The Buddhist Paradox

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
The Buddha achieved enlightenment, and he went on to say that in order to reach enlightenment, you must get rid of attachment.

The question I bring forth is this: How could the Buddha achieve enlightenment when he was so attached to achieving enlightenment?

Interesting note: Buddha's death was caused by the consumption of bad pork and mushrooms. Because he adhered to a strict vegetarian diet, his students asked why he ate the bad pork and mushrooms served by the person that was housing him.

Discuss.

edit on 18-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Enlightenment cannot be 'achieved'. Buddha means enlightened one. The man who realized Buddhahood was not attached to 'achieving' enlightenment, it just happened.
Enlightenment is a realization, it is realized 'what is' and 'what is not'.

edit on 19-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I think his full enlightenment came before his death bed, not as he meditated under the tree as traditions say.

He wanted to fix the multiple god and goddesses system of Hinduism because he saw the worship of the statues of gods and goddesses as a fatal flaw of attachment.

He left his wife to be a poor man on the streets.

He meditated under the tree for quite some time

He put stones on his stomach to quench his hunger when fasting!

This says to me he was attached to achieving Nirvana.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Google is your friend brother

Im just wondering why you're fiddling with buddha?

Arn't you Christian?

-_- We've known each other for a year+.... If you haven't realized that my nature has a tendency to be argumentative to ALL modern traditions of religions by now, you can not call me brother anymore

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Enlightenment is a hoax...

Enlightenment is just one of MANY lies that religion will tell you:

The concept of Lucifer as the “light-bearer” for the purpose of “enlightenment” is also inspired by ancient Egyptian mythology, Roman mythology, Greek mythology, Gnosticism and Western occultism, with a primary focus of the realization of “esoteric” or intuitive knowledge, while being attributed as the true way to salvation of the soul from the impure material world and eventual goal of ascension to the “divine being”.

Likewise, although the name itself or similar terminology of “Lucifer” is not used, this is also the fundamental spiritual belief and foundational premise for most all “Eastern” religions, such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc.

The GREAT DECEPTION

Rajneesh admitted, while under the influence of nitrous oxide, that there is no such thing as enlightenment. I cannot confirm this event through other contacts, but I assume Rajneesh was simply stating what U.G. Krishnamurti has said all along; that the storybook fiction we accept of a perfect enlightenment, full of infallible wisdom, is a big lie.

Osho, Bhagwan Rajneesh, and the Lost Truth

True enlightenment only comes from God through Jesus Christ.

TRUE enlightenment cannot happen without LIGHT, the light of god.

Even though we are made to feel that the so called "enlightenment" illuminates and enlightens us, it reveals little or nothing about God.

I don't know about that. What do you mean by true enlightenment only comes from God through Jesus Christ. I have a different interpretation of that sentence because I see this part of the phrase "from God through Jesus Christ," being thrown left and right without any knowledge of what the words really mean. I am saying this with the utmost respect possible, hence why I am asking you to fully explain by what you mean by that.

Don't be so scared Murgatroid.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
What do you mean by true enlightenment only comes from God through Jesus Christ.

The true agenda behind Religion is to HIDE the truth.

Until you realize this NOTHING else will make sense. PERIOD...

Buddhism's "Path to Enlightenment" and Nirvana are two examples of this. More on this here.

Enlightenment is Satan's trick to deceive mankind to seek him as light instead of seeking the True Light: Jesus.

Enlightenment is a COUNTERFEIT which means there MUST be a genuine article.

The genuine is connecting with and walking with God (from the root meaning of the word religion)

The counterfeits are enlightenment, illumination, and ascension.

Satan always mimics what God does, ALWAYS...

He is a master of disguises.

This is why religion is probably his greatest masterpiece.

Light is what makes things visible or affords illumination.

Without light nothing would be visible.

This is why Jesus was hated by the religious people, He exposed the real deception of religion.

"The road to self enlightenment is a hard climb upwards and once you get there you'll find you really weren't going up after all, but down. I know from experience and my real enlightenment was when I found this out. Its hard to tell where your headed when darkness becomes light, and light is considered darkness. That is the great deception."

Source

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
What do you mean by true enlightenment only comes from God through Jesus Christ.

The true agenda behind Religion is to HIDE the truth.

Until you realize this NOTHING else will make sense. PERIOD...

Buddhism's "Path to Enlightenment" and Nirvana are two examples of this. More on this here.

Enlightenment is Satan's trick to deceive mankind to seek him as light instead of seeking the True Light: Jesus.

Enlightenment is a COUNTERFEIT which means there MUST be a genuine article.

The genuine is connecting with and walking with God (from the root meaning of the word religion)

The counterfeits are enlightenment, illumination, and ascension.

Satan always mimics what God does, ALWAYS...

He is a master of disguises.

This is why religion is probably his greatest masterpiece.

Light is what makes things visible or affords illumination.

Without light nothing would be visible.

This is why Jesus was hated by the religious people, He exposed the real deception of religion.

"The road to self enlightenment is a hard climb upwards and once you get there you'll find you really weren't going up after all, but down. I know from experience and my real enlightenment was when I found this out. Its hard to tell where your headed when darkness becomes light, and light is considered darkness. That is the great deception."

Source

I refuse to believe religion's main agenda is to hide truth. Why? Because I once thought that religion's main purpose was to hide truth, but I later realized this hiding of truth is just an indirect product. I believe that religion had its pure roots; people were really trying to find answers to the existential questions. What happened is that assumptions became beliefs and since these assumptions were based on the unknown and usually can not be tested, fear naturally arises. Then the cunningly deceptive used this fear to their advantage and attacked the religions from inside out.

You say
"Enlightenment is Satan's trick to deceive mankind to seek him as light instead of seeking the True Light: Jesus."
How could you possibly seek light in the dark? There's no need to seek because it's there.

By saying genuine is connecting and walking with God, you are limiting God only for a select few, and surely this is not the case. Everyone walks with God, some may choose to hold His hand.

Religion isn't satan's key weapon, it's ignorance.

When Jesus says he is the Light, in my opinion, that means he is the highest level of competence and we have the ability to be the light as well. When you are the Light, nothing is hidden. Everything that is in darkness is revealed. That darkness is ignorance. Satan is the embodiment of ignorance as he, a being that once knew of the heavenly order, fell in his pride and will never humble himself.

Enlightenment is real, just not what people expect it to be.

Double post

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

Your "god" and his religion has completely blinded you to reality.

"The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers"

Following him will lead you AWAY from God.

FOREVER...

You are on the wrong road.

I was told to look at another person who was in the fire. I saw a man with very long hair wrapped on the left hand side of his head. He was also wearing a robe. I asked the king of hell, "Who is this man?" He replied, "This is the one you worship: Gautama [Buddha]." I was very disturbed to see Gautama in hell. I protested, "Gautama had good ethnics and good moral character, why is he suffering in this lake of fire?" The king of hell answered me, "It doesn't matter how good he was. He is in this place because he did not believe in the Eternal God."

MONK SEES BUDDHA IN HELL AND LIVES TO TELL

Religion was manufactured long ago by men who wished to control the masses.

mysteryoftheinquity.wordpress.com...

Buddha's "enlightenment" was knowledge, but what is knowledge if you do not have the wisdom to execute it properly? Buddha's consumption of food knowing it would kill him, proves he was nothing but a fool, a man wise in his own ways. Behold the path political correctivity will lead you down. I can assure you, if my host offers me draino to drink at supper, i will not be politically correct.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Buddha's "enlightenment" was knowledge, but what is knowledge if you do not have the wisdom to execute it properly? Buddha's consumption of food knowing it would kill him, proves he was nothing but a fool, a man wise in his own ways. Behold the path political correctivity will lead you down. I can assure you, if my host offers me draino to drink at supper, i will not be politically correct.

Buddha, a fool? Surprised you haven't seen a lot of backfire for this, but then again, Buddhists are usually people of peace and avoid unnecessary conflict. My brother once told me as a kid what Jesus said about calling people fools... Stuck with me till this day, not because of fear, but because it would be illogical for me to call one a fool.

I'd say, Buddha felt a lot of guilt towards the end of his life. Then, near his last moments of life, he truly achieved wisdom by the consumption of the bad food as an act of compassion to his host. I think he thought that all the knowledge he had achieved was unnecessary as being a caring, compassionate person was the most important thing in the world, just as he told his students when asked of the reasoning behind his actions. The blacksmith was poor and the Buddha did not want to refuse what little food the blacksmith had to offer since the blacksmith was kind and generous to house and feed him.

Would I go so far as to call him a fool? Never.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Your "god" and his religion has completely blinded you to reality.

"The god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers"

Following him will lead you AWAY from God.

FOREVER...

You are on the wrong road.

I was told to look at another person who was in the fire. I saw a man with very long hair wrapped on the left hand side of his head. He was also wearing a robe. I asked the king of hell, "Who is this man?" He replied, "This is the one you worship: Gautama [Buddha]." I was very disturbed to see Gautama in hell. I protested, "Gautama had good ethnics and good moral character, why is he suffering in this lake of fire?" The king of hell answered me, "It doesn't matter how good he was. He is in this place because he did not believe in the Eternal God."

MONK SEES BUDDHA IN HELL AND LIVES TO TELL

Religion was manufactured long ago by men who wished to control the masses.

mysteryoftheinquity.wordpress.com...

And to respond to this... LOL, I have heard worse but seriously, living your life in fear of hell is going to be a tricky one. Why would God want you to fear hell, a place where humans don't even suffer. You say religion was manufactured by men to control the masses, and you post religious propaganda right before you say this? Please, do a little more studying because the truth is so close!

Stop living in fear to the lies of the church.

Who says Buddha remained attached to seeking enlightenment? This is perhaps where Zen plays into it... focusing on the lessons or the value of the moment as opposed to having a goal or future desire can lead to enlightenment. As for dying of eating pork... perhaps the person that offered pork as a meal suffered too greatly to provide that meal for Buddha, too great for Buddha to refuse.

ETA:
reply to post by DelayedChristmas


I didn't see this post you made til after I made mine... great minds

Originally posted by Kali74
Who says Buddha remained attached to seeking enlightenment? This is perhaps where Zen plays into it... focusing on the lessons or the value of the moment as opposed to having a goal or future desire can lead to enlightenment. As for dying of eating pork... perhaps the person that offered pork as a meal suffered too greatly to provide that meal for Buddha, too great for Buddha to refuse.

ETA:
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

I didn't see this post you made til after I made mine... great minds

edit on 25-12-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

I do the same

Ah the Zen Buddhists. One part of their philosophy I love is the fact they say the Palov Canon should not be regarded as the only way to enlightenment; it should be used as a tool. In fact, they say that regarding the scriptures as the only way to enlightenment is attachment in itself!

Although some of the Zen's rituals get a little hectic in my opinion, a lot of groups would benefit and should take heed from the Zen Buddhists's attitudes towards scriptures. Scriptures wouldn't be disregarded, but it also would not be idolized.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

The question I bring forth is this: How could the Buddha achieve enlightenment when he was so attached to achieving enlightenment?

While attachment requires a focal point, enlightenment requires an "unfocusing" ... a pulling back.... a non-discriminatory view of all information.

A Buddha's last point of attachment is Bodhisattvahood - the desire to remain here to help others advance spiritually.

The unenlightened mind is like someone stuck in the mud...
Meditation provides a rope by which one can rescue oneself from the mud.

The attachment to the rope (meditation) is only a temporary means by which to advance oneself enough to finally no longer need the rope.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

The question I bring forth is this: How could the Buddha achieve enlightenment when he was so attached to achieving enlightenment?

While attachment requires a focal point, enlightenment requires an "unfocusing" ... a pulling back.... a non-discriminatory view of all information.

A Buddha's last point of attachment is Bodhisattvahood - the desire to remain here to help others advance spiritually.

The unenlightened mind is like someone stuck in the mud...
Meditation provides a rope by which one can rescue oneself from the mud.

The attachment to the rope (meditation) is only a temporary means by which to advance oneself enough to finally no longer need the rope.

So what you are trying to say? I am just saying this because I have inkling of the point you are getting at, but I do not want to put words in your mouth.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
The Buddha achieved enlightenment, and he went on to say that in order to reach enlightenment, you must get rid of attachment.

The question I bring forth is this: How could the Buddha achieve enlightenment when he was so attached to achieving enlightenment?

Interesting note: Buddha's death was caused by the consumption of bad pork and mushrooms. Because he adhered to a strict vegetarian diet, his students asked why he ate the bad pork and mushrooms served by the person that was housing him.

Discuss.

edit on 18-12-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Enlightenment cannot be 'achieved'. Buddha means enlightened one. The man who realized Buddhahood was not attached to 'achieving' enlightenment, it just happened.
Enlightenment is a realization, it is realized 'what is' and 'what is not'.

edit on 19-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

If it is just happens, like getting a joke, then why did Buddha sit underneath the tree for extended bouts of time and place stones on his stomach? In fact, after the first time he meditated, he went back to his wife and went to meditate underneath the tree again! So if you can not achieve it, how did it just happen in the Buddha's case?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


It happened when he got sick and tired of looking. He sat under a tree and gave up. And there it was. Prior to that moment he was not a Buddha.


A monk asked Seijo: `I understand that a Buddha who lived before recorded history sat in meditation for ten cycles of existence and could not realize the highest truth, and so could not become fully emancipated. Why was this so?'
Seijo replied: `Your question is self-explanatory.'

The monk asked: `Since the Buddha was meditating, why could he not fulfill Buddahood?'

Seijo said: `He was not a Buddha.'

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

So what you are trying to say? I am just saying this because I have inkling of the point you are getting at, but I do not want to put words in your mouth.

While many people cling to the rope of meditation to get out of the mud, the enlightened mind knows that the mud was really just our own sh*t, and if we can stop crapping our pants over reality, we'll see that our feet were actually free the whole time, and we no longer need the rope!

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

So what you are trying to say? I am just saying this because I have inkling of the point you are getting at, but I do not want to put words in your mouth.

While many people cling to the rope of meditation to get out of the mud, the enlightened mind knows that the mud was really just our own sh*t, and if we can stop crapping our pants over reality, we'll see that our feet were actually free the whole time, and we no longer need the rope!

HAHAHAHA Star for the pun!

I think the reasoning you have humorously put forward would justify my opinion of Buddha's realization of being a caring, compassionate person is all that is necessary. Your thoughts?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

I think the reasoning you have humorously put forward would justify my opinion of Buddha's realization of being a caring, compassionate person is all that is necessary. Your thoughts?

When we look around at all the fools and their foolish ways, we are also seeing Buddhas-in-progress.

It is necessary to make mistakes in order to learn, therefore we should be compassionate towards those who are still busy in their mistake-making phases.

We are all fools at some point, divided against one another by our discriminating minds, but we are all destined for like-minded unity at the end of the grand process.

Compassion brings unity, callousness creates division.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

I think the reasoning you have humorously put forward would justify my opinion of Buddha's realization of being a caring, compassionate person is all that is necessary. Your thoughts?

When we look around at all the fools and their foolish ways, we are also seeing Buddhas-in-progress.

It is necessary to make mistakes in order to learn, therefore we should be compassionate towards those who are still busy in their mistake-making phases.

We are all fools at some point, divided against one another by our discriminating minds, but we are all destined for like-minded unity at the end of the grand process.

Compassion brings unity, callousness creates division.

Ah, another reason why I think Jesus said not to call anyone a fool...