US, War, China, and the European GPS System

According to European sourcings, the US has stated unequivocally, with no 'if', 'and', or 'but', that it will literally shoot down the European proposed network of global positioning satellites, better known as Galileo (a network of 30 satellites projected to be in operation by 2008), if they allow member nation, China, the ability to use them 'when' and 'if' China and the US went to war.

Quote from this article:

The European delegates reportedly said they would not turn off or jam signals from their satellites, even if they were used in a war with the United States.

US Could Shoot Down Euro GPS Satellites If Used By China In Wartime: Report

Thought...
If such a statement was made by members of the US military or government departments, does this give indications that the US is indeed seeing a time when they will have military conflict with China?
What signal does this send to China and the EU?

Comments?



seekerof

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Seekerof]

I�m absolutely shocked that they would take this stance. I swear as an American I�m feeling more and more alone in this world.

" if it was used by a hostile power such as China"

doesn't sound like when and if to me.

it sounds like if ANYONE is using then to target our boys, the we should blow them out of the sky.

i agree.

they can kiss their own GPS system goodbye in retaliation... nothing new there

however it's different when they actually state their intent... what is wrong with them?

Originally posted by kinglizard
I�m absolutely shocked that they would take this stance. I swear as an American I�m feeling more and more alone in this world.

look the EU just wants to exspand its space project its easier when you have exsperience with sending things into space.
because they wont jam or turn off thier satalites their satilites are shot down.

Well all I can say is that if they do shoot them down, I hope that if the the Star Wars system goes ahead, it is shot down. I find that system alot more scary than GPS.

If the Galileo systems was being used against US tropps in a time of war, then its fair game IMHO. Interesting that they have refused to do so. Most fo the literature I read stated that they would cooperate in such issues. I doubt that they would take down the entire system, just those in the combat area.

This makes me wonder about the response dominoes that fall when a member of an alliance is attacked. Would those aliances spring to action if the US were to disable an EU backed GPS system?

-China attacks Taiwan
-US tries to stay back but not out...takes out EU GPS to 'blind' the Chinese
-EU launches counter-strike against US GPS system
-US is no longer staying back or out, backup GPS system launched immediately (come on, you know we've got to have one, especially considering how mission critical the system is becoming)
-US uses GPS2 to target satellite killing launch sites ACROSS THE GLOBE and attacks with impugnity
-WWIII

According to European sourcings, the US has stated unequivocally, with no 'if', 'and', or 'but', that it will literally shoot down the European proposed network of global positioning satellites, better known as Galileo (a network of 30 satellites projected to be in operation by 2008), if they allow member nation, China, the ability to use them 'when' and 'if' China and the US went to war.

My problem with this is where it says that China is a member state?? is that member of the EU or member of the European Space Agency??

Why is it that when countries or groups of nations act in their own national interests that may differ from that of the good ol' US they are threatened with violence / sanctions??

Anyhoo, i don't think that the EU would be so stupid.....maybe France and Germany...and now socialist Spain would......

In all likelehood, where ever the US is in conflict you will have a load of our boys with you (Brits always go in first)....so you still think that Britain will let the enemy use our own system against us? Even if we are not with the US and the EU is neutral....the satellites would not be allowed to be used under the terms of neutrality.

i just wonder why it seems that the US govt is so eager to find a enemy.
and whenever any country's conduct displease them,they always use the method of threatening,which IMHO,is likely to caz rezentment in other coutries.

If the US does shoot them down, I hope they would have to pay for them, after the war.

Originally posted by quango
If the US does shoot them down, I hope they would have to pay for them, after the war.

provided we win of course?

I agree with the report.

If some third partys sats are helpng our enemy, they SHOULD be shot down.

Take away everyones resentment of America and think of it this way:

You belong to country A. You are at war with country B. Country C is your supposed ally, but its GPS system is helping country B. If country C does not willingly end the system, then they are not your ally, so who cares if they are shot down?

Or - if you were in the field, wouldn't you want that system taken out to protect you? Of course you would.

Personally, this is what I find wrong with all of this EU stuff. All of the countries have different intrests. So France/Germany would probably stay out of it, but covertly hope China wins and do what they can to help them. The UK and Poland would side with the US but also have a stake in the GPS system, so they may be helping the enemy.

As far as singling out China - anyone with halff a brain understands that China is the biggest threat to the US in the future, so it shouldn't be that shocking that they were mentioned.

China has been positioning it's self for years to compete with the US in the future. They want Taiwan and the US will protect them. There is a lot of tension building up between the two nations, however slowly. China is becoming a larger user of oil and is positioning themselves to be the saudis best friend. China also has stolen US nuclear missle technology to modernize it's weapons.

The US has identified that it must be able to compete with TWO future rivals - so they must be assuming that between the EU, Russia, and China two will become threats.

I doubt the US would ever shut down it's GPS system if one of it's neighbors was in a war because shutting down the system would also affect the United States.

The same would hold true for Europe.

I'm all for it, our GPS satellites are used extensively, escpecially during a war. So its a strategicly smart move to "take em out at the knees".

I wonder what weapon they would use to take out 30 sats in Geo orbit? It would be fairly cheap to have a few chemical lasers in space, that have a 360 degree spectrum.
Since ground lasers could never take them out.

I thought, I may be in error, that the GPS sats were in Geo Sync orbit. If they are, you would not have to take out the whole constalation, just the 3-7 that can be seen from the effected area. A bit easier IMHO. Wonder if they would put up a brilliant pebbles type anti sat system in orbit?

I find that the only thing that is really scary about this scenario is the people that will potentially make the decision that China is hostile.

geo

Originally posted by Nerevar
Even if we are not with the US and the EU is neutral....the satellites would not be allowed to be used under the terms of neutrality.

You�re right on this point, Nerevar.

And Fred, Shooting down only the satellites in the area of the combat-zone will only be effective for a couple of hours. It�s never the same satellites over a given area all the time. You don�t have to shoot down all 30 though. I�m not sure how many satellites have to be taken out (in a worst case scenario that is). Actually when I think about it, you might be right when you say 7. It might be more. At least 2 or 3 need to be visible at the same time to get coordinates.

If EU were allied with US in the event of a war, this system could be used as a backup-system for the US GPS-system.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
I doubt the US would ever shut down it's GPS system if one of it's neighbors was in a war because shutting down the system would also affect the United States.

The same would hold true for Europe.

Exactly what ally of ours would be attacked that we would not defend?

That is the difference - the US has this thing called loyalty, so when Canada or the UK or even France or Germany were attacked, not only would our GPS system not be working against them, it would be working for them because we would be helping them.

I wish I could say the same about France, Germany or Canada - but I don't know.

And BTW - if the US was helping our ally, i would FULLY expect the enemy to try and take out the GPS system - it is a smart move.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

That is the difference - the US has this thing called loyalty, so when Canada or the UK or even France or Germany were attacked, not only would our GPS system not be working against them, it would be working for them because we would be helping them.

How can your GPS help your allies if you shut the system down or jam the signals?
That's what they're asking the EU to do.