NRA wants armed guards in schools

Originally posted by rational1

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
People do that sort of thing for different reasons. With Columbine, you had kids that were social outcasts, who had probably been bullied for years. The school massacre in Russia was terrorists. Sometimes, people simply snap, and can't take whatever stresses they live under, and they go do something like that. That doesn't mean they were mentally ill. That means they made a bad decision. Some, sure, will be mentally ill, but that's not the big issue here. The ball player that shot his girlfriend wasn't mentally ill; he was upset because of a paternity issue. These days, the medical establishment wants to label anything and everything as some sort of mental disorder, so that they can prescribe a pill for it. If you ask Big Pharma, half the country is "mentally ill" in one fashion or another. No sensible person believes that, though.

Now, we have two (yes, two) stories of someone committing a crime, and the blame placed on Asperger's. This school shooting, and the guy that killed his father and himself, are both blamed on Asperger's now. So, how about a moment of logic? Asperger's is a mild form of autism. Autistic people do not like loud noises and chaos. Yet, we are supposed to believe an Asperger's guy shot up a school? Seems highly unlikely to me, as that isn't a violent disorder (and that's according to the professionals).

No, the goal there is to start forcing everyone to undergo a mental health evaluation, so that they can further control the masses. Now ask yourself this; if those opposing the president have already been labeled as "potential terrorists", do you think they would hesitate to also label all those people as "mentally ill"?

Think about it.

If someone makes the decision to kill innocent people I call them mentally ill. This label doesn't mean that they have to have some sort of diagnosed medical disorder - it means that they are not in normal mental condition. The bullied kids from Columbine were certainly not mentally sane, and someone who snaps from stress is not either. This is the problem.

Aspergers probably didn't cause the shooter to do what he did, yes, but this doesn't preclude his having other mental issues that put him in the mindset to become a killer. You're using a strawman there: I heard on NPR a sane discussion about the killings where they even went out of their way to say that the autism probably would not have been a factor. Not everyone is blaming it on that.

If everyone underwent a confidential "mental health evaluation" that you mention and had the option of receiving treatment I would be perfectly happy because that could easily prevent a wide range of incidents. Not just shootings, but also domestic violence, etc. And by the way, treatment does not have to mean drugs. Just having someone to talk to about your problems can be very helpful.

You can choose to call them whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it's accurate. Not everyone that shoots people is crazy, even at that moment. Evil doesn't equal mentally ill. Emotionally upset doesn't equal mentally ill. No, no strawman argument; bringing up a point the media is trying to shove down our throats. So far, we don't have any evidence of any actual mental illness. Maybe he was, and maybe he wasn't. Maybe he wasn't the actual shooter.

I think people should be able to have a mental health evaluation IF they want one, but I don't think people should be required to have one, without some real, serious reason. I don't think most being labeled as having a disorder really have one, either, and a lot that do, the system tosses out onto the streets. That system, forcing people to get into it? Bad idea all around. Check my above comment on that issue.

reply to post by Fireman205253
Thats why your here involved in this discussion. Your outlook is a plus and doesn't deserve some of the negative responses. I think on a whole the NRA has really helped to keep the 2nd amendment as close to the original intent but the NRA really should stay away from the MSM media because it cant change the issue were really in.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I have younger kids 2 under age 4. So it's not a gun safety issue yet. just worry about them getting on by accident. I used to keep a handgun close with a clip in the nightstand. But like I said the bow is there if I need it. And the guns are close. It's not like the safes are on two different floors. Me and the wife have a just incase plan. But just think of the unlucky bastard that would get a broadhead in him if he broke in. Not the way I'd want to go.

Originally posted by Fireman205253
reply to post by TKDRL

 

True. but I do keep my bow handy. I have little kids i don't want them to figure the gun thing out yet. But the bow could be quite effective, plus the wife will have time to get the guns if needed. Trust me you don't want to be around her with a gun. lol Atleast with the bow the kids can't use it cause they aren't strong enough. Plus it's hard to get to my house without being seen my closest neighbor is 4 miles away and I live the woods. I guess I would take mu chances with my bow, so my kids couldn't have an accident with my guns.

Small kids? Can understand the extra precautions. Mine are old enough to learn, and know better, so I don't need all that. The bow is a ready defense, though, and more than capable of taking down an intruder!

Originally posted by hoochymama
reply to post by Camperguy

 

I have tought soccer for 13 yrs or so and it really gives you a outlook on there family life. It amazes me the disconnect, drama, issues, etc. of parents now a days. Over the years it had become worse. I am pretty sure this has an affect in these sort of events as well.

Sounds like you would be a good mom. Its hard work to be involved with kids, thats why some folks dont bother. I basically did all the things I wanted my dad to do with me...and more. Hopefully they turn out well, they`re on their way, 2 girls in College (Teacher)(Vet Tech) and my sons going into the Airforce to be in Security Forces.

Sorry went way off topic here.

Cops in Schools!

Bill

See? Now we are all on the same page and past the name-calling and considering each other enemies. This is when the awesome stuff happens because now we can lay down some ideas.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by vonclod

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Fireman205253

 

That seems totally impractical to me..... How are you going to open up two safes, then load up in a decent ammount of time, and take the trigger lock off? If I thought like you, my lifestock would be ripped to pieces before I even had a chance to open up the safes.

edit on Sat, 22 Dec 2012 00:35:12 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

about 500 children die EVERY year by a gun found in the home and in most cases legaly owned but obviously carelessly stored

In homes where the gun owner did not teach their kids about gun safely, that can happen. Same as those kids can be hurt in other ways, because the parents didn't think to teach them to be safe. Reminds me of a little girl (6-7 years old) that lived a block over from my parents. She would, as a game, run out in the street in front of cars. Her parents were NEVER there when she did that. If they'd had a gun, she would have shot herself or someone else. My kids know about guns, and about gun safety. No mystery, so no attraction. The holes in the target, from the range, were a good selling point for guns not being toys, too. Kids can learn, and most gun owners with kids don't have them killed with their own guns. In Switzerland, every household is armed; the kids grow up knowing about guns, and they don't have kids killing other kids with them, either. Yes, factual - verified by a man from Switzerland I used to work with.

If my gun was locked up, and someone came in the window, I would not have time to unlock it, get the ammo, and load it to shoot before the guy took me out. Might as well keep a water pistol by the bed.

if my weapon was locked up under my bed it maybee takes me a minute to unlock and insert a magazine..maybee less, there is no perfect situation with this kind of thing, as for switzerland with high gun ownership why are they not killing each other like in the u.s. at the same rate per capita..it because they get mandatory training..and dare i say respect, they take it real serious, as i know alot of amercan owners do as well, im not trying to pick on anyone im just working with the info i have

reply to post by TKDRL


I have both buddy. I have a compound and a recurve

reply to post by vonclod


Country folk take it really serious as well. At least everywhere I have lived.

reply to post by TKDRL


That's when I got my first bb gun to. Also got it taken away at age 5 when i shot my grandpas garage window out. Damn bird flew right in front of the window....lol

reply to post by TKDRL
Just watched the Movie today. "dont shoot ur eye out". Parents are the key, again. Christmas Story for anyone who didnt get the reference.

I dont know of any way to 100% prevent someone from shooting up a school of 6 yr olds (hasn't happened in the US as far as I know). But, the drugs being given to our kids our sure to increase that risk.

Besides this, I remember one other a Jewish School somewhere where a gunmen shot up some kids but trying to act like elementry kids get shot up all the time and taking a dramatic step might need some consideration.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


And silent. Don't want to wake the babies up.

You realize that we could actually hammer out our differences, lay out a real plan and submit a petition? They did it to try to stop WBC, there's no reason a bunch of ATS smarties can't do the same thing to help keep families safe.

reply to post by Camperguy
Not a Mom, a Father. The Hoochymama name is just a "inside joke".

reply to post by TKDRL


Yeah country folk take firearms serious. That's why me and you are on here arguing for our guns. To be honest I don't trust alot of city people with guns.

I was born and raised in the Netherlands (Yes Europe) and I 100% back the 2nd Ammendant, i've seen the effects of gun crime in my home country, too frequently didn't I even dare walk in the bad areas that were litterally FULL with criminals and most of them armed even though we have a tough stance on gun control.
Every night I was affraid to become a statistic of a home invasion having nothing but a pellet gun for defense.

I live in the US now and I proudly own firearms, I serve in the US Army with great pride and have master my arms.

I know that my firearm is the equalizer when facing an armed threat, that being said, armed citizens will equalize the playing field when faced with an active shooter.

We need to abolish the gun-free zones and STRIKE FEAR in anyone who wish to do us harm, i'd rather not see armed police in the school but rather an armed citizen who are either volunteers or a trained security guard team.

What me MUST NOT do is (And I paraphrase) Sacrefice essential liberty for temporary safety. (or rather the illusion of safety)

I have a small thumbprint safe by my bed I put my CC in there at night before I go to bed and if I need to get to it, it is fast enough. Al my other weapons are locked up in a big gun safe. Because my concealed carry is so small I sometimes forget I even have it on me during the day it’s lighter than my wallet. I keep a 1911 locked up in the center console of my truck with two extra magazines at night my truck stays locked in the garage.

reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Thank you for your service. Good points as well from first hand experience.

Originally posted by PrincessTofu
There obviously is a sort of limbo because the economy is so bad that many people are forced to join the military for gainful employment and the promise of higher education.. they join the military just out of high school or while still living with parents.. and after the trauma they have seen, they come home and are out of touch with the materialistic, shallow society.

You can't deny that there is a huge gap there. A huge problem. And of course, they joined because there are no jobs and there are still no jobs when they come back home.

Should we immediately arm them and put them in schools? Maybe no. I'm sure 99% are the most wonderful people you have ever met but it's still a little scary. Maybe we should make some civvy adjustment courses and train them? I'd vote for that.

I joined the military right out of high school. Didn't deploy (women could not then, and nothing going on at the time), but went through training. When out, I was perfectly able to work as a civilian, and didn't have any issues as a result. Someone with PTSD isn't going to be given a permit, anyway. That isn't most that serve, either, even those deployed. The military isn't some brainwashing system, that makes people out to be little killing machines. The movie (that I like) called Soldier? That's not how it actually is. Yes, some have problems, because they see some terrible things. Some cops have problems because they see terrible things, too. That doesn't mean most could not protect a school, though. ANYONE can develop PTSD. Most in the military with that issue can get ready help. They have courses to teach one another how to spot signs, and programs to help those out that have them. Not perfect, but there is a system for that. Those issues go into records, too, and would affect who was, and was not, able to be at a school with a gun. More known background for a soldier than for most citizens, for certain!

I can understand your thinking it's scary, because that's how a lot of society and the media portrays the military these days. It's not all accurate, though. I am a veteran (way back), and the wife of a career soldier, that's deployed several times. I am far more familiar with the military than the average person on the street, and I would trust most former military to protect my kids.

The average military member is a person doing a job, for crappy pay, and little appreciation much of the time, that can't just quit and walk away, and can be placed in harm's way to protect the nation and others. Understand your concerns, but believe me, I know these people. No, they aren't all saints, any more than any other group, but they are trained, and could do a good job keeping a school safe.

reply to post by hoochymama


Drugs I can attest to. They mess you up. The time I tried to seriously take my own life, was on my first antidepressants. Not only did I have violent urges toward myself, I had them toward others as well. Most of those drugs now have suicidal urges as listed side effects, but they are fighting to keep the violent thoughts against others off the labels still. I think I might be immune to effexor, the one I am on now. It doesn't effect me one way or the other, and I have gone a few days without to see the withdrawal side effects. I didn't experience any thankfully, If I don't see any real improvement by Feb, I am going to just quit them altogether, I made a promise to myself to give it a real try.