Caucasions Living in Ancient China

I had heard a long time ago about some mummies discovered in China that were found to be caucasion, very tall with blonde hair. The climate is very arid and that is what mumified the people, but what is most surprising is that these remains are thought to be 4,000 years old. You can click here for a brief review. link

Now they have begun excavations once again. They estimate there are over 1,000 tombs...

Chinese archaeologists have started unearthing hundreds of tombs in an arid north-western region once home to a mysterious civilisation that most likely was Caucasian, state media said today.

The researchers have begun work at Xiaohe, near the Lop Nur desert in Xinjiang region, where an estimated 1,000 tombs await excavation, according to Xinhua news agency.

Their findings could help shed light on one of the greatest current archaeological riddles and answer the question of how this isolated culture ended up thousands of kilometres from the nearest Caucasian community.

The tombs, thought by some to be 4,000 years old, were first discovered in 1934 by a Swedish explorer, but virtually no work was done on them over the next more than six decades.

In 2003, a Chinese team started digging in the area, finding 33 tombs and nearly 1,000 relics, but had to stop because of a severe storm, Xinhua said.

www.abc.net.au...

WOS,

Do you think this could have any connection to the Scythians, or pre-Scythian race that has been alleged to have been in the western regions of China?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That is the Revelation research thread and I have recently posted research on "Gog and Magog" which talks of the Scythians.

I wonder if there could be a connection?

I watched a while back a documentary about these mummies and how people may have traveled to the area, it was very interesting.

There ARE blonds in many western/northern asian cultures,Mongolia is a prime example.Most tribes in mongolia have almost white looking blond children on occasion.From a genetic standpoint,all europeans are decended from asia.No strange races or anything like that, its just in a region where pigmentation of the skin begins to vary because of climate/sun conditions.Asian kings would take blond women from northern china as queens,and its been documented.The Blond Amazon women are traced through history to this region as well.Unless of course PBS is lying.
Perhaps, at one point in time, these blond men/women were considered more holy or something of that sort,leading to a special tomb/burial area.But over time they would find this to be common as more and more people in the north became more caucasian as they traveled farther north, most likely leading to a cultural split, based on skin color.
As far as the magog/gog connection.Genetics show that all of those areas/regions in question,were populated WELL before Noah's Time.In fact, some have suggested it takes around 4000-10000 years for a population to make a full skin color change(thats why blacks in canada/england/russia are still dark in skin color).We will never see it in our lifetimes, but down the road it will be noticed in many generations of established black familys in the northern areas.According to science guys.I think when they refer to gog/magog they are refering to those of a specific family that went north, and not all of russia.At one point the term may have been borrowed to describe russians as a whole,totaly changing it from a family lineage, to an entire culture.If so they would all have the same genetic father/mother lineages, as all of Noah's decendents should have.But, they have done many DNA lineages in all parts of the world.And it turns out that a greek can be of the same lineage as a japanese , or any culture seperated by large distance.

[edit on 24-10-2004 by LordBaskettIV]

I'm not sure that this is *strictly* on-topic (a quick disclaimer as my grasp of geography and history is generally ok ) ... but in a 'Caucasian people in Asia' kind of way - you might also like to check out some stuff on the Ainu people in Japan.

One of the theories around their origin is that they came from a Caucasian background (there are other theories too tho', I should add).
www.ainu-museum.or.jp...

Keeping off on this tangent- there was also some suggestion that the Samurai were predominantly Ainu too a little while ago ... www.jref.com...





[edit on 24-10-2004 by 0951]

The Ainu have been geneticly tracked as well, thier bloodline in pure within the Ainu people in northern japan, and traces to Mongolia,Russia.Further more,Ainu genetic markers have been found throughout ALL of japan.Geneticly the Ainu mixed with lower asia tribes in the main japan island, while still keeping a "pure" line in the north Island.Again the eventual difference in skin color of the main islanders ,breeding racism over time.

Originally posted by Valhall
WOS,

Do you think this could have any connection to the Scythians, or pre-Scythian race that has been alleged to have been in the western regions of China?

Thats some very interesting research you have come up with there Valhall, it certainly merits further investigation.

LordBaskettIV, are you saying that these are purely an Asian people who took on Caucasian like features due to the climate they lived in?

I came across a discussion about these people on another message board, there are some pretty interesting links showing caucasion-like people through Japana and India as well. Link


There are also red haired mummies there. Personally I have seen very tall, reddish (auburn) haired Chinese, I believe they are Manchurian. However (again I am guessing) I would tend to think that blue eyes are very rare among them.


Here is another very interesting article on the red haired mummies. Apparently there is alot of controversy surrounding their origins, were they true Caucasions, or were they Asian.

THE CAUCASIANS OF CHINA
SECRETS OF THE REDHEAD MUMMIES

The preservation of these mommies is remarkable.

TextTHE TOCHARIANS - THE GREAT LOST WHITE CIVILIZATION IN CHINA

One of the furthermost eastern migrations of Celtic peoples - Indo-European Nordics - reached the Takla Makan desert (situated between Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tibet) in China around 1500 BC.

This great migration was unknown until the 1977 AD discovery of 3500-year-old graves of these people. As a result of the natural dryness of the environment, many of the corpses are almost perfectly preserved, with their reddish-blond hair, long noses, round eyes and finely woven tartan clothing (usually associated with the Celts in Scotland), showing undeniably White racial traits.

This another link about the mummies,

www....[hate-site-nolink]/whitehistory/hwr6a.htm

Originally posted by William One Sac
I came across a discussion about these people on another message board, there are some pretty interesting links showing caucasion-like people through Japana and India as well. Link

The people of the subcontinent are indeed a polyglot mix of races. However a recent thesis suggest that Indians actually are NOT linked to caucasoid but pre-caucasoid people.

It's funny, because India cannot be really boxed to a single type of race, if you go to the east you will find a lot of tibeto-burmese people (Mizo, Naga, Lushai and Khasi), if you go north (kashmir), they are mostly semitic and if you go central and south its really a polyglot mix and depending on which caste you are talking about, kshatriya, brahmin, vysya, warrier, menon etc. nevertheless a mix of Astro-asiatic (tribals), Dravidian (Tamil), Indo-european(Parsi, hindu) and the negroid/negrito stock (Andaman Islands). The term Aryans really ought not to be taken in a racial context (as is done in the west), but in a caste context. Aryan, meaning noble man, was a title designated to someone who was learned (i.e. civilized) thus differentiating him from the low castes

KALASH PEOPLE OF KAFIRISTAN

What I find interesting is the story of the Khalash people of Pakistan. Nobody is sure of their origins. Here is a pic of a blonde kalash child - showing definite caucasion origins.

The Kalash Kafir (infidel) religion which is still practiced today by about 3,000 people in Chitral has a resemblance to the ancient Greek religion of gods and goddesses. This has led some to speculate that the Kalash got their religion from the invading Greeks. This is unlikely. The Greeks merely passed through in 327 B.C., probably within 50 miles of Chitral, but did not enter Chitral itself and did not stop or stay for long. What is likely is that the Kalash religion and the Greek religion have a common origin. Both came from some proto-Indo European religion which was carried along with the Indo European language when the Chitralis first got there some 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

The Chitralis are still speaking today one of the oldest Indo-European languages in a relatively undiluted form. This is not surprising in view of the remoteness of their area. They are so far up in the Hindu Kush mountains that it would be almost impossible for an invader to conquer them. By far the lowest pass into Chitral is Lowari Top, which is over 10,000 feet high, too high for an invading army easily to cross. The path up the Kunar river from Jalalabad becomes so narrow below Ashret that no invading army has ever tried it. There have been several attempts to invade Chitral within relatively modern historical times. One group came across Boroghol Pass, were defeated and went back. Another group came across Urtsun Pass. The British in 1895 simultaneously came across Shandur Pass and Lowari Top in a mission to rescue a group British hostages which had been taken. They conquered the area, which is the reason why Chitral is now part of Pakistan.

It is interesting to note the Kalash people, unlike the muslim brethren surrounding them, Love marriages are common, a woman can get divorce and marry another man of her choice if he agrees to pay double of whatever the first husband has spent on the marriage. Young men can pick their brides at the end of Joshi Chilumjusht, when the couples leave the dancing grounds hand in hand for their new homes. And wine is used abundantly on the three annual festivals, besides winters.


[edit on 24-10-2004 by aryaputhra]

Originally posted by marg6043
This another link about the mummies,
www....[hate-site-nolink]/whitehistory/hwr6a.htm

Uhmm,. marg, why are you using stormfront? They're a neo-nazi movement. The tocharians, they weren't 'white', they were a native asiatic people now extinct who spoke a subset of the Indo-European langauges (like iranian and sanskrit and latin). I'd be uber wary of anything coming from stormfront. And since when is tartan a racial trait? Hair colour is surely variable amoung asiatic populations. I don't know of any genetic studies that show the tocharians are descended from any european populations either, the normal idea behind them is that they descended from a central asian peoples.

The brown haired mummies in china are probably best looked at in the context of the ancient iranian/scythians and the ainu in japan. Its certainly reasonable to think that the ethnic groups that make up modern day populations aren't allways the same ones that made up previous populations. However, while these and other mummies may have light hair, that doesn't make them europeans. THere's only one human skin and hair pigment, all colours are due to varying concentrations of melanin. So while these people could've been pale and brown haired, that doesn't necessarily relate them in any meaningful way to modern european populations, which are obviously made up of an admixture of many many ethnicities in the first place.

aryaputhra
The Chitralis are still speaking today one of the oldest Indo-European languages in a relatively undiluted form. This is not surprising in view of the remoteness of their area. They are so far up in the Hindu Kush mountains that it would be almost impossible for an invader to conquer them

Languages are doing to vary over time irregardless of the appearance of invaders. How can it be said that these people speak an undiluted form of prot-indo-european if that lanaguage is unknown?

And wine is used abundantly on the three annual festivals, besides winters.

I would have to say that any 'greekish' influences in that part of the world probably, if not native, be a result of the greco-bactrian kingdom that once held sway there. Also, communication and trade between even southern india and as far west as italy was much more prevalent than people normally think of it as being, so there isn't much of a reason to think that there couldn't or wouldn't be cultural exchange, especially after alexander, between the occident and 'orient'. Simulatneously however, there is no reason to suppose that the religions and cultures of the near east are 'copies' of 'greek' culture, and, while there are obvious far reaching and thoroughly ancient connections that must be a result of a distant shared origin, there is certainly quite a bit of local variation on those 'universal' themes.

I did the search and stormfront came out as a good page for the mummies back ground and it had some pictures, see I am not into the racist movement and I thought the content was good.

I can get another link if that one offends people.

I'm not saying I am offended by it I am saying that if you want to find out about ethnicities in central asia and china then the last place one should look to is a white power neo-nazi group. Their headling says it all on that issue, the Tocharians aren't 'white', they're a people from thousands of years ago who are part of a migration out of central asia, not europe or even the caucus. They speak an 'indo-european' language, but so do iranians hittites and indians, so thats not particularly helpful on the matter either.

I was noting it because I figured you had gotten to the site from a search, and might want to take their talk of any "Long Lost White Empire" with a grain of salt, and any other condiments you thought appopros.

Well taking in consideration that I am latina I never look to much into the supremacy groups because they realy do not concern me at all.

But the site was good and I like the pictures.

This link is lest controversial and it tells how these people may have brought the used of textiles to china.

www.utoledo.edu...





[edit on 023131p://111 by marg6043]

Nygdan
Languages are doing to vary over time irregardless of the appearance of invaders. How can it be said that these people speak an undiluted form of prot-indo-european if that lanaguage is unknown?

I said one of the "oldest indo-european", this is what some linguists say. In fact, early linguists did class kalashamun along with Khowar, Nuristani as of the same era. However latter day observers found the language had a lot of traits to early Sanskrit. (See Page 11, Pt 14 of this document). Since most people know Sanskrit as the mother of most indo-european languages, it can thus be assumed that the Kalasha speak an undiluted form of indo-european language.

Of course, everything is based on assumptions and can be contradicted by various contra-theories.

I would have to say that any 'greekish' influences in that part of the world probably, if not native, be a result of the greco-bactrian kingdom that once held sway there.

Most people like to believe that the Kalasha could be a community sprung from a group of Alexander the Great soldiers, which then pre-dates the Greco-Bactrian kingdoms. Almost every archeologist knows ofIndo Greek kings Demetrius I onwards. But what archeologists are disputing is that the origins of Kalasha, of course, pre-dates any Greek influences in the region, even before Alexander the Great, or subsequent Greek kings, since the linguistic and cultural similarities is that of a race more linked to the Indian vedic culture. And that, I find interesting.


[edit on 25-10-2004 by aryaputhra]

I would like to point you all in the direction of a man named Spencer Wells.
Here's a good qoute for everyone.
"Tracing Human History

"As often happens in science," said Wells, "technology has opened up a field to new ways of answering old questions�often providing startling answers."

One of the old questions that intrigued Wells was the question of human origins. Whether early humans evolved in Africa or elsewhere, when they began outward migration, and where they went, are issues that have been argued among archaeologists, anthropologists, and evolutionary biologists for decades.

By analyzing genetic changes in the y-chromosome of people in all regions of the world, Wells and colleagues concluded that all humans alive today are descended from a single man who lived in Africa around 60,000 years ago.

"We're all effectively cousins, separated by 2,000 generations," he said.

In his book, The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, Wells describes the exodus from Africa that began around 60,000 years ago, and the path we took to populate the world.

Following the southern coastline of Asia, the first early travelers crossed about 250 kilometers [155 miles] of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The Aborigines of Australia, Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migration out of Africa.

A second wave left Africa around 45,000 years ago and settled in the Middle East, with smaller groups going off to India, northern China, and southern China. As the glaciers of the Ice Age began to retreat around 40,000 years ago and temperatures warmed up, humans moved into Central Asia and multiplied quickly.

Small groups left Central Asia around 35,000 years ago for Europe. Around 20,000 years ago, another small group of Central Asians moved farther north, into Siberia and the Arctic Circle. "

Just do a google for him, he has tons of acurate,DNA proven evidence.I hope his stuff can help some of you in searching about old cultures.

Originally posted by aryaputhra

Nygdan
Languages are doing to vary over time irregardless of the appearance of invaders. How can it be said that these people speak an undiluted form of prot-indo-european if that lanaguage is unknown?

I said one of the "oldest indo-european", this is what some linguists say. In fact, early linguists did class kalashamun along with Khowar, Nuristani as of the same era. However latter day observers found the language had a lot of traits to early Sanskrit. (See Page 11, Pt 14 of this document). Since most people know Sanskrit as the mother of most indo-european languages,

Sanskrit isn't thought to be the mother of most IE languages, its thought to have broken off whatever PIE was early, but thats not the same thing.

it can thus be assumed that the Kalasha speak an undiluted form of indo-european language.

I don't see how, even if one agree with all of the above. How similar is it to PIE? Wouldn't that be a better measure of 'purity' than anything else?

Of course, everything is based on assumptions and can be contradicted by various contra-theories.

I don't know about that, i heard something that contradicts it....

And that, I find interesting.

Its definitly intruiging.

LordBaskettIV, if you like Wells kind of work (I am not specifically familiar with him) you might also like L.L. Cavalli-Sforza, who also does lots of human migration studies involving dna.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Sanskrit isn't thought to be the mother of most IE languages, its thought to have broken off whatever PIE was early, but thats not the same thing.

Okay, now you are pushing the boundary even further. I meant 'mother' of all indo-european languages as in modern day indo-european languages not as in from the PIE timeline. Since Kalashamun is more closely related to Sanskrit, than say, Hindi it represents an earlier timeline.

We cannot however link the proto indo-european (PIE) to any living language. It is a language 'assumed' by linguists as the forebearer of all indo-european languages and thought to have eminated from the caucasus region. This is pure theory since nobody has come across a written form of PIE. The earliest they have come across is Hittite, I believe in Anatolian Turkey?

So in theory the timeline looks something like this:

Proto-Indo-European
____________________________|_________________________
| | | | | | | | | | |
Celtic | Germanic | Albanian | Armenian | Tocharian | Phrygian etc.
| | | | |
Italic Balto-Slavic Greek Indo-Iranian Anatolian
____|________________________
| |
Sanskrit Avestan (Zoroaster)
| |
Kalashamun, Khowar, ? (tribal) Nuristani (tribal) etc
_______|________ _____|_____
| | | |
Hindi Gujarati Punjabi (etc) Persian (etc)




[edit on 27-10-2004 by aryaputhra]

reply to post by William One Sac


I've heard that the Takla Makan are still alive today. Due to their rather "unearthly" character features, they are hidden in the Western part of Tibet, bread and fed but kept unknown. A Caucasian race that is not allowed to see the light of the rest of mankind just yet. A "story" that an old Chinese man whispered on the streets of Lhasa.

I'd like to say that these caucasians in central asia are most likely predecessors of the turkic people. Turkic people are a mixture of asiatic and caucasian. This might be when the caucaisian influenced got into the current turkic people. These people might be the people that link the altaic people with the finno-ugurians. Although i think the difference between finno-ugurian and altaic is too small to call them different language groups.