Chinesse sub sunk by oxygen starvation

Net-C, as so often with rumours, you take your pick -anything from death-rays onward; but the gossip is that the (surfaced) sub was attacked and boarded then abandoned.
They've shown the sub -at a distance -on TV here; but nothing else.

As I mentioned above, when it happened (as far as we know) the skies were a-buzz with planes all day, for 2-3 days, and not search-planes or helicopters: all were naval fighters/fighter-bombers.

Very interesting. Seems like NK has something to do with this. a loss of life is a loss of life...no matter wheter communist or not.

I just went to the U-boat exihibit in the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago the oter day. Interesting stuff.

A ceremony is being held to-day ( utterly mad since inter-provincial travel is effectively impossible at the moment owing to SARS but -happily -most immediate family live in the naval estates here). Foreigners are banned from the naval areas so I'll see it only on local TV.

I must say that, in the light of what Byrd and Mad-S posted, I find that even picturing the lives of submariners is enormously difficult and I am sure that those who are or were submariners must share a common bond that transcends politics and the posturing of demagogues.
The mention of U-Boats here reminds one that the figures were something like 1,000 commissioned and 700 sunk (that's rough, from memory).
It's hard to imagine any branch of any service ( I include Bomber Command in WWII) -bar kamikazes - that could report such figures.

The U-boat loss figures are about right. The Kriegsmarine suffered horrendous losses during the war. Their losses were far worse than the Luftwaffe's. Even in the US Navy, sub losses were much higher than any other service. Hoever about the No. 361, read an article (believe Jane's) which stated that the sub was recovered surfaced and was being towed back to port.
This source stated that the men might of died from a leak of sea water into the batteries (produces chlorine gas). The offical reports of the Chinese (men dead at their stations) still does not ring true with either asphyxiation or chlorine gas. You would expect to see all sorts of evidence of activity to correct the problem.
Since the sub appeared to be surfaced, why didn't they vent the sub by opening the hatches. Also has the Chinese government released any autopsy reports?
And has there been any explanation why 70 men were aboard when the normal crew was around 55 men?

The "official" story has been repeated every day, j-flieger and, as you say, it rings completely false.
The commonest rumour continues to be something to do with N. Korea.

I still think it was standard Kriegsmarine practice to have men in the conning tower cockpit (that's outside the U-boat) whenever the U-boat was running on the surface regardless of the weather. You never ran the sub on the surface without lookouts topside. Also the hatch into the conning tower was always left open while men were topside. Those men never went down below until the sub was starting down. If No. 361 was running on the surface, then why wasn't someone outside (and would have survived)? Does anyone know what is standard pratice in the world's navies concerning look outs when submarines are running on the surface?

But they were "running silent"; underwater.

CO2 is odorless and kills very quickly (that's why it's used in euthanizing animals at the pound.) In those old subs they had no air quality monitors -- and as quick as the buildup can be (2 minutes) it's doubtful they could have done anything. By the time they got to the surface, they would have been unconscious and unable to open hatches.

If No. 361 was running silent, then it was submerged. By the news accounts, the sub was recovered on the surface (remember the sub was towed to port) and the offical Chinese story indicates no indcations that the crew was responding to a emergency. If an emergency in any of the ventalation systems was detected while the sub was submerged, then the crew would have deployed the munson lungs. If no emergency had been detected and the crew died, then the sub would have gone to the bottom. In all the years of submarine history (going back to before 1900), can you tell me of any other single instance in which the entire crew of a submarine died and the submarine was not lost and went to the bottom? This is the first time I have ever heard of an entire crew of a submarine being lost but the submarine was still recoverable (simply by towing back to port). The Chinese government is not telling the whole story here as how this disaster happened.

Absolutely so, j-flieger: the "party line" is that -the vessel was on the surface, everyone was inside and some mysterious fumes killed everyone instantly.
It is the most absolute rot, it really is.

This is the first time I have ever heard of someone losing the crew but saving the sub!!!!!!!!!!!! The correct procedure is to lose the sub but save the crew. It seems that the Chinese government has it backward.

[Edited on 10-5-2003 by jagdflieger]