How LIBOR worked, and what it meant, from someone who saw the inside

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by herrw

 

Well, I think I know what solution they have picked for us.. If the system goes down I wonder how they would introduce new currency as to be valued correctly, and how would people gain access to a new currency to begin with?

I guess it all starts with debt? Or is there some other way? Couldn't we just start with money and call it debt free? Start with the amount that is the GDP, as debt free, and then just directly print money to stay in line with the growth or shrink in GDP?

In this model the banks would have to borrow money from the government, and the government would make money off that interest.. They wouldn't want to hold on to too much money if it's at interest. A tax of sorts to the government.. They would want to loan out money, while also wanting to only make good bets..

Or am I explaining some other failed way of running things?

Wow, talk about going outside of my specialty. But it is fair question, so I will do my best to puzzle it out with you.

Currently, we have a fiat currency. It is worth only that value which we ascribe to it. Currently, it is nominally basedon the industrial power of the nation, but that purchasing power is offset by the practice of Quantitative Easing (or printing money). It is doomed, eventually, to fall. I've outlined why in previous posts. It must fail. It's just a question of when.

The first fiat currency, to my knowledge, was Wampum as used by the American Indians. That currency was devalued when Europeans figured out they could print as much as they wanted. They didn't value it in the same manner as native americans, and so were able to destroy that economy.

Alternatives: gold, barter, and communism.

Honestly, there is not enough gold in the world to account for every human being's industrial potential. It just doesn't exist. Even if it did, with the exponential growth of the human race, we would quickly out-strip it. Gold, Silver, Platinum, and Paladium combined might do the trick, but again it would only be a short-term solution. Eventually we would have to find more precious metal to account for the increase of population. In the end, we would outstrip production of the resource through our increased population.

Barter works, short term, but is not translateable. It is unwieldy, and would eventually have to devolve into letters of credit. That was the start of fiat currency in the west.

Communism, in its purest form, has no currency. However, an accounting is still necessary, as one must relegate resources to individuals based on their need. As the resources are severed from the industrial potential of the individual, this also has the effect of stifling production. There just isn't a reason for someone to achieve if they cannot benefit in a realistic way from the effort. Maybe one day this will change, but for now it just isn't a good option (no matter what any utopian theorists might say to the contrary).

Each possible solution has its proponents both here and elsewhere. I suggest that perhaps a combination of solutions might be the best option. Consider:

If our most critical commodities were traded in gold, silver, platinum and paladium (i.e., raw materials, oil & energy, etc), then we could establish a baseline value for those materials and they would neither appreciate nor depreciate in value. In short, only changes in production would affect their cost, although increased production of precious metals would necessarily affect them as well.

If, after this standard was established WORLDWIDE nations were allowed to create fiat currencies, those currencies would immediately be pegged against the precious-metals currency used for raw materials. Those fiat currencies would represent the raw materials necessary to maintain the industry of their citizens. In short, 10% of the fiat currencies would probably be based on metals, while 90% would be based on population level and industrial potential.

Yes, there would be booms and busts. However, the constant value of the commodities currency would mean that such booms and busts would not have worldwide effect. Currency manipulation becomes moot if a country need not honor a particular currency. More simply put, "print all you want. We don't have to take it."

There, that's my solution. My opinions are freely given. Take them for what they are worth.

Dupe ost. Deleted.

reply to post by herrw


It took me a while to understand some of the financial babble, but I understand most of it.

Thanks for replyin!

herrw,

If the trillions (or quadrillions) which the banks have emebzzled and distributed to their shareholders or in bonusses and profits, were added up....
I wonder if they would make a signifigant contributionto the worlds economies?
How much really gets syphoned off you think %?
I see that too much is left forgotten even over the short term....
stuff like this one...

HSBC /FED scamm 10 TRILLION dollars from European banks.....
They do this by making a ficticious depost of 15 trillion in 5 tr amounts...
To HSBC....(over the signatures of Geithner and Bernanke....)
The money is lent to europes banks....and makes a 10 trillion dollar profit in real money repaid to HSBC.
Now Lord Blakenheath....House of Lords UK....outs this in a speech in the HOL...UK
Youve never heard of this?
I am not surprised.....
The truth is easily researched so go look...
What i am getting at is this...
10 Trillion bucks its in HSBCs poskets as proceeds of a collusive crime with the FED.
Why has it died in the news?
i can guess....

My point being that the Libor, the other mega ripoffs, though staggering the imagination of the average guy....
seldom get persued by the public to culmination....and the show trials and proceedings invariably end in freeing or slapping the wrists of the perpetrators....(the operative being Traitors...traitors to humanity...to all of us!)

Your insights are much appreciated by the way....I only wish we could ferret some lead out of its content, to lead us a level deeper into the rabbit warren of high monetary manipulations...
The more rabbit holes the better to see by....

Publicity is the only answer i can iagine to counter,"What is done in secret, must be shouted from the rooftops."...shared and disseminated with as many as will pay attention to it.
Sooner or later the scales will tip, and then in that magic instant...EVERYONE will KNOW.....this gestalt will turn the earths population as one towards the guilty...my ferverent prayer....
I believe that time is getting perilously closer and the controllers are capable of great evils...
They have neither nor country, nor home......just their naked lust........ Light a lamp in a cockaroach infested room,...and they will immediately scuttle for safety, falling all over themselves to cast blame on each other......
The average man is unaware of the depth and the sickness which underlies the fabric of his life and existance.
Your OP goes a long way to dispel the darkness and expose the scuttling parasites for what they are.

Somehow, i am convined that the banks and their backers, could reset the clock to zero for the entire civilisation....and still be left with plenty of dough to continue the finacial processes un interrupted basically....
The entire dollar supply in the world...barely makes up a one digit % of the imaginary dollar WEALTH ESTIMATED BY THESE PREADTORY CORPORATIONS.

The elimination of the corporate structure as an entity of social power and influence...may be the one ingredient able to modify the system towards a more HUMAN oriented system.
I know i ramble...sorry
But this type of rumination comes very close to the puzzle of the mystery of inquity....

Great thread! I've read through it but will have to go over it again. The banking stuff going on nowadays is just mind boggling and just so evil. When you come from a backround of basic religious and ethical values, believing that people should facilitate the well being of each other and that doing so will make life easier and more enjoyable for everyone, it is shocking to realize the near "absolute zero" level of coldness and non-empathy exhibited by the wealthy and privileged in society.

I think the biggest problem we have is psychological. How to win over the paranoid and greedy people at the top of the society and those scrambling to the top, to the realization that they don't need as much as they think they do and that they are taking too much off the table. There is no need for it and the world's problems could be solved in more decentralized ways if people were simply given a fair return on what they produce.

The industrial West might have had to do some rethinking if Muammar Gaddafi, for example, had been permitted to carry out his plans for Africa, but overall, Africa and the world would have been able to set out on the journey to a much better situation for everyone. It is detrimental to the welfare of the planet that Western oligarchs insist on absolute control over everything. They have a very checkered track record.

I think that "sanitary war" can be as lethal as the old "bomb them back to the stone age" style of war. The US, in the aftermath of the first Gulf War against Iraq innovated in the use of United Nations imposed sanctions to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, insisting that the sanctions be maintained for ten years despite a study that indicated that they were having a catastrophic effect and should be lifted after only one year. The sort of sophistication that can be brought to bear these days in matters of subtle, indirect asymetrical warfare is sanitary but still deadly.

On the Connecticut shooting, is Peter Lanza an important figure in the LIBOR investigations?

It seems like a long stretch to make a case that getting his son into the school shooting scenario, leading to his and his mother's death, could be a pressure point on Peter Lanza. The Colorado case is much more clear cut, with the son, in effect being held for ransom, in perpetuity by the authorities, the ransom being the cooperation of the computer expert father.

Incidentally, and as a sort of side note, Adam Lanza is being reported as being "autistic", but someone I know who is a psych major believes that he might actually have been suffering from Aspergers's Syndrome. Asperger's sufferers tend to lock on to narrowly focused details and become very angry if their mental processes are disturbed in any way, according to my friend. This is last sort of person one would encourage to become proficient with weapons or take to the target range, which his mother did, according to reports. For what it's worth.

Just a few thoughts. Excellent thread. I wish they were all like this. Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by herrw
Stirling, I wish I did have more names to give you. Keep in mind I started on this 7 years ago, and left 5 years ago. I have very little solid evidence to show anyone, otherwise I probably wouldn't be around to share it now. That being said, we need to keep a few things in mind:

The system, as it exists now, is very imperfect. It allows others to gain access to capital (as a measure of commodities) based on how many people they can control and how productive those people are when they are under their control. Retirees are not as industrious as new workers, and so the most efficient use of a population is to reduce the old and infirm, and increase the young and industrious. That is what happened in China under Mao. That is why it is important for any country to control the healthcare system--it allows control of the industry-level of the population, and therefore the employment.

Further, there is a finite measure of commodities available to the people on earth. At some point, if a nation becomes rich enough, other countries must tumble to support it. If a nation or sector becomes too rich, it forms a bubble which must burst to allow equalization. Money is fluid, remember. It seeks a constant level. All of economic theory revolves around these uncomfortable facts. Our current system does not enslave, so much as it impoverishes some at the enrichment of others.

However, no one has ever developed a system which works better Socialism tried, but that system is inefficient and simply enriches a different group of people. And, generally, socialist nations are far less free than capitalist nations. Capitalism at least perpetuates the possibility that one might increase their own station by controlling the work of those who simply want to survive.

The only cure for the boom/bust cycle is death on a wide scale. War does that, but we've managed to sterilize war to the point that it no longer even serves that purpose. In effect, we have ensured our own destruction simply by waging peace. Eventually the party ends and we all fall down. Then it is real war, and not the parody of war we have created.

I don't know. I just don't know what the solution is, or even if there is one. We have progressed as a species to a point where we must either expand or die, but there is nowhere to which we can expand. There's no more commodities for which to print money. We're borrowing against our death benefit.

wow...

not much i can say other than that.. *gulp*

Just started fact checking the murder of the CNBC executives children.

theintelhub.com...

www.bloomberg.com...

This has given me chills.

That is a hell of a thing to get close enough to actually be educated on how it really works. Sounds like a way for banks and investors to secure profit for themselves. The big problem, as you mentioned, is it breeds greed. It also created money out of thin air which is already a huge problem in the American currency system to start with.

This is quite intriguing. I completely agree that without connections that run very high, an operation like this never would have gotten off the ground. And if by some chance it did, it would not have lasted long. That is the thing...There must be higher-ups who are complicit, which means they are getting something from the deal, although they are not "directly" involved in what is going on. If they are elected politicians, they are usually more concerned with not being directly "involved," as most do not want these things to come back and bite them in the butt. Although final term politicians will take more risks to make large amounts of money, they still shy away from illegal operations that are generating income that is bound to get noticed. Unless they too have the complicity of many people, and there is no way that they themselves will have to take the fall.

So many of the decisions of these people are based around how much money they are going to make, a large portion will be extremely careful to not get into any trouble. This is done by either finding legal ways to make money, although highly immoral, and probably should be illegal...And things that are illegal that cannot be traced back to them. The people who start out with a lot of money are the ones who are going to make the most money, in the majority of situations. This is why the banking business is so large. Part of the reason anyway.

I think the scandal you just described to us goes way deeper than what you are telling us. I am not saying you are withholding information, just that you weren't "in" enough to know, as you yourself said. I'm sure that there were more illegal aspects of the operation going on, but I'm sure that those really running things are not very keen on bringing new people into the operation on their side of the deals. It just doesn't make sense, as why would they? They would not need any more capital or assets, thus they can simply focus on using what they already have to gain more. It is not surprising, considering how much money we are talking about, involved in illegal activities overseas.

The businesses of running drugs, people, and guns, are likely generating trillions upon trillions of dollars every year, and this cannot really be done legally. This is why the CIA has gotten involved in such activities...They can make more money that the government allots them every year, and thus be more powerful. Of course not many are in on what is going on however, and if they were to talk, they would be killed with no one on the inside asking any questions. Those who are killed are those that have the information to bring a lucrative operation to a grinding halt by alerting the people and authorities in a position to do something about it. Politicians in Congress will sometimes act against these entities, solely because they are seeking reelection, and the people are crying out for something to be done.

I wonder why people are going crazy over this thread, it has 0 to do with the LIBOR scandal. The OP just described angel capital investing....which still occurs, just less than the pre-crash days. There is nothing shady about it. Investors bundled money into loans for ventures which they thought had innovative ideas or business strategies, but didn't have the capital to execute it - the idea being that since they funded it when capital was needed, they could charge high interest rates and/or own a portion of the business later.

Why is it on conspiracy boards even the most mundane business transaction is made out to be something shady?

reply to post by herrw


FATHERS OF BOTH MASS MURDERERS WERE TO TESTIFY IN THE LIBOR SCANDAL
BREAKING NEWS: Sandy Hook accused shooter's father and Colorado Batman movie theater shooter's father both linked to the CENTRAL (FED) BANK controlled LIBOR (London Inter-Bank Offered Rate) SCANDAL? I'm working on trying to locate house and senate hearing notes to verify.. but even without confirmation of them both being schedule to testify, there is way too much coincidence just with the two father's professions ... And factor in some of the most pathetic attempts of journalism I've ever witnessed on both of these events with convoluted accounts and totally bogus reporting. For example there was reported three guns at the Sandy Hook shooting, and for 40 some hours two guns were in the school used in the shootings, but the automatic rifle was left in the suspect's mother's car.. Mid day yesterday that same rifle was magically now NOT in the mother's car but in the school and was the primary weapon the supposed shooter used. Blood Amazing reporting, and how convent that now this all fit's perfectly with their automatic weapons band push !! .

The father of Newtown Connecticut accused school shooter Adam Lanza is Peter Lanza who is a VP and Tax Director at GE Financial (one of the many corporations owned and controlled by the CENTRAL (FED) BANKERS). The father of Aurora Colorado Batman movie theater accused shooter James Holmes is Robert Holmes, the lead fraud scientist for the credit score company FICO which works with all major banks, and is directly connected to the function of London Inter-Bank Offered Rate.. (LIBOR).

According to numerous sources (still working on House and Senate verification) both men were to testify before the US House and Senate hearings related to the ongoing LIBOR scandal. The London Inter-Bank Offered Rate is the average interest rate at which banks can borrow from each other. 16 international CENTRAL (FED) BANK owned banks have been implicated in this ongoing scandal, accused of rigging contracts worth trillions of dollars. HSBC, a multinational banking and financial services company also owned by CENTRAL (FED) BANKERS, headquartered in London, has already been fined $1.9 billion and three of their low level traders arrested related to this LIBOR scandal.

HSBC bank fined for drug money and terrorist money laundering-UK based
Barclays interest rate rigging
Standard Chartered (UK banks US branch) money laundering
RBS-(Royal Bank of Scotland)alleged interest rate rigging
LIBOR- LONDON interbank offer rate

the City “is the most powerful lobby in Britain and possibly the world, and as a result . . . exerts enormous political influence to resist regulation and extract tax exemption. It has fostered criminality by ensuring that the City ranks amongst the least accountable of financial centres on the face of the Earth
www.greenleaf-publishing.com...

the City has been involved with drug money since the China opium wars,and as the saying goes,follow the money.
And that trail leads you to Londinium,the City.

That small 1 sq mile of land is the heart and brains of Libor. Probably much much more,dating back from the Romans,to the East India Company to today,even the Earl Grey tea you may drink and the US flag (look up the flag of the East India Company).

But I have a sneaky feeling that the real culprits of Libor-drug money laundering etc,well get off Scot free,(maybe even be given pereage

reply to post by herrw

Honestly, there is not enough gold in the world to account for every human being's industrial potential. It just doesn't exist. Even if it did, with the exponential growth of the human race, we would quickly out-strip it. Gold, Silver, Platinum, and Paladium combined might do the trick,

Ah the "there's not enough gold" myth... The problems is you are still thinking in terms of an ever expanding credit based currency such as we have now and we all know where that is heading. There is plenty of gold and silver and as you said we can use a bi-metal standard. etc. Prices always adjust to the amount of currency in circulation that is economics 101. That is why a gallon of gas used to be 25 cents and is now near 4 dollars via inflating and debasing the currency. One thing that hard money does is it can't be printed so it cuts the inflation purse strings from the government. That is why they did away with it in 1971.

We don't need to match the current amount of paper in circulation in fact we don't want to. The money supply should not expand based on some central authorities whims as it does now. It should only expand based on market demand. Prices would naturally fall if we moved to sound money monetary system and remain stable with only slow gradual increases as the economy expands from real wealth being created i.e goods and services not increasing money from nothing credit limits by printing and book entry money like today.

Our current Keynesian fiat system is on borrowed time and surviving on life support it will end soon!

Originally posted by herrw
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

Yes. Also the children of a reporter who broke the story were murdered by their nanny. And if for some ridiculous reason I ever disappear, at least the information is out there. But since I never made any money off of it, and cannot reliably generate the names of the brokers with whom I dealt (the records just don't exist any more) that is unlikely.

Yeah, that's what freaks me out -- that no alarm bells went off when a "nanny" just decides to go mass murderer on the kids that happen to be of a reporter doing the right thing.

It seems to me that the MK-Ultra is getting a bit obvious and heavy-handed. Something like Scopolamine that makes a person totally available to programming (at high doses) and then in about 3 days, they have amnesia. I'm dying for someone to do a drug test on that Batman killer -- but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen.

There's nowhere to go with theories like these -- but we've got more than a few people who suddenly -- out of the blue -- become mass killers. No priors. No training. They just flipped a switch.

We are talking about trillions in this money scam - that's plenty of money to get people to do whatever needs to be done. The batman killings happened right after the LIBOR scandal broke -- really convenient to distract the public and media. I can't see why it's that boring to be confronted with bold letter proof that the people with the most wealth and power were common criminals raking it in.

I hate reading back what I've written -- because it's dime store thriller novel. But having read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" and having read so many incidents of major scams; like the $1.4 Quadrillion that ballooned in the CDS market. It provided no value whatsoever to anyone but the players. It went Pop, and the media told everyone it was because of a few billion in defaults of sub-prime loans. When you are leveraged over 1000 to 1, any contraction would bring such a house of cards down. They blamed the ponies for the gambling.

These banksters had enough money to pay to get rid of Glass Steagal and then used mortgage deposits and bundled them with insurance to make a new deposit, and then bet that on CDS, then insured the financial instruments again and bundled those as deposits -- rinse and repeat. The Bankruptcy Reform act was foreshadowing -- it was obvious the big players knew that a collapse would happen, so they wanted the rich not to be on the hook, but the poor and the college educated to never get off the hook.

What's a little murder now and then to profits from thin air? Every family that falls apart because of bills, and every person who could have gotten medical treatment -- that's where the money went. It's death by remote control.

The only difficulty for those who've sucked out so much money, is finding some way to spend it, and not collapse an economy at the same time. I'm sure they can find all the judges and federal prosecutors they want to buy off. Our courts are stuffed with too many with the religion of oligarchy.

My only question is; what was this latest mass shooting being used to distract us from? Or is it just another 9/11 to justify another attack on the Constitution?

reply to post by hawkiye


We aren't using a Keynesian system. We are using the Laffer Curve trickle-down system designed for globalists to play labor to the lowest bidder.

Anyone dissing Keynes is a dead giveaway for someone who was educated by robber barons.

Originally posted by GoldenRuled
reply to post by herrw

 

I scanned a story yesterday with that name Libor. Havent had time to look into it yet. It went on to say the fathers of both the Conn. school shooter and the Colo.theater shooter were directly connected to Libor. Interesting if true. Some kind of Bourne Identity thing going on.

edit on 17-12-2012 by GoldenRuled because: (no reason given)

The Colo.theater shooter was NOT connected to Libor, it was disproved.

tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...

Best part, is their isn't any Libor hearing even taking place.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
reply to post by hawkiye

 

We aren't using a Keynesian system. We are using the Laffer Curve trickle-down system designed for globalists to play labor to the lowest bidder.

Anyone dissing Keynes is a dead giveaway for someone who was educated by robber barons.

Geeze when did all the friggen communist come out of the wood work.... Sigh! Keynes was a robber baron fool. Debt based centrally planned artificially inflated fiat money from nothing monetary system yep = Keynesian.... Crack a real history book instead of repeating communist propaganda.

This is the kind of post that make ATS worthwhile, and I appreciate and understand everything the OP is saying.

Absolutely amazing!

This is the kind of post that should have 100's of flags.

And members need to read over and over to understand what is actually going on in the Banking system.

Thank you OP.

reply to post by stirling


In 2008, it was estimated that 40% of ALL PROFITS were made by Wall Street -- that's without making a hamburger or anything tangible. You know, the people selling orange juice don't make as much as the people trading the futures contracts for oranges - that kind of thing.

But we can't REALLY know how much is siphoned off -- all we know is that our paychecks can barely pay for what we need, and slightly less this year than the last. As long as we can survive, and we have "enough" such that our standard of living doesn't change rapidly -- the game plays another day.