Dunblane School Massacre....ended handgun rights in UK

reply to post by Logarock

Originally posted by Logarock
These new laws did not prevent this from happening years later.

The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 1996 Dunblane massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history.

Cumbria shootings

That was committed by an ordinary, otherwise nice guy who flipped.

He legally owned his weapons, therefore had easier access to them without fear of the law locking him up.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by khimbar
Of course, there's also the theory the Dunblane shooting was a staged event, given the signatory of the shooters shotgun license. And how he'd been turned for one down before Lord Robertson intervened and signed it personally.

Yeah but isn't there a conspiracy theory related to every mass shooting? There wasn't a gun problem in the UK, it wouldn't have been staged.

Of course, it's always 'them'.

I'm not sure I understand 'There wasn't a gun problem in the UK, it wouldn't have been staged' though?

I mean what reason would they have to stage it?

Good question as it didnt led to any further subjugation of the folks in UK....yet anyway. We see the lack of personal weapons as a sure deterrent for any eventualities down the road. If such were ever the case in your country what would you do? Fall back on ol bill? The ministry of defence?

reply to post by SpearMint

what does that 14yr period have to do with what you said ??
"and there hasn't been one since"
exaggerate much ?

Originally posted by SpearMint
They are made to kill people, that's their sole purpose.

I think that's a point that could be argued against. Someone who shoots clay pigeons? Someone who hunts for their table?

Are their guns made to kill people too?

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Logarock


A media driven debate.

Well, it's not a Logarock-driven debate. You only added 4 words to the quotes.

I can't see the point in North Americans trying to make comparisons with British gun laws. We don't have a comparable gun society and never have done, gun restrictions or not.

We dont need to talk about the societies here although that is something one could look into. Just showing that here or there laws never stop the madman.

Society is everything here. It's no good pointing to gun numbers and legislation if you ignore the very people that this applies to: society.

America needs to ask itself why Switzerland, who is similarly armed to the teeth, doesn't have the problems America has.

That was committed by an ordinary, otherwise nice guy who flipped.

He legally owned his weapons, therefore had easier access to them without fear of the law locking him up.



Well we dont take away all cars for bad drivers.....and the death rate is much much higher.

reply to post by KingIcarus

wow, what a reach this one is ...

Taking this discussion in super simplistic terms we've identified a link between gun violence, mental health and poverty.

really now ? how does any one of the most recent shooters fit the "poverty" label ??
especially when they were armed with thousands $$$ of dollars worth of armament ??

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by SpearMint

 

what does that 14yr period have to do with what you said ??
"and there hasn't been one since"
exaggerate much ?

Like I said, I was referring to school shootings. When I posted that it appeared to be what the thread was about. There hasn't been one since.

Originally posted by Logarock

Well we dont take away all cars for bad drivers.....and the death rate is much much higher.

See my reply on the last page as to why that's a stupid comparison.

Originally posted by skitzspiricy

The UK and US have both completely different cultures when it comes to gun laws and always likely will.

This. This, this, this.

All that happens is Americans get arsey saying the people in the UK are defenceless, and Brits get arsey saying that Americans are all rednecks with penis envy problems.

Americans love guns. They always have, they always will. Sitting here, over the ocean, typing on an internet forum will never change that fact.

Nor should we try. When America itself decides it doesn't want guns is the only time change will come.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Logarock


A media driven debate.

Well, it's not a Logarock-driven debate. You only added 4 words to the quotes.

I can't see the point in North Americans trying to make comparisons with British gun laws. We don't have a comparable gun society and never have done, gun restrictions or not.

We dont need to talk about the societies here although that is something one could look into. Just showing that here or there laws never stop the madman.

Society is everything here. It's no good pointing to gun numbers and legislation if you ignore the very people that this applies to: society.

America needs to ask itself why Switzerland, who is similarly armed to the teeth, doesn't have the problems America has.

Well as you have show having guns or not has nothing to do with it. So untill the US comes to some point of assention passing all maner or restrictive guns laws will stop nothing here. We cant be like UK or Switzerland and thats why the matter of society comparisons will have little use here.

reply to post by SpearMint

why are you conveniently forgetting that guns also SAVE ppl and more often than not.
how many cars do that ? and alcohol ?? yeah, sure, right.

I remember singing this petition, it was popular in the media but the media at the time was responding to a public outcry, we the British public went to our politicians after these deaths and told them “get rid of the hand guns”. It worked and since then it hasn’t happened again, America could learn quite a lot form us Brits.

We still have gun crime, but the fact is that we were strong enough as a nation to make a change the sad fact is that the American public and the American government is at the mercy of the Gun lobbies and not strong enough to stand up and put an end to their dominance and stop mass shootings like this caused by legal own guns.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Logarock

Well we dont take away all cars for bad drivers.....and the death rate is much much higher.

See my reply on the last page as to why that's a stupid comparison.

edit on 17-12-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

I wouldnt say its stupid. its just something that most believe only happens to the other guy. And what we are doing with cars is simply not using the same numbers justifications that we tend to use with firearms. We just use data hopw ever we like.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I don't want the UK's
kind of change...

football hoodlums
another good model from
over there

maybe you guys should
beg to have football & pubs
taken away

what else you guys got
we don't want

reply to post by Logarock


Cars weren't designed as instruments of death, the gun was.

It terrifies me to think of the amount of times Derrick Bird drove me home with the shopping, not knowing he was a ticking timebomb.

It grieves me to think that someone I used to go to college with, have drinks with, is no longer with us because he was unfortunate enough to run into Derrick that day.

I still remember the fear in my wifes voice when she phoned me from work telling me to get inside because someone was going around shooting people.

I have never, in 30+ years had to deal with something like that.

But then I wonder what it would be like if we didn't have such strict laws, and I don't like the answer.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by SpearMint

 

why are you conveniently forgetting that guns also SAVE ppl and more often than not.
how many cars do that ? and alcohol ?? yeah, sure, right.

Why are you comparing guns saving lives with cars and alcohol? That's a good example of the stupid arguments often used in these debates.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

who is similarly armed to the teeth, doesn't have the problems America has

you actually need to ask this question?
the Swiss don't have "gun-free" zones like the US does.
and EVERY mass shooting has occurred in a "gun-free" zone ... coicidence ??
not a chance.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I remember singing this petition, it was popular in the media but the media at the time was responding to a public outcry, we the British public went to our politicians after these deaths and told them “get rid of the hand guns”. It worked and since then it hasn’t happened again, America could learn quite a lot form us Brits.

So you dont have mass killing but you still have gun killings.....which shows the the result was weak. What are the total figures for gun murder deaths in UK from the time these laws passed? A large number even by your measure when seen in total. Certainly suggests the emotions after the mass killing were running stronger that the facts of reality.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I remember singing this petition, it was popular in the media but the media at the time was responding to a public outcry, we the British public went to our politicians after these deaths and told them “get rid of the hand guns”. It worked and since then it hasn’t happened again, America could learn quite a lot form us Brits.

So you dont have mass killing but you still have gun killings.....which shows the the result was weak. What are the total figures for gun murder deaths in UK from the time these laws passed? A large number even by your measure when seen in total. Certainly suggests the emotions after the mass killing were running stronger that the facts of reality.

Who's to say they wouldn't have climbed? You don't know what would have happened, so anything you say on the subject is speculation. You still haven't realised that it's meaningless to compare the US to the UK, it's totally different. Before the laws there wasn't a problem like there is in the US.