Placebo Problems

I hear people mentioning how things "aren't right", whether its pets, friends, some family members, etc. I feel this is just a placebo effect mixed with peoples natural paranoia and circumstance. Like its a self-fulfilling prophecy that "something" is wrong, just because we have been told something will happen.

reply to post by capone1


Thats a pretty powerful judgment of others minds. So tell me Capone, scientists don't even know what a pineal gland does and here you are giving psychoanalysis about peoples behavior.

Maybe leave these issues to the experts. What you are saying just sounds like a crock. If you pass off stupid unreliable information, others might take it as fact and you risk perpetuating the same effect you tried to explain with 2012.

reply to post by FirstCasualty


I see no good reason why you should be so harsh on this guy. He's basically correct. A lot of people invested a great deal of time and energy into this thing only to see it do nothing at all. That has to be disheartening to the true believers and I can understand why they might feel out of sorts. It's kind of like the day after Christmas and you didn't get any presents. Did Santa just forget your house? Were you naughty and didn't realize it? How could life be so cruel? All that anticipation, and nada. zip. Nothing. And these true believers weren't exactly trained psychologists either.

So there's a lot of cognitive dissonance to sop up here. the Savior didn't come--again, so people have to make something up. They "feel" something, and by saying so, since this is an intensely personal feeling, they don't have to back it up with anything concrete.

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by capone1

 

Thats a pretty powerful judgment of others minds. So tell me Capone, scientists don't even know what a pineal gland does and here you are giving psychoanalysis about peoples behavior.

Maybe leave these issues to the experts. What you are saying just sounds like a crock. If you pass off stupid unreliable information, others might take it as fact and you risk perpetuating the same effect you tried to explain with 2012.

I can't even see why you brought up the Pineal gland, as the OP never mentioned anything about it.

And, for someone who has not been around very long here on ATS, you sure have no understanding of what ATS is for -- to ask questions.

Maybe you are better suited trolling someplace else? I don't think ATS is a place for you.

As for the OP, yes, there can be a "placebo" effect going on, whereas the 12-21-12 prophesy really stressed people out. And, there is a lot of unrest going on right now, both in the US and abroad. It is natural for this type of stress to affect people in different ways.

reply to post by schuyler


Well if this poster has the right to come up with some theory (that im personally shocked didn't get sent straight to skunk works) that is based on his views and opinions, then I think i have the right to say that said opinion is wrong and possibly damaging.

I think it is rather childish that because something didn't happen like depicted in a hollywood movie, then that means everyone is harboring some fantasy about a comic book life with angels and chocolate fudge for everyone.

If you don't get it... stay out of it. What are you getting from trying to convince people that what they believe is false when there is no evidence that could support either true or false? What is this poster even interested in? what brought him to ATS this afternoon? Find the vulnerable and prey upon them?

Pardon me for seeking out bullies and staring them right in the face. Its a new age!

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by schuyler

 

Well if this poster has the right to come up with some theory (that im personally shocked didn't get sent straight to skunk works) that is based on his views and opinions, then I think i have the right to say that said opinion is wrong and possibly damaging.

I think it is rather childish that because something didn't happen like depicted in a hollywood movie, then that means everyone is harboring some fantasy about a comic book life with angels and chocolate fudge for everyone.

If you don't get it... stay out of it. What are you getting from trying to convince people that what they believe is false when there is no evidence that could support either true or false? What is this poster even interested in? what brought him to ATS this afternoon? Find the vulnerable and prey upon them?

Pardon me for seeking out bullies and staring them right in the face. Its a new age!

I dont feel I made any judgements on people. Every body is "crazy" in one way or another. Ill try to explain it differently hoping you can realize my point. Millions of people took a lot of time, and spent a lot of money in the possibility of the end occurring yesteday. A lot of people here on this site have devoted a ton of time justifying what they think would happen.
So in human nature, when we are expecting or looking for something to happen, the brain widens and accepts random little things as a connection to the original thought. This same thing happens in numerous scenarios. I apologized if I offended you, but I feel that I am correct.

reply to post by phantomjack


If asking a question is all that this thread was about, then excuse me weighing in. I didn't know that cross examination or questions of relevance were not allowed here. In fact I thought this site favored the skeptic, which is what i am about his theory. And since there was no mention of a PHD then i see no reason why OP's opinion is any more valid than mine.

Why did i mention pineal gland? Nobody has a clue how the brain works. My mother has a PHD in neuroscience, slicing rat brains and such, we discuss this all the time. Everything is based on theory, and whats not understood (like the pineal gland) is excluded from the models that we base everything on.

And before i take your advice and leave ATS due to lack of compatibility with a "one-type-only" membership, Ill wait to hear if i have broke any T&C from a moderator. Speaking of that i seem to remember a thread started yesterday from the staff saying that they would like to avoid any "mud slinging" from members wanting to point out to other members that there theory is wrong. I for one don't agree with that request but i will follow it.

This poster didn't not specify which theory out of hundreds he was discrediting with his placebo theory, he was generalizing that anyone that thought anything was going to happen on this date whether physical or psychological.

Which point is this poster arguing or is he/she just throwing mud in all directions?

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by schuyler

 

Well if this poster has the right to come up with some theory (that im personally shocked didn't get sent straight to skunk works) that is based on his views and opinions, then I think i have the right to say that said opinion is wrong and possibly damaging.

I think it is rather childish that because something didn't happen like depicted in a hollywood movie, then that means everyone is harboring some fantasy about a comic book life with angels and chocolate fudge for everyone.

If you don't get it... stay out of it. What are you getting from trying to convince people that what they believe is false when there is no evidence that could support either true or false? What is this poster even interested in? what brought him to ATS this afternoon? Find the vulnerable and prey upon them?

Pardon me for seeking out bullies and staring them right in the face. Its a new age!

I dont feel I made any judgements on people. Every body is "crazy" in one way or another. Ill try to explain it differently hoping you can realize my point. Millions of people took a lot of time, and spent a lot of money in the possibility of the end occurring yesteday. A lot of people here on this site have devoted a ton of time justifying what they think would happen.
So in human nature, when we are expecting or looking for something to happen, the brain widens and accepts random little things as a connection to the original thought. This same thing happens in numerous scenarios. I apologized if I offended you, but I feel that I am correct.

So are you saying that humans in general cannot admit when they are wrong and instead start to project coincidence that validate themselves? Or just 2012 believers?

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by phantomjack

 

If asking a question is all that this thread was about, then excuse me weighing in. I didn't know that cross examination or questions of relevance were not allowed here. In fact I thought this site favored the skeptic, which is what i am about his theory. And since there was no mention of a PHD then i see no reason why OP's opinion is any more valid than mine.

Why did i mention pineal gland? Nobody has a clue how the brain works. My mother has a PHD in neuroscience, slicing rat brains and such, we discuss this all the time. Everything is based on theory, and whats not understood (like the pineal gland) is excluded from the models that we base everything on.

And before i take your advice and leave ATS due to lack of compatibility with a "one-type-only" membership, Ill wait to hear if i have broke any T&C from a moderator. Speaking of that i seem to remember a thread started yesterday from the staff saying that they would like to avoid any "mud slinging" from members wanting to point out to other members that there theory is wrong. I for one don't agree with that request but i will follow it.

This poster didn't not specify which theory out of hundreds he was discrediting with his placebo theory, he was generalizing that anyone that thought anything was going to happen on this date whether physical or psychological.

Which point is this poster arguing or is he/she just throwing mud in all directions?

I have not thrown any mud. I'm sorry if I offended you.

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by phantomjack

 

Which point is this poster arguing or is he/she just throwing mud in all directions?

You are the one throwing the mud here, bud. Nobody cares if your Mommy has a PhD. Nobody cares about the pineal gland. OP has a good point and you come on like gangbusters trying to take him out with irrelevancies. Back up and join the conversation in a gentlemanlike manner. Keep on like you are and you won't last long here.

Double post

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by schuyler

 

Well if this poster has the right to come up with some theory (that im personally shocked didn't get sent straight to skunk works) that is based on his views and opinions, then I think i have the right to say that said opinion is wrong and possibly damaging.

I think it is rather childish that because something didn't happen like depicted in a hollywood movie, then that means everyone is harboring some fantasy about a comic book life with angels and chocolate fudge for everyone.

If you don't get it... stay out of it. What are you getting from trying to convince people that what they believe is false when there is no evidence that could support either true or false? What is this poster even interested in? what brought him to ATS this afternoon? Find the vulnerable and prey upon them?

Pardon me for seeking out bullies and staring them right in the face. Its a new age!

I dont feel I made any judgements on people. Every body is "crazy" in one way or another. Ill try to explain it differently hoping you can realize my point. Millions of people took a lot of time, and spent a lot of money in the possibility of the end occurring yesteday. A lot of people here on this site have devoted a ton of time justifying what they think would happen.
So in human nature, when we are expecting or looking for something to happen, the brain widens and accepts random little things as a connection to the original thought. This same thing happens in numerous scenarios. I apologized if I offended you, but I feel that I am correct.

So are you saying that humans in general cannot admit when they are wrong and instead start to project coincidence that validate themselves? Or just 2012 believers?

Are you familiar with the term "placebo"? I was using it in a specific way. Placebo can affect politicians, actors, athletes, religious leaders, you, me, etc etc.

reply to post by capone1


this is what I and some other more critical thinkers type of people have been saying lately as well, ie:
becareful of the potentially strange & curious human's brain effects of "placebo effect" ,
eg: reading so many about all these "New-Agey" and "2012" materials from many sources (that sometimes even the sources itself is doubtful, if examined more deeper and critically).

I've since asked the similar question to all those "2012" believers, "New Age", "Ascended", "Spiritualist" groups etc etc :
1) how do you know that everything you're feeling and thinking is indeed *REAL*,.. and not just because you've getting biased because of you're reading already too many "new age", "2012", "channelings" etc etc related materials, that in turn influenced your brain (and thus, "placebo effect" of you're 'feeling' the whole 2012 is true) ?

Placebo effect is just that: a placebo effect.
it is the same as wishful-thinking/fantasy.
but it still doesn't meant that it's all TRUE and REAL.
People need to know and learn about the difference.

Originally posted by dinkot
reply to post by capone1

 

this is what I and some other more critical thinkers type of people have been saying lately as well, ie:
becareful of the potentially strange & curious human's brain effects of "placebo effect" ,
eg: reading so many about all these "New-Agey" and "2012" materials from many sources (that sometimes even the sources itself is doubtful, if examined more deeper and critically).

I've since asked the similar question to all those "2012" believers, "New Age", "Ascended", "Spiritualist" groups etc etc :
1) how do you know that everything you're feeling and thinking is indeed *REAL*,.. and not just because you've getting biased because of you're reading already too many "new age", "2012", "channelings" etc etc related materials, that in turn influenced your brain (and thus, "placebo effect" of you're 'feeling' the whole 2012 is true) ?

Placebo effect is just that: a placebo effect.
it is the same as wishful-thinking/fantasy.
but it still doesn't meant that it's all TRUE and REAL.
People need to know and learn about the difference.

Perception is everything, and it changes things. Look at the dual slit experiment. Just looking at something with your own conceptions of how it should act MAKES it act that way. record what it has resulted without watching and you would be surprised. Particles don't necessarily see things our way, we just all decided thats what we are going to see.



And by your own logic, lets pretend that we might have at some point been way more spiritual that we are today. would it no have been just as possible to lose our spirituality to "placebos" like jewelery, sex, money, power. Are they real? or just an arrangement or reaction of particles?

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by FirstCasualty

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by schuyler

 

Well if this poster has the right to come up with some theory (that im personally shocked didn't get sent straight to skunk works) that is based on his views and opinions, then I think i have the right to say that said opinion is wrong and possibly damaging.

I think it is rather childish that because something didn't happen like depicted in a hollywood movie, then that means everyone is harboring some fantasy about a comic book life with angels and chocolate fudge for everyone.

If you don't get it... stay out of it. What are you getting from trying to convince people that what they believe is false when there is no evidence that could support either true or false? What is this poster even interested in? what brought him to ATS this afternoon? Find the vulnerable and prey upon them?

Pardon me for seeking out bullies and staring them right in the face. Its a new age!

I dont feel I made any judgements on people. Every body is "crazy" in one way or another. Ill try to explain it differently hoping you can realize my point. Millions of people took a lot of time, and spent a lot of money in the possibility of the end occurring yesteday. A lot of people here on this site have devoted a ton of time justifying what they think would happen.
So in human nature, when we are expecting or looking for something to happen, the brain widens and accepts random little things as a connection to the original thought. This same thing happens in numerous scenarios. I apologized if I offended you, but I feel that I am correct.

So are you saying that humans in general cannot admit when they are wrong and instead start to project coincidence that validate themselves? Or just 2012 believers?

Are you familiar with the term "placebo"? I was using it in a specific way. Placebo can affect politicians, actors, athletes, religious leaders, you, me, etc etc.

Humor me smart alec. who administered the placebo? Its difficult to give ones self a simulation of an antidote so projecting a coincidence worked well for me to understand it. You would have to be mentally unwell or a wizard in order to administer yourself a placebo. Maybe i am wrong. If not then i gotta believe you are just trolling me right now

Placebo is not administered, and not a drug. It is a state of mind.

reply to post by capone1


thanks for clearing that up lol. HOW WAS THE IDEA INSTALLED INTO THE PERSON!!! They tricked themselves into believing it was true which tells me you believe these believers to be mentally ill. Fine! what i don't get is.... Why do you care?

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by capone1

 

thanks for clearing that up lol. HOW WAS THE IDEA INSTALLED INTO THE PERSON!!! They tricked themselves into believing it was true which tells me you believe these believers to be mentally ill. Fine! what i don't get is.... Why do you care?

Here is a random, simple example to understand. Lets take a little example that recently happened in my household. Someone randomly mentioned that they think the dog may be sick. All of the sudden, people were saying things like "he seems tired", hes not cuddling enough". When in reality, he hasnt changed at all. The hyper, over observation convinces people something is not right.

Originally posted by capone1

Originally posted by FirstCasualty
reply to post by capone1

 

thanks for clearing that up lol. HOW WAS THE IDEA INSTALLED INTO THE PERSON!!! They tricked themselves into believing it was true which tells me you believe these believers to be mentally ill. Fine! what i don't get is.... Why do you care?

Here is a random, simple example to understand. Lets take a little example that recently happened in my household. Someone randomly mentioned that they think the dog may be sick. All of the sudden, people were saying things like "he seems tired", hes not cuddling enough". When in reality, he hasnt changed at all. The hyper, over observation convinces people something is not right.

that sounds like something that would happen with a bunch of kids and no adult in the room. I have never witnessed anything like that ever. If the dog is sick its cause he wont eat or sleeps all day, limps or wont walk. If those symptoms are noticed the dog should be taken to the vet. How does a dog "look" sick? they don't get pale.

I said i understood what you meant... if you were dealing with the mentally ill. What i don't get is how this applies to people that there are bigger things going on than capitalism and reality television. And more importantly, what is your concern about this that it would over take everything your interested just to question and judge what others are? how does this affect you?