Knife's have multiple uses, guns don't

Originally posted by mrkeen
Guns? Knives? You guys are kidding. A professional trained in BJJ or Systema will kill you with his bare hands in 1-3 seconds. In military martial arts any object can be turned into a lethal weapon if it is available. And also if you ever tried to shoot at a range, you know it is not so easy to hit the target. You also need a lot of training. So basically it is not a question of firearms vs knives.

Won't be killing me if I'm 10yds away though, will he?

Firearms vs knives is always going to be a stupid argument. It's like apples vs oranges.

The question is can someone justify the ownership of a firearm that can rapidly fire large numbers of rifle calibre rounds. I (personally) believe that an individual should be able to keep and own whatever they damn well want. As has been stated untold number of times it is not the weapon that kills, it is the nut behind the butt. The problem is that too many people assume that everyone who owns (or wants to own) such a firearm is some kind of lunatic which I find quite insulting.

The arguments about different uses for these weapons is moot. The simple fact is that the US Second ammendment does not state that the right to keep and bear arms is only valid if these arms have a potential secondary function. It is there to give the average citizen the capability to defend themselves. How is that a bad thing?

Ok Im from Uk so not American
.

Now this confused me....

I understand why you would want a hunting rifle or hand gun as they do have useses outside killing human beings. But assualt weapons! Why the hell do you need one unless you plan top kill someone?

Originally posted by crazyewok
Ok Im from Uk so not American
.

Now this confused me....

I understand why you would want a hunting rifle or hand gun as they do have useses outside killing human beings. But assualt weapons! Why the hell do you need one unless you plan top kill someone?

I'm from the UK too and I think the answer to why is to with the US sense of freedom.

I mean,before Hungerford assault rifles were legal here.Before Dunblane handguns were.

As for the question of knives vs guns and there multiple uses,ever there original function,well ~

Original function ~ firearm.

Was originally invented as a military weapon,barely accurate or particularly functional for a long or reliable and safe to use for that matter which is why it took a good 100 years at least to be a real alternative to the bow and arrow or crossbow none the less it was created to kill.

Original function ~ knife.

Hard to say as did it evolve from flint tipped spears used for hunting or from handheld flint scrapers and cutters used to butcher and skin the prey that was killed.Who can say but certainly as long as people have fought they would have used whatever tools came to hand.

Yes the knife has always been a multi purpose tool that could be used to kill whereas the gun was invented for war,to kill and for defense then later used for hunting and now an Olympic sport.

But what does that mean nowadays ??

Well,speaking for myself I once was in a situation where somebody pulled out a gun and as they were 20 yrds away there seemed like there was little i was able to do.Thankfully it was a 'bigman' showing it off rather than threatening but it made me realise if the intent was there,we'd be f**kd.

I've had a knife pulled on me 3 or 4 times which is totally different.

1.They have to get up close and personal so you've got the chance of defending yourself.Whereas with a gun someone can stand across the street and you've go no hope.

2.Again being up close means they've literaly got to stick the knife into you which sounds easy but for the majority of people who feel the need to carry weapons it isn't and that hesitation is what gives you the chance to grab it.Of course there are those that have no qualms using a knife but again no hesitation in defence is the key (you can tell by demeanour and eyes whether they'll hesitate or not,in my exp if they won't grab the blade first).

I'm not wary of guns as I very,very rarely see them or associate with people who would have them whereas I'm wary of people having knifes.

A nervous gun user is dangerous,maybe that might make them stand further away and more likely to miss giving me the chance to leg it.lol.

A nervous knife wielder in dangerous and unpredictable and because they have to be close up can do you a serious or fatal injury however ready and aware you are.

in the US the amount of guns are such that carrying for self defense seems reasonable if not wise whereas the significant increase in knife crime here in the last decade has driven many young men to carry for defense making a lot of twitchy knife wielders out there.

I mention that because of all people from the US who say we're mad not to want guns in the UK.Well,with the way things have gone recently with knives,giving them guns would be insane,the very act of getting up close and personal to the point where you can look right in their eyes,have to physically plunge that blade into them and have their blood n guts all over you puts so many off actually doing it.Knifing someone is horribly visceral !!!

Give them a gun where they can stand 25~30 yards away,at a distant and more inpersonal then a lot of these little 'wide boys' may well pull the trigger !!!

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Gun's are made for one thing, to KILL, simple as that, if someone knows of another use for a gun other than ending life, can you please share it with me.

Clay pigeon shooting.

Nice one, but are the not large rifle types, with special bullets, not the type you can fire in rapid succession? I could be wrong as i know nothing about guns, only they are designed to take away life.

And you just stated the problem. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GUNS. Until you have knowledge about a subject don't make threads inserting your opinion. Ask questions from intelligent people, research and from an actual opinion based on facts and knowledge, not what the government and media feed you.

Throwing knives, double and triple edge knives, knives with brass knuckles as grips, knives with knives attached to knives....

Your move.

Lets just put everyone in a bubble with feeding tubes and nature sounds. That would stop people from dying. I think I would want by bubble filled with sounds of rain on a tin roof. Reminds me of my trailor park days.

We would have to ban "knife's" though, as they could puncture my bubble.

So we should ban guns or some of them, simply because they can inflict damage faster than a knife? More people survive bullet wounds than survive stab and cut wounds. If i am in tip top condition and I run into a room full of people, I think that I could inflict close to as much damage with the knife as I could with a gun.

Now of course if I have an ak-47 then I can shoot a lot of people faster, but that doesnt automatically imply that more people are going to die. With a knife, good physical fitness, and intent, I could destroy a large number of people with my blade.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Swizzy
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

Knifes can kill just as quickly is handled properly.

Not really. In a single instance, maybe: comparing one shot against one shot/throw maybe. But pulling the knife out of one body in order to stab someone else, and again and again? No comparison to the hit rate of a gun.

A gun is also a poor weapon if the handler has no clue/experience so the 99% death rate you mentioned is farcical at best.

Which casts a shadow on the usefulness of the 2nd amendment.

Originally posted by juleol

Originally posted by Swizzy
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

Not every shot is fatal. Just like not every knife wound is fatal... your argument is rather weak.

There is still a huge difference. Take for example the stabbing in china where 20 children was involved. Nearly everyone survived and are just injured. If this same person had a gun, then most if not all would be dead.
Why is this FACT so damn hard to understand?? There is a reason why USA is ontop of the western world when it comes to death by gunshots.

If this guy only had a knife then there is no way he would have been able to kill that many.

edit on 16-12-2012 by juleol because: (no reason given)

Yeah, but even if guns were illegal he still would have gotten a hold of one and used it.

So, yes, guns are "better killers" than knives....

... but so are chain saws, or home-made pipe bombs... or cars...

What is the truth of the matter that you people don't get?

Just because something is "illegal" doesn't mean it isn't going to happen, or that it isn't going to exist.

This should be 100% clear. Just look at reality.

Originally posted by Undeadlady
The reason for me making this thread is because i have seen lots of comments on various threads saying things along the lines of " why don't they ban knife's as well then" This is not a valid point, knife's have multiple uses, cutting meat, eating with, skinning things, carving things.
Gun's are made for one thing, to KILL, simple as that, if someone knows of another use for a gun other than ending life, can you please share it with me. So to all the posters who have said, ban knife's then, ban tools etc etc, your point is not valid, Gun's end life nothing more, no other use for it, nada .

I don't understand, are you against guns or are you against killing?

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Gun's are made for one thing, to KILL, simple as that, if someone knows of another use for a gun other than ending life, can you please share it with me.

Clay pigeon shooting.

Nice one, but are the not large rifle types, with special bullets, not the type you can fire in rapid succession? I could be wrong as i know nothing about gunsonly they are designed to take away life.

Here is the problem you and many others have. I would never totally oppose something I knew nothing about. I especially wouldnt argue how others should have their rights to this thing I clearly know nothing about. And target shooting involves all guns. I enjoy it and have weapons that only come out of the safe for that purpose. It appears you are also misinformed and under the impression that these guns they call "assault weapons" are automatic weapons and they are not. They just look extra scary.

People fear what they don't understand. So if you admit that you know little about guns, then I get that they frighten you. The first time that I shot a gun I was very nervous. I placed it in its holster ever so gently and was very mindful of it on my hip. As I learn how to use it, what it is capable of, and that it wont overpower me and cause me to shoot anyone, it and I became very good friends. The fact is that guns will not shoot unless there is some outside force against it.

I totally understand the desire to save lives, and was just as outraged by this last shooting as everyone else, but it could easily have been any other weapon that killed those kids. If an grown man walks into a school full of women and children intending to cause harm, it doesn't matter what he has in his hands, harm will be done. The people in that school were utterly defenceless. That crime was just as bad as the one commited by the gunman.

reply to post by Undeadlady


Eh, wroongo.
Shotguns are very often used to clean tanks, much like sandblasting. Then of course there are the usage you are describing such as hunting, or self defense. Not to mention you don't have to ever use your gun, sometimes the gun alone will stop a defense situation. Also, the right to own them and the fact that people do own them means they are constantly in use. They are dormant, but they deter tyranny of all sorts.

But, even if there weren't multiple uses (my friend also uses shotguns to get miseltoe out of trees to sell it around the holidays), the hunting and self defense arguments are enough.

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Gun's are made for one thing, to KILL, simple as that, if someone knows of another use for a gun other than ending life, can you please share it with me.

Clay pigeon shooting.

Nice one, but are the not large rifle types, with special bullets, not the type you can fire in rapid succession? I could be wrong as i know nothing about guns, only they are designed to take away life.

haha! no wonder you don't know what other uses guns have, you admit here you know nothing about guns. so why should anyone take you seriously here. apparently you don't know how to spell knives either. so, knives are instruments of death too.. you cut up animal parts to eat with them do you not?

you could have at least used google and made a list and learned something instead of just post some nonsense where you're right and everyone is wrong when you're coming off the top of your head and admitting you know nothing about what you're talking about

Lets ban string and sticks, the obvious components of a prehistoric weapon with no purpose other than to take life.

Ban rocks also. They can be sharpened to a point and have no use other than to be thrown or attached to a stick to make an arrow.

reply to post by PaddyInf


Also, tobacco kills more people than guns. So does alcohal. Outlaw that. Oh, yeah. we did that. That's how
They took control. Now....outlaw guns....everyone buys them...They make a profit, now turn them in at a
Reduced price, THEY resale them to other countries for profit. They make lots of money. They still have guns
But we turned them in and they made a HUGE profit. Now what????

Great. Then let's invent a gun with a compass, a toothpick, and a corkscrew built in.

That way it will have multiple uses too along with killing somebody who is threatening me.

Originally posted by sconner755
Great. Then let's invent a gun with a compass, a toothpick, and a corkscrew built in.

That way it will have multiple uses too along with killing somebody who is threatening me.

Hmmm...............That sounds awesome!!! I got a multi-tool for Christmas, if it was a gun and a multi-tool that would be fantastic. You should patent that idea right away.

reply to post by Undeadlady


Try living in Alaska, or Montana, and lets see how quick you buy a firearm! Humans are at the bottom of the foodchain in austere regions of the US. Maybe you should visit.

Originally posted by Undeadlady
The reason for me making this thread is because i have seen lots of comments on various threads saying things along the lines of " why don't they ban knife's as well then" This is not a valid point, knife's have multiple uses, cutting meat, eating with, skinning things, carving things.
Gun's are made for one thing, to KILL, simple as that, if someone knows of another use for a gun other than ending life, can you please share it with me. So to all the posters who have said, ban knife's then, ban tools etc etc, your point is not valid, Gun's end life nothing more, no other use for it, nada .

how come 99.99999999999% of legal gun owners do not use it to kill someone

Ooops, how do you answer that?