I am a British Citizen NOT an “English Subject”!!!

With the recent shootings in America I as a Brit don’t the unthinkable; I created a thread calling for greater gun control.

Now I do not wish to discuss gun control in this thread but rather another issue that it raised regarding us British and how we seem to be perceived

Many times in my debates I came across ignorant and stereotypical statements that went along the lines of this

You English are all the Queens subjects and live in an Orwellian nightmare ruled with a Sharia judicial system

A few points I wish to make, firstly I regard myself as a Scottish BritvI am from Scotland but whenever I have to declare my nationality I always say I am “British” (Scottish Brit is rarely an option). It is so frustrating when Americans or come to that any people for another country call me and my fellow countrymen “English” we are not.

Just like we are not all “English” we are not “Subjects” we are citizens, there are almost no true “British subjects” anymore we are all considered citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Brittan and Northern Ireland. The ignorant and snide remarks of “you are a subject, not a citizen” is hugely offensive it is like you do not recognise us as your equal, like you arrogantly think you are above us in some way.

What is also somewhat ignorant is you view on our laws, particularly when it comes to this odd believe that we live in a “Orwellian state”. There are some in the UK who will complain about “big brother” but for the most part the everyday Brit will never complain about it, we don’t mind it. I for one quite like the fact that there is CCTV at the ATM machine to deter a potential mugger or there is CCTV on a bus to catch out the idiots abusing the other passengers. There are limits, many parts of a true surveillance society I do not agree with but the point is this, the UK is not a “Orwellian state” we are free.

The last point, we are not subject to Sharia law, I don’t know how this myth has started but really we are not it’s just factually incorrect I am the subject of Scottish Law not Sharia law.

Hope that clears a few things up for my cousins form across the pond.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
The ignorant and snide remarks of “you are a subject, not a citizen” is hugely offensive it is like you do not recognise us as your equal, like you arrogantly think you are above us in some way.

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

What is also somewhat ignorant is you view on our laws, particularly when it comes to this odd believe that we live in a “Orwellian state”. There are some in the UK who will complain about “big brother” but for the most part the everyday Brit will never complain about it, we don’t mind it. I for one quite like the fact that there is CCTV at the ATM machine to deter a potential mugger or there is CCTV on a bus to catch out the idiots abusing the other passengers. There are limits, many parts of a true surveillance society I do not agree with but the point is this, the UK is not a “Orwellian state” we are free.

You started it and we imported it. We have as many cameras as London now. It is the beginnings of an Orwellian state.

I am reading what you are saying but none of it rings true. You are passive society dominated by authority, you have no right or capability to resist and you act that way. Your children are raised to revere authority and never question it.

You also are a homogenous society both ethnically and nationally. We are not. We have a lot of complexities that you do not have.

You want us to be more like you, but you are the one that has no idea what you are talking about. We will fight and die to prevent becoming subjected.

Hope that clears a few things up for my cousins form across the pond.

Only that denial is a state of mind.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Many times in my debates I came across ignorant and stereotypical statements that went along the lines of this

You English are all the Queens subjects and live in an Orwellian nightmare ruled with a Sharia judicial system

You must be joking. Ignorant and stereotypical statements being posted on ATS?

I'm pretty sure the Queen still considers you a subject.

i am a brit myself , born and bred Yorkshire lad , its a good thing that people have ideas about us it means were worth thinking about. as far as the world goes , we are number 1 , the history , the really crap humor that only we find funny , we have pretty much rocked it out since anyone can remember , all i will see is come live in the uk , and see what life is really like . and its not like i haven't seen the rest of the world as i was in the forces for 5 years . and if im honest the rest of the world isn't really worth much a thought

reply to post by ararisq


Where have you got the idea that British children are raised to revere authority? I'm genuinely interested as I've not seen much of it myself.

I don't think the OP was saying more people should be like the British, just that people from outside shouldn't comment unless they've experienced the society. The whole Sharia law thing is completely ignorant as well.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


Doesn’t matter what old liz thinks I am not a subject of the Queen under British Law I am a British citizen

reply to post by ararisq

We have a lot of complexities that you do not have.

How?

We have one of the most multicultural countries on earth.

Also what am I in denial about?

reply to post by ararisq


Could you please tell me you reasoning for these quotes? I have read them four times now and although I'll fight for your right to have these beliefs I can't for the life of me imagine where you gathered the information to base them on.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


ok, but have you EVER in your life said God save the queen? sworn an oath to her majesty or in any way made a pledge of allegiance to the monarchy?

An oath of allegiance is an oath whereby a subject or citizen acknowledges a duty of allegiance and swears loyalty to monarch or country. In republics, modern oaths specify allegiance to the country's constitution. For example, officials in the United States, a republic, take an oath of office that includes swearing allegiance to the United States Constitution. However, in Canada, a constitutional monarchy, oaths are sworn to the Canadian monarch.

In feudal times a person would also swear allegiance to his feudal superiors. To this day the oath sworn by freemen of the City of London contains an oath of obedience to the Lord Mayor of the City of London.

en.wikipedia.org...

If so, you are subjugated by that feudal superior. And you are then his/her subjects.

I get what you are saying, but to them you are.

reply to post by splitfamiliar


I don’t want to single out a single member but In the course of recent debates I have had many members have called me a “subject” many have also talked about the UK being a “surveillance state” that I am “English” and so on.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Why would someone do that? I think the world view of Great Britain is a little muddled.

Do Aussies actually throw shrimps on barbies?

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

but have you EVER in your life said God save the queen? sworn an oath to her majesty or in any way made a pledge of allegiance to the monarchy?

No I have never sworn an Oath to the Queen or the Monarch; I am not a very big fan of the Queen so I don’t think I have ever seriously muttered the words “God save the Queen”.

the whole oath of allegence isnt about submitting to anything , its about comeradery, and through out all out history thst has what has got us through, when the bad ytimes come we stand up together and stick out fingers up, and say lets go then

reply to post by splitfamiliar


well if you were to serve in the armed forces you might.....

England used to be a great nation, but now it's a pale clone of America. How sad!

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by splitfamiliar

 

well if you were to serve in the armed forces you might.....

iv already said i was in the armed forces 5 years 2 tours

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


People only use these words when they have not really anything to win the argument. Just ignore it, these peoole are just plain dumb and are ignorant.

reply to post by Avgudar



why compare it to us?

We think we are a pale example of any nameless European country.

We can thank the UN for that. Multiculturalism, and globalism.

Originally posted by Avgudar
England used to be a great nation, but now it's a pale clone of America. How sad!

take it your american , well to put it in perspective , at least we have been called great , and look at what we have done on out tiny little piece of land and what you have done with yours , i think your the one who may be under illusions unfortunatly

reply to post by tommo2522


that was in response to some one else who asked why one might swear an oath to the monarchy.

sooo....?

ok