Why do Christians want so badly to be persecuted?

reply to post by SilentKoala


www.persecution.org...

www.persecution.org...

www.persecution.org...

www.persecution.org...

www.christianitytoday.com...


This is only recent history, shall I go on?

32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.

Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

Originally posted by Malcher

Some are "permitted" to be discussed and examined and some are not. Evolution is a belief system and there are many instances and situations where people cannot discuss it, as you put it critically because the members who do believe it will get defensive and take it (for some odd reason) personally.

Remember anything you have not seen with your own eyes is a belief, it is taken on faith. Also remember people are biased.

and not everything you see with your own eyes is necessarily real....

All available evidence points to the theory of evolution being correct. The frustration probably comes about due the pseudo science usually put forth by disbelievers. Genuine objections, if backed, would be welcome for discussion, peer review etc. by science. That's how it works.

I have never seen an electron. Though our computers seem to work predictably as designed, people are able to generate electricity and work with it, distribute it to your home for you, safely and predictably. Electron theory.

I have never looked at a germ. Yet amoxycillin can do wonders in the right circumstances. General cleanliness and washing hands is a good thing, hepatitis a and similarly transmitted viral and germ related disease is comparatively rare where I come from. Germ theory of disease.

Have never actually seen the part of the spectrum called "x-rays" yet have faith it works, for obvious reasons. Have never seen an atom, yet have faith that nuclear weapons are real. Physics.

etc.

Not all beliefs are equal. Equating science with religious belief, as being equally faith based (if that is what you are doing), seems ridiculous.

reply to post by SilentKoala


I've never met a fellow Christian who wanted 'badly to be persecuted'. I was kinda curious when I saw your thread title and had to check it out, see if I was missing something. Can't help ya chap, I've never met anyone who desired to be persecuted, sorry.

Originally posted by micmerci
Why do people who have professed to not believe in or have no interest in Christ or Christianity have so much interest in Christians and their beliefs and behaviors?

No clue!!! Haha, I always wonder that myself. I NEVER click or participate in threads that deal with topics that I either don't believe in or have no vested interest in.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by SilentKoala

 

We can't put this persecution conspiracy to rest yet.
We still have a "War on Christmas" to perpetrate!

Continue that "war" I say!!! Christmas has nothing to do with Christianity, it's a pagan holiday adopted by the Romans. Christ was born sometime between the 2nd - 9th of September 2 A.D.

Originally posted by Tardacus
Because the bible says that they will be persecuted for being christians so they look for things to feel persecuted about so that the bible prophecy will be fullfilled. feeling like they are being persecuted gives them some kind of validation that they are good christians and acceptable in jesus`s eyes.

Seriously now, lol.. wasn't that prophecy already fulfilled during the Roman Empire?

Originally posted by Tardacus

Originally posted by tonybotzo
e'ryone wanna be a martyr!

Modern day martyrs, they aren`t being nailed to crosses or feed to the lions, they are living in their comfy homes and driving their SUV`s to church but they feel they are being "persecuted" for being christians. The christians of old would love to be "persecuted" the way these modern day christians are.
Jesus and all the christians of old who really were persecuted are probably looking down from heaven and rolling their eyes at all these modern christians who are crying about being "persecuted".
They all want to be martyrs for jesus but they don`t want to get nailed to a cross or feed to a lion to do it.
They are more comfy being martyr lite where they sit in their churches and complain about the mean evil people who are "persecuting" them.

Nonsense. Over 150,000 Christians per year are murdered for refusing to recant their faith. You might not realize this, but there are Christians outside the United States. In fact, MOST are.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Why do Christians want so badly to think they are persecuted? Why is it when their beliefs are examined with a critical eye, they throw around accusations of hate, and act like they are being "attacked"?

I've been accused of "hating Christians" and "spreading anti-Christian bias" several times on this board, on one occasion for providing some historical analysis of early Christian history (which included nothing hateful at all), and on another occasion pointing out that Muslims often have more reverence for Jesus Christ than many Christians do. I've noticed this kind of persecution complex occurs in many corners of the internet not just ATS.

Why do you people want so badly to be persecuted? Is it because Jesus predicted all of his followers would be, and now you need make sure that prediction is fulfilled so it retains its credibility? Is it that you think being persecuted gives your belief system more validity? Or do you honestly believe you should be able to declare certain things to be true without anyone being allowed to question them?

Sure, there is real persecution in many places in the world, especially in Islamic countries. There are places where Christians (along with atheists and all non-muslims) are jailed and sometimes even killed. That's real persecution. But being made fun of or critiqued on the internet while you're posting on your iPad in your mom's minivan at the McDonald's drive through on your way home from youth group is not persecution, no matter how hard you try to make it out to be.

And can we please put to rest the conspiracy that Christianity is about to be criminalized and stamped out by the government or whatever? Christianity is a multi-trillion dollar commercial industry; no way are the elite going to give up their biggest cash cow. The world's number one most popular religion is not going anywhere any time soon. In most places in the world it's growing rapidly; in China it's even beginning to be accepted into the mainstream.

So can we please end this victim mentality already? When a topic regarding religion in general or Christianity in particular comes up, I'm going to provide my thoughts, critique, and analysis in a manner that I believe makes the most worthwhile intellectual contribution to the topic at hand. It may not be something you personally agree with or want to hear, but that doesn't mean I "hate" you or am "attacking" you. Your beliefs are not immune to criticism.

Um, we don't "Want so badly to be persecuted", we just are... by ignorant fools like you! Those who prefer to bask in ignorance and disinformation and foment rumors and bear false witness... we don't create that ignorance in you - you do! And then you personally elect to make it public. So, there's the answer to your (troll) question.

Why do Christians want so badly to think they are persecuted?

Persecution comes in all shapes and sizes from words to acts. So when I view your thread and comments, I can't help but see see your statements for what they are - derogatory, snide, self-righteous and condescending towards Christians. Am I just thinking that we are persecuted when you state the following:

1. But being made fun of or critiqued on the internet while you're posting on your iPad in your mom's minivan at the McDonald's drive through on your way home from youth group..

2. But I have an interest in discerning reality...

3. I'm motivated by knowledge, and freedom.

Your very words are persecution because they indirectly state that Christians are immature, not able to discern reality, not motivated by knowledge and slaves. When you try to "critically discern reality" through your great love of world knowledge, what you are simply doing is arguing with your Creator. Instead of taking it up your issues with Him directly, you seem to rather like making these digs at His faithful. These digs aren't harmless either because just as you picked them up from others, so others will pick them up from you. This world is fast rejecting the real Christ and only one set of Christians will ever be persecuted - those who hold true faith and earnestly seek to speak the truth that this world does not want to hear. Just as you no doubt enjoy Christians who look and act like the non-believing world, so does the world. This is the brand of apostate Christianity that will be tolerated. Your comments aren't directed at them of course, but at Christians like me who will not couch Our God's words just to appease your "sensibilities". Just as the media increasingly denigrates "fundamental Christianity" and pushes it's religious views that tolerance equals love and intolerance equals hatred, you merely do the same. The world's knowledge is pure foolishness to the Kingdom of Heaven - Where there will be no libraries of Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Why would there be when they are but the vain musings of God rejecting men?

Persecution is increasing daily in our lands, but you can't RECOGNISE IT because you are too busy laying it's foundation.

reply to post by SilentKoala


Then stop persecuting Christians, and we wont feel persecuted. However, i am a little to aggressive. It's hard for me to turn the cheek because i much rather die than have someone run their mouth off to me. Something i need to work on.

There are many religions which value martyrism.

It is simple-
In dual thought, to harm another is deemed "bad" or the wrong thing to do.
This is a common ethical law. (and we can usually see a reason for it, no?)
The paradox then for those who think dualistically,
is that "good" then is to be the opposite- the one being victimized, or harmed by a "bad" person.

It is called a persecution complex. I think most religions have this and if they are persecuted it means they have gods favor. They dont want out right persecution on themselves but just hearing others have in their faith somewhere in the world makes them believe they are in the right religion. The ones that do get persecuted and pass the test of faith are held up as martyrs but they never mention the ones that give up. Even scientologist have their form. They say they are the most scutinized religion.Israel is a nation with a persecution/victim complex .It is mostly a religious mind set but I dare say it washes over into other things for example gay people because they have to put up with a lot to be who they are to the point of death in some places.

reply to post by wildtimes

In the face of so much rational, reasonable research and study, being made more and more accessible to the general public, where the Bible is being shown over and over as a forged, out-of-sequence, mistranslated, redacted,

If that were true then why was martyrdom more prevalent in Biblical times?

Originally posted by micmerci
Why do people who have professed to not believe in or have no interest in Christ or Christianity have so much interest in Christians and their beliefs and behaviors?

The reason is because God gave them a conscience to know right from wrong and they explain God away. So they poke fun at Christians for that reason. It's all that simple. They say there is no God but they know the truth all along.

To answer the question, the OP supposes that Christians want to be persecuted. Actually, they don't, but when they are, and suffer because they are Christians they realize that their Savior (and mine) was first persecuted before them. And when Jesus comes back, this persecution will have to be answered to, and all those that hated God and Christians and Jesus will find themselves on the receiving end while the righteous witness the trial before them. And those that did the persecuting will look on the faces of those they persecuted and know that their judgment is just.

And there you have it, even if you deny it. It changes nothing.

reply to post by wildtimes

Many 'Christians' that I have come across throughout my life have only one book in their homes. Only one.

NO cook books?

That may have been true at one time, and there are some that still may, but you do realize Christians come from various backgrounds I am sure.

There are doctors lawyers, scientist, mapping of the genome professors

Francis Sellers Collins (born April 14, 1950), is an American physician-geneticist noted for his discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the Human Genome Project (HGP). He currently serves as Director of the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Prior to being appointed Director, he was the founder and president of the BioLogos Foundation, an organization which promotes discourse on the relationship between science and religion and advocates the perspective that belief in Christianity can be reconciled with acceptance of evolution and science.[1] Collins also wrote the New York Times bestseller, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, which discusses Collins' conversion from atheism to Christianity, evaluates the evidence for Christianity, and argues for theistic evolution.[2]

(Director of the National Human Genome Research Institute) , one time atheist.
The Language of God (Francis Collins)
youtu.be...



I bought this new Bible a few years back AT a Christian "book" store,

The archaeological study Bible, in it they are not afraid to go into detail of the other cultures of the Levant at the varying times of the writings of the biblical texts.

I was surprised how they talked about all the things I had researched on my own many years before.

Christianity has gone through many changes, one of the major churches is now actually teaching with an understanding of the history of the region instead of only the philosophical and spiritual lessons

I don't know any Christians that only have one book in their home.

I wanted to add that the last time I went to church a few years back, the speaker was an aerospace engineer, the grandson of the pastor.

reply to post by SilentKoala


When I read this,,

Why do Christians want so badly to think they are persecuted? Why is it when their beliefs are examined with a critical eye, they throw around accusations of hate, and act like they are being "attacked"?

I thought this. Where do you have an ax to grind with people you obviously have nothing in common with, It becomes a whining rant that serves no purpose. To try to categorize everyone's reaction to a situation you're recreating is juvenile at best.

Originally posted by redhorse

Good reading. You summarize very nicely a good point about an underlined persecution theme in the bible that many people don't get from the judeo-christian mythology.

This fact make obvious when you see the influence of such mythology in third world countries where persecution and acceptance of poor living conditions is attributed to god's will.

Dr. Hannam gave a presentation at the Royal Society (1st scientific society in history and started by a creationist Christian John Wilkins who also published ideas on speciation in the 1600s, LONG before Darwin.) about how Christianity and the creationist view of the world laid the foundations of modern science that no other culture ever achieved. Dr. Hannam has degrees in physics and history from Oxford and London universities and a Ph.D. in the history of science from Cambridge University and isn't a creationist, yet agrees that the creationist view was fundamental to the development of modern science.
/68s462b

The story of modern science begins centuries ago. These are 4 areas where medieval Christianity science made unique contributions that laid the foundations for modern science:
1) CHRISTIANITY WAS OPEN TO NEW IDEAS
Christianity was open to and assimilated knowledge from other cultures

2) CHRISTIANITY PIONEERED UNIVERSITIES
A brand new institution, the university, started in the Middle Ages. It created a home for science and helped it flourish. Universities were independent corporations, not controlled by govt.

3) THE CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW HAD THE CRUCIAL FOUNDATIONS FOR MODERN SCIENCE
Christianity provided cultural and metaphysical philosophy foundations that made working in science acceptable, logical and admirable.
-Most supposed conflicts between church and state, never happened. NONE of these ever happened:
*Church tried to ban zero.
*Tried to ban human dissection.
*Banned alchemy (No. It tried to stop fraudulent alchemists selling fool's gold as gold).
*Pope tried to excommunicate Haley's comet.

CREATIONIST PHILOSOPHY AIDED SCIENCE

The criticism that Christians couldn't do science because they thought was directly running everything was God's will...is not true at all and doesn't represent medieval thought.

4) CHRISTIANITY PRODUCED IMPORTANT THEORETICAL ADVANCES
Christian scientists made important theoretical advances to show that their model was working such as the mean speed theorem,

CONCLUSION
There is no way that ancient science could have made the transition to modern science without the contributions of Christianity. Some were very good at mathematics...but they were light years from modern science. Will people finally give up this myth of a conflict between science and religion? We can hope that they will. Science can continue to progress. But, Christian principles made that possible.

youtu.be...


Intuition and Science
syzygyastro.hubpages.com...

biologos.org...

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Christianity has gone through many changes, one of the major churches is now actually teaching with an understanding of the history of the region instead of only the philosophical and spiritual lessons

I don't know any Christians that only have one book in their home.

Okay, if you want to count cookbooks, I take it back.



My point is that the more educated a person is - in Liberal Arts and Humanities (a broad background in many different subjects) - the less likely they are to have only The Bible (and a few church-ladies-compiled cookbooks for marshmallow salad and green bean casserole).....in their homes.

The world is HUGE, and it's filled with exotic ideas and different cultures and 7 billion different points of view.

How anyone can feel satisfied to be born, live, and die in one place, while following all local rules happily, and stick to the same factory job for decades until they're ready to drop dead - without hungering for more is what I don't understand.

But, point taken.