It will Never Happen

definately you do have the facts...the proof to back up what you are saying and I don't. The only thing I have is being the locality I am talking about. And yes it is true that for many different circumstances the system is unfair to Chinese folk. I just wanted to push that the perception held among western folk of China being controlled by such a iron fisted ruling party is not the experience for all Chinese.

So I will concur with you on your points in hopes to continue fruitful dialogue in this thread. I think after posting this thread and getting more facts from people and my own research that the question is not it will never happen, the question is now, how is their conception different to our western conception of a new world order.

I posted another thread to talk about the 5 principles Jiang Z.M. pointed out in 1999 for a Chinese style NWO... In hopes to continue to explore Eastern thoughts on the issue. I think it's important for us to have a full comprehensive understanding of what might take place that we examine the issues from sides we may not normally think about...

Thanks for your contribution and fine rebuttal to my Jingoism

SomewhereInChina has started an interesting thread, please do not trash it with views on the way China controls its ciztens (make a thread about it if you want). Do not ruin a good thread

SomewhereInChina, thank you for starting a interesting thread

Originally posted by infinite
please do not trash it with views on the way China controls its ciztens (make a thread about it if you want). Do not ruin a good thread

I have no need for posting a thread on abuse of human rights in China. My argument, was using the arguments about human rights and totaliterianism in China, that a transition to an NWO style government, would not be that difficult. I believe I am very much on topic:

Somewhereinchina, thank for your honesty in your recent post, you have my respects for that. So can China come under an NWO, I think initially it will support it, but that is probably because of western deception. When it realses, it's role is being diminished and it is being used for western interests, it will opt out and go against it.

Remember, the culture of sex, drugs and rock and roll is a western import, and if as you say, this is becoming normalized in China now, then the first stage of the NWO is already implemented; cultural domination.

As for NWO in the eastern world. The countries that are possibly more polarized to the west are going to be suspeceptible, like India, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. In India and Japan, I believe there already are for patiort acts, I know there is one being considered in Indian parliment, but not completely sure about Japan, but I would imagine so.

The definition of NWO for everyone is the same, remember the words NWO themselves are western creations, and western plans. There are many governments in the world who are being duped by the shadow government into accepting the NWO; either by subversion, by fear, or promising them great riches and benefits. In the end, NWO is not good for anyone.

What is good for the world is mututal co-operation between states, in a one world government, empowered by the people, with adequate checks and balances, to ensure security. The NWO is not that. The NWO works on terror. It's the biggest terrorist organization in the world.

[edit on 30-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]

A one world government or NWO or whatever is inevitable. Whether you love the communism in China or not it doesn't matter, things are constantly changing. Some time in the future even China will be part of a one world government if we aren't already dead by then, i don't believe we will be but whatever.

Want to prove that China is free, go get a camera if you dont have one, get some people together, and go into the middle of a large population area and protest something trivial in the Chinese governemnt. Snap some pics and ill beleive you, otherwise all you've givin is your own views, which you so amptly condemned someone else for earlier. SO as soon as you provide some actual evidence of China being free and the NWO not posing a threat there, ill post again.

Originally posted by SomewhereInChina
There will not be a world order in the near future! NWO is such a western idea. I grew up thinking it would happen too. But after 3 years of living in China I know it will never happen. It's a fantasy, the radical fear of old world powers aligning, but only dominant western powers. Eastern powers have no interest in consolidating. So.... unless you can prove me wrong I'll be happy to just sit here and peep at all you're rhetoric.

Show me some proof, some Asian sources, that point towards eastern involvement towards the NWO.....thanx

------------------------------------------------------
some where in china
------------------------------------------------------>>>>>>>>>>





So you are privy to the inner workings of high level Chinese goverment officials ?
My cousin is married to the daughter of one.
(her influential family had 4 kids, unheard of in the general population)
My cousin is in key position at Dow Jones Shanghai.
My cousin's has a different view from yours.
He has lived there 12 years and mingles with many in power positions.
He doesnt base his views on China's mass propaganda machine that geared towards their common population.
So please go behind the most inner depths of China's closed doors and then get back to me.


PAX

[edit on 1-11-2004 by sleek]

First of all, thanks for a new perspective SomehwereinChina!
I'd like to say that I am amazed that folks can argue about what is going on in China with someone who is in China. Unless SWIC is a troll, which I doubt, why would we not believe what he is saying.

In regards to NWO and China:
NWO is not something gonna happen soon.
I agree that the East will not cave in to the West, and vice versa.
I believe their will be a power struggle between the East and the West for NWO. Perhaps in the far future, they can come to some sort of peaceful coexistence, a dual NWO.

Originally posted by SomewhereInChina
China will never let a NWO of the western ideal exist...they will always take control of their own affairs as paragraph three states

[edit on 1-11-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Delirious
Want to prove that China is free, go get a camera if you dont have one, get some people together, and go into the middle of a large population area and protest something trivial in the Chinese governemnt. Snap some pics and ill beleive you, otherwise all you've givin is your own views, which you so amptly condemned someone else for earlier. SO as soon as you provide some actual evidence of China being free and the NWO not posing a threat there, ill post again.

I'm not sure I need to rally my buddies to make a photo op just to get you to post again...but did you ever hear about SARS? It was reall Really big out here. Funny Story: One night an expat out here had a cold, during the SARS scare and got into a taxi and asked the driver to take them to the hospital, instead he drover her to some huge wharehouse where hundreds of people were lying in cots with doctors running around in bunny suits...wish I had a photo of that.

Well it was reported in the Chinese media with full coverage on their CCTV or Central China TV of local communities using bulldozers to pile dirt and debris on the highways and roads of their communities as to protest against the goverment taking patients out of the cities and bringing them into the suburuban and rural areas for treatment. I will look for any pictures, since it was in the mainstream, I'll ask my wife to help me look for one...get back to you on that...that's only one example I can think of now...the other was only a petition in my neighborhood signed by everyone, it was posted on a community bullitain board, they wanted to build a cellphone tower and everyone said no...they didn't build it.

EDIT 1 Wow you sound egotistical...i wrote a whole response, but decided to delete it...have a nice day

EDIT 2 oh yeah...this is to you sleek, but i'm sure you already figured that out....

[edit on 2-11-2004 by SomewhereInChina]

[edit on 2-11-2004 by SomewhereInChina]

Ah, don't worry, I found an entire list of crimes punishable by execution: www.amnesty.org...

poisoning of livestock
murder
attempted murder
manslaughter
killing a tiger
armed robbery
robbery
rape
causing injury
assault
habitual theft
theft
burglary
kidnapping
trafficking in women or children
organizing prostitution
pimping
organizing pornography rings
publishing pornography
hooliganism
seriously disrupting public order
causing explosions
destroying or causing damage to public or private property
"counter-revolutionary sabotage"
arson
drug-trafficking
corruption
embezzlement
taking bribes
fraud
speculation and profiteering
forgery
reselling value-added tax receipts
tax evasion
stealing or illegally manufacturing weapons
illegally possessing or selling firearms and ammunition
stealing or dealing in national treasures or cultural relics
selling counterfeit money
blackmail.

Actually, after looking at this list, I'm gonna say I agree with a lot of these crimes being punishable by death. I think WE used to hang folks for a lot of these crimes not too long ago in the USA. (OT: I think if we legalized drugs and stiffened penalties here we'd reduce crime drastically).

Most Chinese folks I know are very honest, hard working, family-oriented and take thier responsibilities very seriously. Most Americans I know have these same traits (yes, seriously, they do...don't believe everything you see on T.V.).

If China could just rid themselves of the corrupt, non-representative, government they would be a pretty nice country and probably a good friend of the USA's. (We do need to correct the trade imbalance, but I think currency exchange rates will eventually force the issue to resolve itself..with some pain involved...).

For the most part chinese people are really good. I think what gets a lot of the western propaganda going is the real problem in china. their past made everything a mess. now you have masses of people without any creativity. their cultural revolution destroyed a lot of their free will. they are slowing getting it back, and they want it fast.

best example i have now is advertising companies...they all know they need creativity to be on the cutting edge, but their past culture has skewed everyones mind so children growing up today have the burden of breaking out of it. the government is changing and i give it credit because i see it happening, the people have the burden of changing their society and it is their burden and they know they have to do it and the govt. won't stop it, they are only encouraging it

Let me guess, you're not in China

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Let me guess, you're not in China

Let's see, my IP right now is....218.6.201.136

it changes everytime i Log on.......

Somewhereinchina, I was not talking to you; I was talking to Mrnice.

Well everything you usually say to me is pretty negative so I just assumd the worse...go figure

Originally posted by SomewhereInChina
Well everything you usually say to me is pretty negative so I just assumd the worse...go figure

That's your inferiority complex, the same one, that makes you assume, anyone criticizing China, is propaganda because we are jealous. If you were not in such a state of mind, you would not be so paranoid.

My posts are only negative about China, because the facts themselves are negative about China. Anyway, that's a totally different discussion. Also, I don't think you have any rights talking about karma to me, when you are here supporting a brutal and oppressive regime, and even admit it to be unfair.

[edit on 2-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Pleeese lets try to stay on topic.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Somewhereinchina, I was not talking to you; I was talking to Mrnice.

No I'm in the USA However, I have traveled extensively to the Far East (I have a Chinese / Indonesian wife) so I do have SOME frame of reference. I have many Chinese, Indian (India), Romanian (These guys are cool�if you don�t know some Romanians you�re really missing out), American, etc� friends.

If China allowed voting I think they actually have their act together a bit better than the U.S. Most of the crap they are pulling now is because they don�t directly answer to their population. Almost 100% of Chinese I know are very conservative and a representative China would probably resemble the U.S. circa 1940-1950 (with the appropriate tech advances and their impacts applied).

If many of you remember, this country has been very conservative for most of its history. Liberalism is a strange animal on our social landscape that, thankfully, dying out with our Baby Boomers.

It's not the same without him, he brings an interesting perspective...and yes he is my friend, but that doesn't make me 100% biased..his is an annoying prick sometimes and can get really fired up on things, but I think he should be unbanned...

please consider it..if you agree with me please u2u SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by kinglizard
Pleeese lets try to stay on topic.

thank you Kinglizard

please do not ruin a good thread.