

Originally posted by Ghost375
Given the age of the universe, and the age of Earth, I'd go a step further and say it's a mathematical certainty that there are civilizations much more advanced than ours somewhere out there.

Exactly...chalk one up for casper.

Originally posted by Max_TO
Hey wait a min , isn't this the space exploration forum and not post a Pick and rant forum ?
Seems to me that this post should have been posted in the alien forum , no ?

Guess what you are mistaken. The picture I posted is a picture of exploration of space and the galaxies.

Originally posted by Max_TO
reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

 

Please do tell , which religion limits their god to only being able to creating life here ?

Also , would love to know what history books have you read ?

And once again , what does any of this opinionated hyperbole have to do with space exploration ?

Perhaps the mods are busy with Christmas Eve celebrations to appropriately deal with this thread ?

edit on 24-12-2012 by Max_TO because: (no reason given)

You found the time to reply in a forum that you question why this is here? You want to talk about religion and that is far from the topic...I only used it as a reason to point out that people have no problem believing in certain things without quantifiable proof. The picture I presented at the beginning is quantifiable proof that other galaxies exist, which means by supposition other planets exist which means the exploration for other life is a continued endeavor for a reason, they have a mathematical reason to believe it exist elsewhere. So what else do you have to add besides your insults?

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


who apparently says there is not other intelligent life???

Having said that in theory yeah there is life somewhere... in reality we have no evidence to back up the calculations.

so either the calculations are wrong because they are based on a bad assumption
OR
The odds that there is no intelligent life was actually drawn.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

 

who apparently says there is not other intelligent life???

Having said that in theory yeah there is life somewhere... in reality we have no evidence to back up the calculations.

so either the calculations are wrong because they are based on a bad assumption
OR
The odds that there is no intelligent life was actually drawn.

Thanks Groucho, umm, did you get taught in a school? Did you study history? How much of what you were taught was proven? I suspect very little of it, however, take a good look at the picture I posted...that is just a very small glimpse...do you really believe that there is no other life in this Universe? Do you really need proof? Wow...denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by Yngvarr

 

Who is to say they haven't? They are not limited in where they travel though 26 gazillion other locations to vacation.

Not saying they haven't, but would this tech be detectable?

And what about stellar artifacts?
Dyson spheres or swarms
Alderson disk
Hell, even a Ringworld

I would think a type II or III civilization would be detectable.
Fermi Paradox anyone?

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33

Originally posted by intrptr
Well of course there is life "out there", where do you think we came from? Here?

Pretty arrogant considering you have never been off this rock.

Who exactly are you referring too in your post?

Not you angel...

Hubble Deep Field

I think about that all the time. I walk my dog at night before bed and I am always amazed at the stars overhead. The vastness, the wonder... thats true worship by the way... and your calculator doesn't have enough zeros.

This may have been said, but;

1. Practically NO ONE believes the entirety of the Vastness of the Universe is devoid of all life except us.
Where do people get off in thinking that skeptics feel life doesn't exist anywhere else?

2. Even if the Universe is bursting at the seams with life at all stages of development, including advanced technological representations; it means absolutely nothing if we can't detect them by any means.
Invisible aliens are worthless.

If imagining 'somewhere' there's some life out there in the great beyond of the Universe blows magic air up your skirt, you're just as well going to the cinema for a space action science fiction film

3. The only important aliens are the aliens we can detect. So far, there are zero important aliens.

Saying the Universe has life 'somewhere' in it, is like telling some impoverished homeless hobo sleeping in the gutter that he should be happy because the Sultan of Brunei is worth $20 Billion, which proves there's money out there, somewhere, that someone is enjoying.
To the hobo, the only important money is the money hes got next to the money he can get.

As for aliens, the only important aliens, as said, are the Aliens we might could know (which is still as of yet zero since we know of zero aliens posing candidacy for acquaintanceship), so, even if the Universe is bursting at the seams with life, none of it matters one bit until we have confirmation of who, what, when, where, plus possibly how and why.

Invisible undetectable aliens = worthless.

Implying that skeptics, or any non-believer mindset type doesn't accept that 'somewhere' in the Universe there's life, is ridiculous.

Accepting whether other life is visiting us, or is making contact by channeling through charlatans, abducting people that are primarily schizotypal or otherwise unreliable, booty probing, or putting on crap light shows is another question where lots of people will disagree.

Happy X-Mas.