Navy SEAL dead in Afghanistan in reported suicide

Originally posted by UberL33t

Which has me wondering why "we" are hearing about this incident...from the MSM stand point? I find it odd that they went with the "appears to be suicide" without an absolute, especially given his role. Just has my BS meter twinging a little more than usual I suppose.

The MSM isnot allowed to state that it was a suicide until the investigation is completed. Until then it is still a suspicious death. I'm quite surprised they were allowed to even mention the word suicide to be honest - this is quite unusual.

Originally posted by PaddyInf
Soldiers are a macho group who often view seeking help with mental health issues as a sign of weakness and leave it too late.

Dunno how it is for RMC but SF, you can get help for marital conflicts. They like that. If you ETS, you can get re-integration counseling, and some minor PTSD counseling, and still be eligible for TS clearance.

However, if you get mental health counseling while active on anything other than marriage counseling, you may get a downcheck and reassessment. The base psych or MD will call your captain in two quick seconds if you come in and say you can't sleep because of thoughts you're having. You can say you're too excited to rest, or too tired, and get some trazodone, no worries. But if you say "I can't get that guy I gutted out of my mind" or "When I sleep, I have really vivid dreams that dead people I knew get in bed with me" it's katie-bar-the-door, because the guy will put it in your record there and then.

This is why God made SF chaplains, and single malt. Don't get me wrong, the chaplain will report you too, if he thinks it's necessary, but it's a different sort of thing, and doesn't go through channels. More like NJP than a court martial, if you get my drift, and if he thinks you talked it out he may not mention it at all.

edit to add: well, the chaplain and your Z, if he's the sort that's open to listening to you #

reply to post by Bedlam


Fair one. I don't know how it is in the US military, particularly the SF groups. I can only give my experiences with the UK practices. Over here there is still a bit of a stigma to mental health problems in the military, though it is getting better.

There are plenty of rumours of people being discharged due to PTSD etc. There is also the general belief among plenty of the younger lads (who spend a lot of their time ripping the piss out of each other) that seeing someone for a mental health related problem makes you a bit of a looper/psychopath. While this is complete and utter cr@p it is how many of the lads react. Squaddies in general aren't the most sympathetic group of people at the best of times.

I'm not saying this has any direct bearing on this particular case, but it does happen.

really?

Originally posted by PaddyInf
Squaddies in general aren't the most sympathetic group of people at the best of times.

I'm not saying this has any direct bearing on this particular case, but it does happen.

Yah, that's why upthread I said something about not daring to mention it to your buddies. You don't want them thinking something's not right with you or that they can't count on you, even if that's not the case.

For officers, I think it's likely worse.

reply to post by MrSpad


While you can not say all combat-MOS members get brainwashed, you can definitely say for certain that they try to brainwash them.

That starts from the second you get off the bus. They even tell you they are about to do it. Then they put you in tiny tiny shorts and tell you "nut-to-butt privates" (depending on where you are at). That means what it says btw.

Other than that, you are right, and it is one of the things that makes our military better. We actually tell our soldiers they do not have to follow unlawful orders. That doesn't mean they do not receive unlawful orders.

I personally see no reason to conclude that he actually did kill himself, although it is possible. The thing is, they could kill any SEAL they wanted to without the others knowing "they" did it. Who is they? Good point huh.... There are many ways to control people, even SEALS. The easiest way is to keep them too busy to realize what is actually happening (which is what is happening in our society too btw).

Of course, this might not be a conspiracy. There have been similar conspiracies in the past though....

All I can find in the MSM is that the death is being investigated as a possible suicide. The other two possibilities are he was suicided by the US, or shot by the Taliban. We need more information. With 23 years service, he could have retired, so suicide seems somewhat improbable. If he left a suicide note, or was acting suicidal, then suicide would be the verdict.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by MrSpad

 

While you can not say all combat-MOS members get brainwashed, you can definitely say for certain that they try to brainwash them.

That starts from the second you get off the bus. They even tell you they are about to do it. Then they put you in tiny tiny shorts and tell you "nut-to-butt privates" (depending on where you are at). That means what it says btw.

Other than that, you are right, and it is one of the things that makes our military better. We actually tell our soldiers they do not have to follow unlawful orders. That doesn't mean they do not receive unlawful orders.

I personally see no reason to conclude that he actually did kill himself, although it is possible. The thing is, they could kill any SEAL they wanted to without the others knowing "they" did it. Who is they? Good point huh.... There are many ways to control people, even SEALS. The easiest way is to keep them too busy to realize what is actually happening (which is what is happening in our society too btw).

Of course, this might not be a conspiracy. There have been similar conspiracies in the past though....

You are certainly regimented do a degree, more so in say the RANGERS but, that is a far cry from brain washing. SOF units in particular and very unregimented. They are without a doubt the most individualist thinking in the entire military. I have worked with SEALs and other special operators a great deal and they are a far cry from brainwashed killing machines. They are just people with a special skill set. Sometimes people kill themselves for a variety of reasons. More so if you have been in combat. In the military you have a lot of down time and allows for a lot of thinking about things. And near the holidays away from home who knows what problems he had, It is not the first time this has happened nor will it be the last. Also I have yet to see a single thing to suggest this is more than it is. Not one single thing.

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by NarrowGate
reply to post by MrSpad

 

While you can not say all combat-MOS members get brainwashed, you can definitely say for certain that they try to brainwash them.

That starts from the second you get off the bus. They even tell you they are about to do it. Then they put you in tiny tiny shorts and tell you "nut-to-butt privates" (depending on where you are at). That means what it says btw.

Other than that, you are right, and it is one of the things that makes our military better. We actually tell our soldiers they do not have to follow unlawful orders. That doesn't mean they do not receive unlawful orders.

I personally see no reason to conclude that he actually did kill himself, although it is possible. The thing is, they could kill any SEAL they wanted to without the others knowing "they" did it. Who is they? Good point huh.... There are many ways to control people, even SEALS. The easiest way is to keep them too busy to realize what is actually happening (which is what is happening in our society too btw).

Of course, this might not be a conspiracy. There have been similar conspiracies in the past though....

You are certainly regimented do a degree, more so in say the RANGERS but, that is a far cry from brain washing. SOF units in particular and very unregimented. They are without a doubt the most individualist thinking in the entire military. I have worked with SEALs and other special operators a great deal and they are a far cry from brainwashed killing machines. They are just people with a special skill set. Sometimes people kill themselves for a variety of reasons. More so if you have been in combat. In the military you have a lot of down time and allows for a lot of thinking about things. And near the holidays away from home who knows what problems he had, It is not the first time this has happened nor will it be the last. Also I have yet to see a single thing to suggest this is more than it is. Not one single thing.

Well, brainwashing is maybe over-stating it but *only* slightly. Well, unless my OSUT was a special program that they didn't tell us about (highly highly highly doubt it BUT who knows right). I witnessed this, I was one of the few (about 2-5 of us out of 30 I would estimate, I only know of 2) that did not get brainwashed. It isn't like MK Ultra brainwashing LOL but still. They believe anything they are told, and do anything they are told. Seriously I saw some pretty extreme examples of them believing anything they are told. They thought their DS's were second fathers - that is not figurative.

They brainwashed us(them) with sleep deprivation (2 hours sometimes, some nights no real sleep for weeks at a time, red phase NO sleep really). They would normally only let us take one or two bites of food. IK you are supposed to get 4 hours a night minimum and 2:00 to eat, but we did not. 30 seconds was a "blessing". After the basic part of OSUT, it got better, 6 hours of sleep and all that. I could go into more detail, and this was just cav scout OSUT (albiet the hardest one out of all the other companies, which raised my suspicion - they even got to watch a movie one time in Delta! LOL!)

I actually enjoyed my training, it was the other privates snitchin and acting like drones that got on my nerves.

I think you mentioned you are in, did you OSUT at Knox? I am assuming you are combat but I can not remember, what MOS are you if you don't mind me asking?

I still do not in any way believe PTSD and nightmares are causing the *majority* of these suicides. Seriously, I am from a military family. I know what's causing it. The root of it is the *I can't say what I have to say here about the CoC without getting the post removed* bad people (NOT all of them at all) in the chain of command. The symptoms of this disease are various.

off topic - just to this poster:

I wish the government would realize what an asset I would be one day.... The normal channels to serve the country are just not an option for me though. I would not want to be in combat with anyone as scared as the privates I saw in my OSUT. Scared of their own team at that. It has something to do with the way my brain is wired I think IDK. Either way, I got medded out in part because they broke their contract with me and also didn't let me come home for my daughters birth or brothers (not blood) murder.

Maybe one day they will realize what they are missing out on and utilize me to do some good out here who knows? I mean I do have more combat experience than most people that have been overseas... IDC if they do come find me really, it just boggles my mind they haven't. I just wanna go into Syria and get it poppin . Having kids decapitate no no: lets get it. I also love Israel. Maybe I should go join IDF! (JK JK)

I read the balance of this and although anything is possible, I agree with others on here that it's unlikely he shot himself. These guys are the most dedicated, most motivated and highly trained individuals. Their call of duty is on a different level than the average soldier. If anything they can't do enough for king and country. They also are carefully selected for their balance of decision making skills and control of emotions.

Doesn't sit right.