A list of already debunked theories, re: Sandy hook

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I think this is my first response to this event as such . I have read little bits and pieces but am notin any position where I wished to comment , as nothing is provable , one can only conjecture about things . But surely conjecture is what these boards are about .
So to the fact that the father was smiling and going into serious mode . From my position I would not want to give interviews at all . I would be locked away in total grief and heavily sedated wanting to kill myself if my child had been murdered like that .
I would be out of my mind with grief if I could not see her body and do the proper ceremonies for sending that soul off .
Some are saying that the bodies have not been seen . Is that true ?

Anyway ...Americans may be somewhat different and want media attention as their culture is fixated on being famous .

An ethnic cultured family would be openly wailing and beating their chests for all to see in such situations as their emotions are freer . The father in this case has proberly gone into a dream state of shock and is putting on a brave face for his family .
SO Sceptic Overlord you brought alot of attention to this subject where many where not really interested in commenting .

Originally posted by vkey08Vance got upset that things he said were being used as absolute fact when he prefaced with things like we believe, and this info is subject to change as the investigation progresses. So to keep the confusion to a minimum they did what they always do, hold the info until they are done.

So it really doesn't matter what various people have said, the State Police have not reached any final conclusions as of yet. Why is this so hard to understand?.

Again...this is implying that NO official statements have been made. That is patently false. We KNOW thru releases from the police...what time the call came in...what time the police arrived...what time the shooting stopped.

We also KNOW that all the people killed in the school were killed with a "long gun" as stated by the m.e. He did not say "we think it was a long gun". He stated it as fact. There have been many more such unequivical statements.

If these stories wind up changing we, imo, cannot write them off to fog of war...or lack of official pronouncements.

And...imo...we have to take as very serious the statements of Rosen. had he been making ridiculous assertions surely the police wouldnhave issued a statement distancing themselves from his comments. Since they have not I have to take his word for his assertions.


I remind everyone, that families are starting to catch wind of this site, as are people in Connecticut, there's a lot of anger twords all of these wild conspiracy theories and the mere suggestion that noone is suffering..

Do you have any further info relating to this? Letters to editors...blog postings etc? If so I would appreciate seeing them.

reply to post by swansong19


We have certain, specific times. We dont have a timeline.

The ME qualified everything he said by saying it would be thrown out of court. Meaning it was not official. Meaning it was his OPINION, not the official statement.

I continue to see you laboring this point, but I fail to see what you are trying to prove...we do not have the OS yet. Period. That you infer that this means that no statements have been made is on you, and no one else.

Originally posted by captaintyinknotsThe ME qualified everything he said by saying it would be thrown out of court. Meaning it was not official. Meaning it was his OPINION, not the official statement.

That's not true. His comments about being thrown out of court were in regards to the caliber of the bullets not the type of gun used. His comments were clear. All victims killed with a long gun. At which point a reporter asks..."Wasn't the long gun found in the car?"

I continue to see you laboring this point, but I fail to see what you are trying to prove...we do not have the OS yet. Period. That you infer that this means that no statements have been made is on you, and no one else.

I'd like you to notice how many times in that one sentence you attempted toi make this about me. It's not. Please deal with the information I'm discussing...and not make this about me in an attempt to goad me into an argument.

Originally posted by swansong19
Originally posted by captaintyinknotsThe ME qualified everything he said by saying it would be thrown out of court. Meaning it was not official. Meaning it was his OPINION, not the official statement.

That's not true. His comments about being thrown out of court were in regards to the caliber of the bullets not the type of gun used. His comments were clear. All victims killed with a long gun. At which point a reporter asks..."Wasn't the long gun found in the car?"

I continue to see you laboring this point, but I fail to see what youare trying to prove...we do not have the OS yet. Period. That you infer that this means that no statements have been made is on you, and no one else.

I'd like you to notice how many times in that one sentence you attempted toi make this about me. It's not. Please deal with the information I'm discussing...and not make this about me in an attempt to goad me into an argument.

edit on 26-12-2012 by swansong19 because: (no reason given)

Have you watched the interview, or just read the transcript?

You are inferring again. I am not making it about you. I am making it about trying to figure out what point you are trying to make.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by swansong19Have you watched the interview, or just read the transcript?

Both.
Second line.

reply to swansong19


Fair enough, so, in watching the video, did you notice his body language? The fact that he kept looking at others to see if he should answer certain questions?

the guy wasnt sure what he should or shouldnt say, and this is exactly why. And I emphasize, again, that an ME is not qualified to give the official statement on the guns. That is not what ME's do.

now, when the OS comes out, if they say there was no rifle in the school, there will be questions about this. But to this point, we dont have those questions, as we dont know what the OFFICIAL statement on weapons will be.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by mc4denmark

 

Can you imagine if you were a friend of one of the families or one of the parents and heard someone saying the government is behind this or they were paid actors taking the blame off of the monster who did this? These sick theories were being put on here before the kids had even had funerals and some are so outlandish that it only takes a scrap of common sense to know better. The one about them being actors was dependent on a facial expression it demonstrates a lack of common decency on the part of who started it.

If only some of these sicko's had the balls to drive up to those parents and say that to their faces. They don't. They hide behind their computer, screaming conspiracy at everything they see from the protection of anonymity. Some of you should be ashamed that you actually accused these grieving parents of being actors or claiming that the kids are not really dead. Seriously, what is wrong with you people?

Originally posted by captaintyinknotsFair enough, so, in watching the video, did you notice his body language? The fact that he kept looking at others to see if he should answer certain questions?

the guy wasnt sure what he should or shouldnt say, and this is exactly why. And I emphasize, again, that an ME is not qualified to give the official statement on the guns. That is not what ME's do.

Just so I have this straight.

You and others on this board have said some very unkind things about people that have provided an opinion on the behaviour/body language of some of the participants in this event.

Now...you'd like me to examine the body language of the M.E. instead of just listening to the words coming out of his mouth.

At 4:15 of this vid...his full presser...the question was what caliber of bullet...tell me what he says...and point out the equivocation.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Laykilla
TBH, I think we're being overly sensitive here.

It happened, sure it's sad -- but it's certainly not something that is uncommon. Where I live in FL, a guy went crazy and shot up a daycare center and killed his wife. It didn't make international news. It didn't even make national news.

People are entitled to their own opinions too. If someone happens to believe such and such was on heroine, that's his prerogative. It doesn't change anything for anyone.

I will agree that personal information sharing is a touchy subject, but at the same time -- isn't that what we do all the time with people in the spotlight?

So we can share all of Obama's personal information, or any senator.... but people involved in a massacre are off limits?

Sure there will be less than stellar people on the internet, but I mean -- denying ignorance is done through investigation, is it not?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen anything that I thought was personally unacceptable in regards to Sandy Hook. Nothing that takes the community back to 2003. There has been a whole lot of discussion about it too -- I think ATS Staff needs to calm it self. If people violated the T&C suspend them, ban them -- whatever. If the T&C was not violated... then you are allowing personal opinion to override what is right.

Simple.

Threatening all of ATS with a mass U2U is out of line. Saying a topic could be "Banned" of discussion is pretty draconian, and I'm sure will go over like lead balloon.

Agree. I saw the news. Knew something was WRONG. VERY WRONG in my soul. Came here. signed up. read a 90 page thread over 3 or 4 days and was very enlightened. Nobody posted any personal info about suspects they didnt find somewhere else online. Im an unbiased outsider and have respect for ATS and not disdain.

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by mc4denmark


If only some of these sicko's had the balls to drive up to those parents and say that to their faces. They don't. They hide behind their computer, screaming conspiracy at everything they see from the protection of anonymity. Some of you should be ashamed that you actually accused these grieving parents of being actors or claiming that the kids are not really dead. Seriously, what is wrong with you people?

PHELPS. JENNIFER SEXTON.
Do you need me to dwaw you a piccure?

reply to post by swansong19


Wow I just love being told that I have to tape my neighbors and fellow citizens of Connecticut just to make it more real to you..

Get a grip.. if you really don't get it, fly out here and start talking to people in state, you'll find out how fast theory's of actors and non-events and government conspiracies get you an angry mob scene. So far not one person seems to be taking into accounts the feelings of anyone here..

After 9/11 we were asked to grieve for NY
After Columbine, for Colorado
After Sandy for NY and NJ
After Katrina for Louisiana
(etc)
After this? Oh well, CT is too small it doesn't matter.

I am not going to post the names of my fellow Nutmeggers that are feeling like everyone is really off the deep end, I guess people are going to say the funeral I went to didn't happen either (rolls eyes)

This is where I lose it... I'm sorry but enough is enough is enough. Unlike everyone here that seem to want to turn this into something it probably isn't, the families WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. Plain, simple to the point and THEIR RIGHT... Or because it hit the national news, doe sit make it your right to rip them apart as they are trying to get on with their lives? I certainly didn't like it when my daughter died earlier this year and someone I knew was more interested in why I hadn't shipped something to them, small incident but still.. The amount of apathy for these families is amazing... I can only hope that nothing like this happens to you or anyone you know, because you may not get the respect you RIGHTFULLY deserve..

There is certainly a much larger picture here than what is being discussed by the mainstream media. To make this into something that is focused primarily on gun control, mental health care or putting armed guards in schools (prisons) is a real tragedy in itself. There is so much more going on under the surface. Unless that is addressed, the same thing(s) are bound to happen again.

Below is a link to an article with an in-depth examination of the "other" issues. Lots of good info and many images:

www.pbase.com...

Originally posted by vkey08
reply to post by swansong19

 

Wow I just love being told that I have to tape my neighbors and fellow citizens of Connecticut just to make it more real to you..

Get a grip.. if you really don't get it, fly out here and start talking to people in state, you'll find out how fast theory's of actors and non-events and government conspiracies get you an angry mob scene. So far not one person seems to be taking into accounts the feelings of anyone here..

After 9/11 we were asked to grieve for NY
After Columbine, for Colorado
After Sandy for NY and NJ
After Katrina for Louisiana
(etc)
After this? Oh well, CT is too small it doesn't matter.

I am not going to post the names of my fellow Nutmeggers that are feeling like everyone is really off the deep end, I guess people are going to say the funeral I went to didn't happen either (rolls eyes)

This is where I lose it... I'm sorry but enough is enough is enough. Unlike everyone here that seem to want to turn this into something it probably isn't, the families WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. Plain, simple to the point and THEIR RIGHT... Or because it hit the national news, doe sit make it your right to rip them apart as they are trying to get on with their lives? I certainly didn't like it when my daughter died earlier this year and someone I knew was more interested in why I hadn't shipped something to them, small incident but still.. The amount of apathy for these families is amazing... I can only hope that nothing like this happens to you or anyone you know, because you may not get the respect you RIGHTFULLY deserve..

I don't think I asked for any personal information. If I did please point it out to me so I can edit my post.

I simply asked for some quotes, or posts, of people complaining. Perhaps my reason for asking was I am sincerely concerned if this is the case.

Your immediate jump to anger and accusation suggests to me that perhaps you aren't in a proper emotional state to discuss this calmly.

I will leave you to your grief.

Originally posted by swansong19

Originally posted by captaintyinknotsFair enough, so, in watching the video, did you notice his body language? The fact that he kept looking at others to see if he should answer certain questions?

the guy wasnt sure what he should or shouldnt say, and this is exactly why. And I emphasize, again, that an ME is not qualified to give the official statement on the guns. That is not what ME's do.

Just so I have this straight.

You and others on this board have said some very unkind things about people that have provided an opinion on the behaviour/body language of some of the participants in this event.

Now...you'd like me to examine the body language of the M.E. instead of just listening to the words coming out of his mouth.

At 4:15 of this vid...his full presser...the question was what caliber of bullet...tell me what he says...and point out the equivocation.

www.youtube.com...

Not sure what 'unkind' things you think I have said, but its regrettable that your feelings got hurt.

That said, what you are asking, is to ONLY consider one factor of what he said, without any thought given to the context and qualification, not to mention the body language. It doesnt work that way. If we are to investigate, we must look at the ENTIRE conference, not just the few words that (sort of) fit with the points you are trying to make.

Furthermore, I ask, again, what it is that you think this proves, or contradicts. We do not have the official police report on the weapons. So its pretty tough to say that there are inconsistencies here. If the report comes out that the rifle WAS used, doesnt that make this whole thing moot?

And one final thing-did you happen to notice that this topic you are speaking on IS NOT listed in the OP as having been debunked? Seems a lot of you still dont get that pointing out some of the disproven 'theories' (and I use that term loosely) is not that same as saying that there are NO inconsistencies.

Originally posted by captaintyinknotsThat said, what you are asking, is to ONLY consider one factor of what he said, without any thought given to the context and qualification, not to mention the body language. It doesnt work that way. If we are to investigate, we must look at the ENTIRE conference, not just the few words that (sort of) fit with the points you are trying to make.

I happen to agree.

Does that level of perception and examination apply to the parents, as well?

reply to post by swansong19


It's anger not grief.. Anger that people in the stores and malls around here have to even be entertaining discussion on this sort of thing.. Kind of hard to point you to quotes online when most of this is the stuff we are all just hearing waiting to pay for food, or getting gas...

But that must mean it's not true in your eyes .... People can't live in an area and hear their neighbors talking without having to have them write it out for the almighty ATS army of experts to rip apart... I'm sick of it, I am sick to death of all the accusations of actors and no-one really dying, and claims of cover up...

reply to post by captaintyinknots
I know what the official statement on weapons were on day one, and on day two.
It changed.
Along with just about every detail.

Somehow, through the power of opinion, you have debunked every listed theory, simply by saying they are wrong rather than providing evidence to support it.

Take #3 for example.
That claim is still wide open.

Originally posted by captaintyinknotsFurthermore, I ask, again, what it is that you think this proves, or contradicts.

The only thing it proves is what I wanted it to prove...that your assertion that there have been NO OFFICIAL STATEMENTS is completely, totally, 100% demostrably false.

I can only assume that if you continue to make similar assertions you are being purposefully disingenuous.

Originally posted by Sek82
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I know what the official statement on weapons were on day one, and on day two.
It changed.
Along with just about every detail.

Somehow, through the power of opinion, you have debunked every listed theory, simply by saying they are wrong rather than providing evidence to support it.

Take #3 for example.
That claim is still wide open.

No, number 3 is not wide open. People have seen the bodies, the blood. They have been to the funerals.

That they did not march dead children out there on tv for all to see, does not make a conspiracy.