Who am I? **A Story of the Struggle for Spiritual Liberation**

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom

I was wondering what are you doing here if you are looking for proof you are in the wrong place as not much in this section could be proven! We should'nt deny the possability cause we lack belief! I am very tired of all those who can't percieve something feel they need to slam it! There is such a thing as imagination! It's ok to be skeptical but when we are talking mataphysics and philosophy we have to give the OP an open mind to believe it's possable! Doing this does not make one gullible! I never place the birden of proof on the poster, we either believe them or not! Either way it is not your job to convince others by smearing the post with sarcasm!

What am I doing here? I have enough idle time at work to waste. I don't come here for quest for proof. I'm here to stretch my mind and perhaps enjoy a decent argument or two.

Obviously it's not ok to be skeptical. This is apparent. The fact that instead of proper arguments I've received only the scolding of moral advocates within this thread as if I was a child is very telling. You don't like being wrong do you. It is uncomfortable for you to doubt isn't it. It's more work. So better to shame, decry, and vilify the one who's causing it. This is the very definition of a closed mind.

I understand it's easy to take things at face value, but that involves a superficiality I've moved beyond years ago. When I question something here, I'm not doing it to satisfy some strange need to justify my own thoughts or to engage in petty bully tactics, I'm taking a bullet for you. I and others are standing up to the ones who would see you deceived.

As for my sarcasm, not a single reply aimed at me was written with an ounce of decency or respect. Irony and sarcasm is my defense and my right as a poster on this board. If you have a problem with that you may have to seek higher powers to re-write the the ATS moral code for you, because I'm not going to change a damn thing.

Perhaps when the din dies down, then there could be some serious discussion on such a facinating subject.

Great thread op.

It is extremely difficult to decide what to do with what you are shown or experience, while, trying to temper emotion, analitical thinking, and filtering of white noise is also extremely time consuming.
After a while it is obvious that something is willingly sharing too, else how could you know what you know?

It is highly possibly that by doing some of their experiments/incantations they have short circuited something, in which case they would need an engineer to fix it, this could open up travel restrictions, this would also be educational. Unfortunately without working together nothing gets fixed or shared or nutted out to something resembling an answer.
Less borders gets answers but you can not force your way through them.

If this means nothing to you, then don't worry so much about it

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
Obviously it's not ok to be skeptical. This is apparent. The fact that instead of proper arguments I've received only the scolding of moral advocates within this thread as if I was a child is very telling. You don't like being wrong do you. It is uncomfortable for you to doubt isn't it. It's more work. So better to shame, decry, and vilify the one who's causing it. This is the very definition of a closed mind.

It's fine to be skeptical as long as you place valid reasons for such a position and your remarks remain on topic! I am unsure about some of the OPs post but I fail to see how he denounces scepticism! As for me being wrong, I can say that I'm wrong most of the time! I have lots of doubts as well. You obviously have none of the abilities the OP talks about and not even intuition!
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I understand it's easy to take things at face value, but that involves a superficiality I've moved beyond years ago. When I question something here, I'm not doing it to satisfy some strange need to justify my own thoughts or to engage in petty bully tactics, I'm taking a bullet for you. I and others are standing up to the ones who would see you deceived.

You come off as arrogant and say you are taking a bullet to defend us against disinfo. There is no need for you to worry about me being decieved cause it has happened and will happen again but nothing you can do will change this! It's not easy for me to take anything for what people say it is, especially if i know nothing about it but the truth is this is one subject I am familiar with and know for a fact that the US government spent extensive time and monies researching! This should be enough for you to validate the truth about remote viewing!
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
As for my sarcasm, not a single reply aimed at me was written with an ounce of decency or respect. Irony and sarcasm is my defense and my right as a poster on this board. If you have a problem with that you may have to seek higher powers to re-write the the ATS moral code for you, because I'm not going to change a damn thing.

I did not think I was being disrespectful or indecent but if I have come off that way please excuse me cause this was not my intent! Though the first thing you posted "Of course, I think the way you avoid proving any of your claims for 'safety reasons' is quite convenient and immediately places them, and consequently the rest of your story, in serious doubt. Why are you sharing any of this if you cannot in one way prove it? Is it followers you seek? "
I don't get what you mean by stating this and I believe it is you who comes off as insulting and demeaning! Stating that the OP cannot prove anything becuase of the safety factor, that he is ingratiating to gain a following! Then in the second half of this post you go on the defensive claiming "If you have a problem with that you may have to seek higher powers to re-write the ATS moral code for you, because I'm not going to change a damn thing"
Debating is fine but the ways in which you vilify some of us is uncalled for especially when we are all trying to have a civil discussion, though you are correct that you can say what you want and i'm not trying to be disrespectful but responses such as the one above and this >(maybe that's why "I've received only the scolding of moral advocates within this thread as if I was a child") makes you come off as childish and makes you seem as though you need to defend something you said!

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


I appreciate your contribution to the thread, Misanthrope!

I'm a meditating non-dualist, and consider myself very open to the possibility of OBEs (though I have never experienced one myself), but if I have learned anything in my quest for truth, it is that blind faith in anything other than your own heart is nothing more than ignorance wrapped in pretty garb.

Doubt anything you haven't experienced for yourself, but always be open to changing your views if presented with a new experience.

Any 'guru' trying to change the mind of others while refusing to defend their statements / beliefs (where'd you go, OP?) isn't deserving of ones time.

That said, I really enjoyed reading this thread, and hope the OP returns to further contribute!

Merry Christmas all!

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


So now I'm arrogant and childish. I suppose name calling is the adult thing to do.

You're doing nothing but proving my point. Saying I stray off topic as you revile me for offending your tastes is quite the double standard. I'm doing nothing but responding in kind and I will continue to do so whether your feelings are hurt or not.

Keep calling me names, keep making yourself out to be morally superior and I will respond how you want me to.

Try talking to me as if we are equals. I am not your enemy here.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
What am I doing here? I have enough idle time at work to waste. I don't come here for quest for proof. I'm here to stretch my mind and perhaps enjoy a decent argument or two.

Coming here for a decent argument??
A superior troll?

It's fun to provoke and make an argument and get a reaction, it makes a troll feel clever and superior. They love to play with other peoples emotions. They are the sort that think it is good fun to tease children or animals.

I appreciate your contribution to the thread, Misanthrope!

I'm a meditating non-dualist, and consider myself very open to the possibility of OBEs (though I have never experienced one myself), but if I have learned anything in my quest for truth, it is that blind faith in anything other than your own heart is nothing more than ignorance wrapped in pretty garb.

Doubt anything you haven't experienced for yourself, but always be open to changing your views if presented with a new experience.

Any 'guru' trying to change the mind of others while refusing to defend their statements / beliefs (where'd you go, OP?) isn't deserving of ones time.

That said, I really enjoyed reading this thread, and hope the OP returns to further contribute!

Merry Christmas all!

reply to post by ddaniel


Good day sir! I'm glad you're getting a kick out this display. But let's be honest, my contribution to this thread is perhaps a waste of everyone's time and may more reflect my stubbornness, but it's all in good fun.

Merry Christmas.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Yes. Very few seem to realize words cannot hurt anything, and it always ends up themselves causing the harm. A paradox.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Yes. Very few seem to realize words cannot hurt anything, and it always ends up themselves causing the harm. A paradox.

The one that is trying to do harm is the one that is hurting.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


My point exactly. And every time it ends up being themselves.

ATS?

Merry Christmas.

I have to ask you all? Are you really ready to just jump right back in to this? If we start in about 1969 or so, we are looking at about 43 years of riding this pointless train to Marakesh.

The train died when 2012 fizzled. It seems the engineers are trying to shovel more coal to get up a new head of steam.

Doesn't the timing of this even strike you as slightly odd? Or that fact that this thread has also revealed, in a way, that there is a raw hunger that people have for 'the truth' and 'enlightenment'?

I know this is difficult for some of you to hear, especially those of you that feel you are old enough to know better, but, you put a lot of value in books and learning, right? Well how much more of that do you suppose a person can get done when they have 10 more years on you? 15? 20? #, 25-30?

And even so you may call our reading comprehension or critical thinking skills in to question; stupid just gets stupider as it gets older, right? Yeah, but stupid has still been around the block more than you have, has probably been taken advantage of 20X more than you have, has had the same feelings and desires exploited 50X as much as you have. And even though stupid may not be able to articulate what happened to him/her, they know what bad is.

Knowing what bad is is a dwindling commodity in our present world.

So let's get to it.

All Quotes From The OP

Spiritual evolution is the ultimate purpose for existence.

No, it actually is not. Active participation in our relationships, with everything we have to bring to the table, is the ultimate purpose of existence. All the secrets are in there, but folks were systematically told by various gurus in the 70's and on to have 'a quiet divorce' from their families, and to form new fictive families, usually based around 'spiritual pursuits'.

What the OP has written there has drawn hordes of westerners in to isolation.

Once a person is spiritually isolated, they are consumed and rendered ineffective.

Westerners do not have the benefit of, nor do they possess the social skills necessary to create, a Sangha.

The opposition by certain entities to true spiritual freedom is also the fundamental root cause of all forms of oppression in the physical world.

This is bull#, until the day comes when we can face the fact that we are the root cause of all suffering, we will get nowhere.

Are you really willing to accept that, ATS?

Are you really looking for something to shore up your faith in the idea that we are the helpless pawns of spiritual forces beyond our understanding, and that is why bad things happen to good people, and why people do bad things? Because, essentially, the devil made them do it?

Also, did you know that there is nothing here or anywhere else that gives a rat's ass about your 'spiritual liberation'?

It's true. It doesn't mean that 'spiritual liberation' is not 'real', it just means you are on your own.

Everything anyone needs is present in you right now, as you are, you are the fully loaded model. Sorry if that bums anyone out.

If you examine any type of oppressive or subversive act, and examine the root cause, then look at the root cause of that, then look at the root cause of that, and so on and so forth, it will eventually lead to a root cause involving spiritual repression.

Uh, uh, it will lead to a root cause involving human beings being really bad at being human beings.

Would someone like to argue with me that we need any help at all manifesting the most evil # in the world?

How about a New Age of personal responsibility?

When certain physical freedoms are repressed, it is always a means to an end – the end always goes back to entities wanting to prevent your spiritual liberation. Some might point to a profit motive for many injustices in the physical world, but what is the root cause of the profit motive?

Ok, so this was fun, Freud meets The Exorcist? All of the repression has opened the gate for spiritual possession?

Tell, me people, that we are not going to go forward post 2012, blamin' it on the devil.

Who or what created the mindset that permeates our culture that money, materialism, and power in this physical world are the things with which we should preoccupy ourselves and fight over? Ultimately, those things keep our consciousness’s trapped here on this plane, and prevent us from liberating ourselves spiritually.

We did.

continued...

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

My point exactly. And every time it ends up being themselves.

Bullies are bullies because they feel like a victim.
Wanting to be superior is driven by the feeling of inferiority.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

My point exactly. And every time it ends up being themselves.

Bullies are bullies because they feel like a victim.
Wanting to be superior is driven by the feeling of inferiority.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Victims are victims when they receive harm from another. When no harm is received, what are they then?

reply to post by Xoanon


Great arguments Xoanon.

How about a New Age of personal responsibility?

This is the crux of the whole issue isn't it? I think we can sum up the whole thread with this brilliant question.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

My point exactly. And every time it ends up being themselves.

Bullies are bullies because they feel like a victim.
Wanting to be superior is driven by the feeling of inferiority.

edit on 25-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Victims are victims when they receive harm from another. When no harm is received, what are they then?

Humans flit from victim state to bully state. Humans feel inferior, lacking, so they feel like victims, they feel small and insignificant and those that feel most insignificant go around and bully others to make themselves feel bigger, it makes them feel powerful - but it does not last.

And finally the penultimate and ultimate posts by the OP...

Throughout history, certain individuals and groups have had success with unlocking the ability to affect and perceive reality in ways beyond what is thought to be the “norm.” In some cases, these groups or individuals have attempted to evangelize these truths, attempting to help liberate others. And always, every single time, such efforts have been violently opposed, and the truths spoken by these groups and individuals have been suppressed, edited, redacted, forged, and otherwise made into fraudulent versions of the ideas originally propagated by these groups with almost none of the original information remaining unmolested.

Really? They have powers that we don't have and not only that, all of the 'real' information has been destroyed, so unless we are willing to rely on the OP, who is the only person with the knowledge that is kind enough to reach out, we are screwed.

I've heard this one before.

This is probably the most important paragraph in this entire thread.

One, once you “learn” to manifest your creative and perceptive abilities in a new way beyond that which you currently know, it cannot be unlearned. It is much like riding a bicycle; even if you have not ridden a bicycle in several years, as soon as you get on one, you immediately “know” or “feel” exactly what to do. It’s just something you don’t lose.

The second important fact is as follows. Even if you don’t succeed at accomplishing a certain goal (such as inducing an OBE), the act of simply trying makes it a little bit more likely the next time. Back to the analogy of doing a cartwheel, even if you’re too fat, too weak, or for whatever reason too out-of-shape to do one, simply the act of trying to do one will cause the right muscles to be strengthened for future use.

If you keep trying, day after day after day, eventually those muscles will become strong enough that you’re able to actually succeed in doing a cartwheel. Spiritual knowledge is like a muscle that is built up over time; it gets stronger as you attempt to develop it.

Yeah, don't worry if you don't feel anything at first, all of you hard work and isolation, oops, I mean dedication are going to pay off. It may be years down the road, but you are going to get there. Just keep trying, day after day, day after day...

Of course the OP hasn't told us what to do yet, but I am sure it is going to be really different from anything we have ever seen. No! wait! It will likely be something we've all seen, I am sure it has been right under our noses.

Right now, in the human condition, this muscle is extremely weak, and difficult to strengthen, but with dedication, anyone can achieve the results they desire.

But I thought that 'spiritual development' was happening at an accelerated pace now that 2012 has come and gone.

People?

Demand a new story. Create your own, then finish it.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Well since you and I can only speak for ourselves and not all humans, I must assume that you understand this from personal experience? I can see how on the internet it may appear this way, but I would hope that people interact enough with physical humans to know this isn't the case.

reply to post by Xoanon


Faith in the ATS community restored. A lucidly explained and brilliant argument.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Well since you and I can only speak for ourselves and not all humans, I must assume that you understand this from personal experience? I can see how on the internet it may appear this way, but I would hope that people interact enough with physical humans to know this isn't the case.

I watch the games people play. They don't even know that they are playing a game, they wonder why they get burned all the time. They have not realized the part they play or why they are playing it or the consequences of playing that part..
Have you ever heard of Transactional Analysis?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


By observing people do you mean physical humans or the screen you're now looking at? Avatars are not real people.