Shooting compliation and comparison - a fact gathering mission

The purpose of this thread is to get all of the data together. Many of us have speculated that all of these shootings have some strangeness related to them, and there is much speculation as to why, or if there is anything to such ideas. So, what I want to do is get all of the cases together, and list what we know, what seems wrong with the data we were given, and so forth. I want us to compare similarities, differences, possible lies, all of that, in one place. I don't want to discuss the "why" so much as the "what", except as needed to discuss some potential connection. We have some great minds in here, and I think we can sort this out better than most, if we put in the effort. Oh, if this is in the wrong place, please shift as needed. It could be so many things, "general" seemed like a safe bet, but I don't mind it there is a better location.

Alright, I will post some links to stories, and then try to list what I remember about those cases, and any oddities, similarities, and the like. PLEASE, add to the list any cases or data I have missed. That's the whole point; to get it all together, and compare notes. A chart would be really cool, if we get enough data. Anyway, the cases I can locate:

Mt. Rainer National Park Shooting

I remember a lot of discrepancies with this one. Can't recall them all offhand, but feel free to list what you remember.

Colorado theater shooting

Changing descriptions, changing numbers of shooters, etc. Very odd behavior from the shooter.

Sikh temple shooting

Unknown motive. Possible discrepancies? Seem to remember some.

Michigan roadway shootings

This one caused a lot of schools to go on lockdown.

Connecticut school shooting

Terrible, and yet again, reports (including from a teacher) about possible multiple shooters, discrepancies about the weapons.

Arizona shooting

Remember the other man, the "person of interest" that was not mentioned after the first day or so?

Man apparently shoots self inside Washington bunker

Who builds a really well-supplied bunker, and holes up in it, just to shoot themselves?

Oregon mall shooting

60 shots, jammed gun, possible blanks, only three shot? Plus, again, the shooter.

article listing SIXTEEN mass shootings this year

Well, that's a start, and there are strange things in many of these cases. In a LOT of seemingly small cases, it seems the shooters shoot themselves. I haven't listed all of those, but I can't help but think that particular circumstance seems to be more common recently.

For all that have been posting on these cases, please post all of the discrepancies and oddities you have noted, or heard about. Links, with small quotes from them, when possible. If it's firsthand info, or second-hand from friends or relatives, let us know the general source (no personal stuff).

With a little effort, I think we can get a good list together here.

Oh, missed the latest two, just today (well, Saturday...) -

California mall shut down after shots fired

Gunman at Alabama hospital

I know some have mentioned other school incidents, and I am sure there are other local cases that people have heard, that might seem off in some way.

Alright, ATS'ers - do your thing!

1st off - Colorado, Connecticut, and Oregon all had reports of 2 or 3 shooters. The reports described each shooter dressed differently.

There was never a clear motive, reflected most in the Connecticut case.

Adam Lanza, the alleged Connecticut shooter was living in CT, yet had his brothers (who lives in NJ) ID. No information has been released on how or why he had the ID, especially if they don't live in the same state and there's no evidence he was in NJ the day of.

CO, and OR shooters both yelled "I AM ____!!" 'the joker' in one case, 'the shooter' in another.

CO and CT shooters fathers are both people worth keeping an eye on.

CT, CO, AZ, and OR shooters were all considerably young - 2 from apparently wealthy families, one allegedly just received a lump sum and was moving.

OR shooter doesn't appear to have planned on dying that day considering his precautions.

CT wore a mask, even though it was a suicide mission.

CO, and AZ both literally look like their minds are gone, for example, smiles in mug shots.

CT was by far the worst job in fact gathering and keeping the story straight ever. 5 shooter descriptions, multiple arrests, multiple family massacre reports, misidentification of shooter, and apparent lie about mother working at school, the story about Adam being a parent of one of the murdered children.

CT was originally reported that Ryan attended the school, but after the shooter's ID was confirmed, they never said Adam attended the school - so it appears there was NO connection to the school.

OR, CT both used allegedly stolen weapons.

CT, CO used multiple weapons and multiple weapon types.

AZ, CO, OR shooters names are all JA (Jared, James, Jacob)

CO, CT, OR eye witness reports are very VERY suspicious. Some even sound identical.

CO, OR shooters both have this weird set of either friends or roommates that existed just prior to their incidents and then disappeared.

and more.. lol

reply to post by unphased


That's good info!

On the witness reports, do you have more details? I have heard hints, but not a lot. Betting once more people look, we will see a lot more connections, too.

The thing that got me started on all of this was the way so many seem to shoot themselves these days. Not just in mass shootings, either, but in smaller cases. it used to be, the cops would take them out. now they self destruct? Something off there!

Thanks for the data - great start!

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by unphased

 

That's good info!

On the witness reports, do you have more details? I have heard hints, but not a lot. Betting once more people look, we will see a lot more connections, too.

The thing that got me started on all of this was the way so many seem to shoot themselves these days. Not just in mass shootings, either, but in smaller cases. it used to be, the cops would take them out. now they self destruct? Something off there!

Thanks for the data - great start!

A lot of the eye witness testimony in these shootings (specifically OR and CT) came via phone, email communication, etc. I don't trust phone interviews with eye witnesses cuz they could be anybody.

Also, many ATS members report a very well rehearsed, composed, couple or pair at the CO, and OR events. They gave stories unlike anybody else who would be in that situation, as though they were never concerned for their lives, etc.

reply to post by unphased


Ah! You know, the ONE interview I have seen video for, in the Oregon case, was a young guy reporting what the alleged shooter supposedly said, and he seemed VERY composed, and yes, very rehearsed. That was on camera, but that doesn't mean he was honest. Would love to see videos of the others; guess I had better start hunting!

Maybe, along with all of the other data, we should do a comparison of witness testimonies. Even, dare I suggest, witness pictures, if we have them! Wouldn't it be something if some of the faces were the same?

After much speculation on the motives and theories of recent shootings, I would like to share with you guys something I found quite interesting....

First, please read the Wiki about psychological warfare here, if you are unfamiliar with the tactics...

en.wikipedia.org...

*Note the "Modern Psycological Warfare Operations" & "United States" sections

Next, lets just see where some of these units are based. Scroll down in the wiki link to the section where it shows where the psyop units are based out of.

en.wikipedia.org...

*Note 2 of the 41 listed are in Aurora, Co, 1 is in Withycombe, OR (basically Portland), and 1 is in Fort Totten, NY (about 70 miles from Newtown, CT)

It seems that less than 2 miles away from the Sandy Hook Elementary School is the offices of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. www.nssf.org...
Bit ironic?

reply to post by Frettin


Interesting.....! I did note something else today. Apparently, earlier this week, there was a nice ruling striking down the ban on carrying a gun in Chicago. Then, later this week, we see all these shootings? The timing is a bit convenient, isn't it?? link

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Well, I would bet there are a lot of places you could find some shooting place or another close. I know there are plenty around where we live. Not sure if I would call that ironic or not, though.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes



Firstly nice work on your OP. Normally i would never read a gun thread but you seem to be taking a serious approach. The gun debates i have heard so far have been emotional rants.

Well, that's a start, and there are strange things in many of these cases

Before diving down the rabbit holes of these rampage murders and looking for the common factors at play in each instance, are you able to elaborate what you believe are the strangeness of these cases?
I guess what i am alluding at isa person going on a ramapage is strange by definition so what are you hoping to find in this analysis of historical cases? What do you suspect? you must suspect some form of conspiracy, is this the motive for this thread?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Thanks. Trying to keep things sensible. Started this because I do feel like there is more to a lot of these cases than just the usual random violence. Some of that is a simple gut feeling. Some is the strange factors in so many cases. The fact that most seem to "kill themselves" before anyone can question them. The fact that, in the mass shooting cases, we have many reports of multiple shooters (certainly not unheard of), and then it goes to one, with no more media or police mention of the others. Weapon descriptions and numbers seem to change, there are witnesses that seem to calm and collected, and, well, rehearsed, to be real. The post right after my first one shows a lot of the factors we have been seeing.

Now, as to what I think? Well, I find it very interesting about that gun case earlier this week, removing a gun ban for Chicago. The timing of that, followed by several shootings, seems far too convenient to be coincidental. I think we have to consider the possibility that some of these cases are planned, to push for stronger gun control. Certainly, that isn't the only possibility, but there is something going on in a lot of these cases, that isn't right.

Another example, that I just found out about? In the Connecticut case, where the police tell us that school principal Dawn Hochsprung was one of the first shot, we have this early story from that day, from a local media source: link Note, please, that the article states that

Sandy Hook School Principal Dawn Hochsprung told The Bee that a masked man entered the school with a rifle and started shooting multiple shows – more than she could count – that went "on and on."

Now, how, if she was one of the first killed, did she report to that media outlet? Something is seriously off there!

I am more than willing to discuss other possibilities here. Also, any other oddities that people have noticed, about the cases I listed, or cases I might have missed. I have regularly perused the news for a long time now, and have never seen anything like this shooting contagion we seem to have of late.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes



There would be a lot of peace of mind that can come from being able to find what the common trigger is that is setting of the random massacre killings. I see it more of a lining up of the holes in a piece of cheese. Its not one hole (trigger), its a number of triggers and when they all line up it has a critical mass effect on the persons psycology.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

There would be a lot of peace of mind that can come from being able to find what the common trigger is that is setting of the random massacre killings. I see it more of a lining up of the holes in a piece of cheese. Its not one hole (trigger), its a number of triggers and when they all line up it has a critical mass effect on the persons psycology.

Well, yes, I would agree, in the case of the "average" shooting of this sort. People snap, and they do crazy things. Or, people are evil, and they do horrible things. That, we have seen for a long time.

These recent cases, though......something is OFF. i thought that, on the Colorado case, before ANY oddities were reported. Don't know why, but I felt like something wasn't as we were being told. I have a knack for doing that. I can tell things, sometimes, that aren't clearly visible. Nothing I could prove, save that there have been too many times I have been right. However, just looking at all of the data, all the "facts" we are told, a lot of people see something wrong with these cases.

How about the man in one of those links, who made himself a really well-done bunker, had it loaded with weapons, ammo, and tons of supplies, enough to hole up a really LONG time, that supposedly shot himself? Suicidal people don't make bunkers like that.

Check out all of the details mentioned above in the thread, and see if you don't notice something a little off kilter yourself. I am not one to run screaming "conspiracy!" at every little thing, but sometimes, it's too obvious that something is being hidden.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

How about the man in one of those links, who made himself a really well-done bunker, had it loaded with weapons, ammo, and tons of supplies, enough to hole up a really LONG time, that supposedly shot himself? Suicidal people don't make bunkers like that.

Actually they do. I have heard of stories now and then of Survivalist obsessives living in bunkers going crazy and killing themselves. They usually kill some innocent people first hand, then retreat back to their bunker and wack themselves.

I hear you however on your sense of intuition warning you somethings not right about the frequent rampage murders that keep popping up. I suggest just try and remain neutral until all the data is collected and you have had some calm time to digest it and understand it. These are emotional times we live in.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

How about the man in one of those links, who made himself a really well-done bunker, had it loaded with weapons, ammo, and tons of supplies, enough to hole up a really LONG time, that supposedly shot himself? Suicidal people don't make bunkers like that.

Actually they do. I have heard of stories now and then of Survivalist obsessives living in bunkers going crazy and killing themselves. They usually kill some innocent people first hand, then retreat back to their bunker and wack themselves.

I hear you however on your sense of intuition warning you somethings not right about the frequent rampage murders that keep popping up. I suggest just try and remain neutral until all the data is collected and you have had some calm time to digest it and understand it. These are emotional times we live in.

edit on 17-12-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

Well, in that case, the story seemed off. Possible, but seemed unlikely to me.

Getting all the data is what this thread is about. Was hoping for more people posting on it, so we can get ALL of the information in one place, and look at it as a group, instead of piecemeal.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Well, in that case, the story seemed off. Possible, but seemed unlikely to me.

Getting all the data is what this thread is about. Was hoping for more people posting on it, so we can get ALL of the information in one place, and look at it as a group, instead of

Your thread is good, well presented and of good intentions. I cant go into the stories to collect data they will only make me feel sad. Mabey thats why not many people posted. Im gonna go to cinema today and the ironic part is i dont mind seeing people die on movie screen because its all make believe. In real life guns and people dont mix well, although i do understand why you US citizens carry guns because your forefathers considered a potential risk of a disconnect of the general population and Government -- Tyranny sproutiing some legs --. I dont live in US so im in no position to pass any opinion on state of health of national, and if basic freedoms under the constitution are being systematically eroded. I mean this is what the crux is of the worry i believe, that government uses the shooting rampage events to justify creating legsilation that takes away peoples rights to bear arms.

Alright, regarding the business of all the false reports....does anyone have video of the police, or anyone in authority (meaning not the media or witnesses) making contradictory statements? I ask, because of some information I just heard.

I have a family member who lives in a neighborhood where, some time back, a man held his wife hostage at gunpoint. She said that she heard a LOT of stories being told, by supposed witnesses, that were flat out lies. They claimed he fired on the police, but he never fired a single shot. They claimed he killed the wife and children, and they didn't even have children (plus, didn't fire a shot...). They claimed that the entire neighborhood was evacuated, when only the surrounding homes were. So, in that case, there were people (multiple people) claiming things to the media that were flat out wrong, and the media reported them as though they were factual.

So, how much of what we have heard in this case, (and the others) was from supposed witnesses, or the media, as opposed to the authorities?

I am posting this same comment in my thread as well, since it's relevant to all of the cases.

Savage, totally hear you there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You might want to take a look at Coyotepoet's comparisons in this thread. I'm going to PM "him" to see if "he" wouldn't mind posting here as well. ( I used quotes around the gender words cuz I don't know!)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And this one happened Saturday I think. The reason I think it should be considered added to your list is because it took place, in part, at the Mayan Theater.
There has been alot of speculation that both Aurora and Sandy Hook were both in the Dark Night Rises movie and that Aurora was also in the Skyfalling trailers.

Bumping it for a visit later.

reply to post by missvicky


I did hear about that one; actually have family down there! Well, San Antonio, not that section of town. The theater name is about the only thing that stands out on that one, that I can see. The south side, where the theater is located, has long been a higher crime area. Plus, from all indications (this from my sister, who lives in SA), this was a guy going into a restaurant where his ex worked, and being chased from there into the theater. So, it doesn't appear that the theater was the target, or that he was some mass shooter type.

Still, adding it in isn't a bad idea, because comparing ALL these big news stories is the goal here! Even if some don't fit a pattern, others certainly will!

reply to post by missvicky


The link went back to my thread, but by all means, invite them over! Seen some good lists in the threads for certain incidents; just trying to assemble them all here.

reply to post by hp1229