What I have become after 10 years of being a Christian Mystic....

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm not ignoring it, Dominicus is by leading everyone to believe that these "mystical experiences" all started after he was practicing "strict Christianity" and after having been baptized by an Evangelical preacher, when in reality we all know he was practicing other things at the same time. So, he needs to drop the line about mixing "strict Christianity" with mysticism, because that is not strict Christianity. It's fake Christianity.

I'm just pointing out that the term "Christian Mystic" is really an oxymoron, no matter how many people have decided to start their own religion around it.

reply to post by Deetermined

Sorry, but a "strict Christian" as you put it, wouldn't be accessing the Holy Spirit the same ways that you did.

My time line went like this:
1. Gave Xtianity a shot for 14 months by studying the Bible w/ a theology/pastor student.
2. After 14 months of study, got baptised in Lake michigan.
3. 3 weeks after Baptism, the Holy Spirit descended on me and slayed my ego, added the gifts of the spirit, love for all, transcendence, timelessness, 3rd eye openetc etc. The went off and on for a few years. During this time, nobody, not even my bible teacher(nor any theologians, head pastors, auothors, etc) knew what was happening to me. I had to call an Eastern Orthodox monastery where they finally told me I was undergoing the divine mysteries and they introduced me to the purest form of Christianity in Eastern Orthodoxy (Philokalia, desert fathers, mystics, hermits, theosis, deification.
4. Next was the Dark Night of the Soul. I was still only studying Christian materials during this time, including E.O. The Dark night lasted roughly 3 years, and it was recommended to me for me to enter a monastery to finish the process of the divine mysteries.(which in E.O. culminates in Union w/God, theosis, deification). However I had family to take care of (various worldly obligations preventing from monastic life)
5. During this time, one of my Hermit Monk teachers introduced me to Awareness and Nondual philosophy which was what helped him enter into Union. I really didn't understand it at first, so for the last year or so of the dark night, it was on the back burner.
6. While in the final year of the Dark Night, i remembered pre-existing prior to a physical body as awareness or a unit of consciousness and being asked by 3 others to come to earth and be born.
7. Year 7 or so, I finally pick up my first nondual philosophy book which lacks division or religious separation and was purely logic based. I came across the koan about the thought of the rock not being the rock, therefore who you think you are is not who you are, which lead to 15 minutes of wrestling with this and then eventually going beyond and seeing directly that I am not the body or ego/mind, and then dropping into the heart where I merged with the Ocean of Oneness.
8. The Koan single handedly pulled me out of the Dark Night, and over the next 3 years or so I spent studying nondual philosphy, buddhist thought, socrates, neo-platonism, etc. This lead to a level of self mastery over the lusts and animalism of the body, mastery and letting go of the ego mind, eventual loosening from and coming out of the body, and lots of going in and out of the Oneness.

Number 8 still continues to go deeper to this day and I've realized it's all completely compatible with Jesus and the Early Christians and has done nothing but deepened my relationship to God and the meaning of Christ's teachings.

They would be using the Bible and praying, not "Buddhist blueprints" that you keep referring to.

Where does it say we are only to read the Bible? Did you not first have to learn how to read? Use of language, logic, reason, intellect, etc before you can even comprehend the Bible? Now imagine not being well developed in any of those precursors and trying to understand the NT. Also imagine comprehending theology, various philosophies, and cross cultural studies and then re-examining the NT.

Buddhism is justified to a certain extent because Jesus says the Kingdom of Heaven is within you and that the pure of heart shall see God. Well the Buddhist were like scientists as far as going with in and seeing in the heart and letting go of the ego mind which has its origins in the heart, thereby leaving journals and manuals on what happens when one goes within. It's not a religion, its the science of going within.

I'm not ignoring it, Dominicus is by leading everyone to believe that these "mystical experiences" all started after he was practicing "strict Christianity" and after having been baptized by an Evangelical preacher, when in reality we all know he was practicing other things at the same time.

Read the timeline above. I didn't study outside of Xtianity til year 7, and the majority of the powerful experiences happened from 14 months/3 weeks, up til year 7.

So, he needs to drop the line about mixing "strict Christianity" with mysticism, because that is not strict Christianity. It's fake Christianity.

Look up Great Schism of 1054. Real Xtianity stayed with E.O. where mysticism and experiences are fundamental to the Christian experience and a backbone to even understand the NT. Everything else that came west ended up being a feel good 1 hour sunday gathering and book reading and that's it.

term "Christian Mystic" is really an oxymoron

according to which denomination?

reply to post by dominicus



First of all thank you for your in depth reply, and for having the courage to talk about the bad things you have done in your past. It takes a lot of guts, in my book, to discuss such things openly, and especially with a complete stranger.

Originally posted by dominicus
What got me out of the dark nigh was wrestling with this Koan:

"Just like the thought of a rock, is not an actual rock; so too, who you think you are, is not who you are."

Wow that’s awesome…I went through something similar myself, but without that Koan verse, and minus the Dark night of the Soul lol

Originally posted by dominicus
I wrestled with this koan for 15 minutes realizing that the thought of a rock, is just a mental, or a type of illusion, that represents the actual rock, but is not the actual rock. After realizing this, I moved on to who I think I am and found that the same thing applies to me, as to the rock.

Yes this is true, even Jesus talks about, the difference between what is flesh and what is spirit, throughout many passages in the New Testament.

Originally posted by dominicus
...This was such great relief for me, that I completely let go of the ego/mind and of all the BS, the Dark night, all Illusions, and as Awareness, I dropped down into my heart, like a vertical drop from the head, through the neck, and into the chest and it was there that me as Awareness merged with the source of Awareness. At this point there was no me and everything was One thing. This was HOME, Union, the ABsolute Beingness, the Untrumpable truth, that includes all yet is prior to all.

I have heard some similar accounts, where people say the line “there was no me” but how can that be, surely one must be there to experience it lol

The strange things is, is that when I first received the Holy Spirit, which admittedly may be a completely different experience in itself, I experienced what is described in John 7:38, but I also felt this oneness connection to everything, which yourself, and many others talk about; but in my experience, I was still there, and still me, at the same time!

Originally posted by dominicus
Still I came out of that state, like a wave emerges from the ocean, and spent the next 2-3 years getting my hands on all the Nondual, Koan, philosophies I can get my hands on and realized that it all boils down to a few simple things; Letting go of the idea that you are the body (which opens the channels for Awareness to drop down into the heart), letting go of the idea that you are the thinker of thoughts, of all mental and worldly programming, spending time going within, Being Aware of Awareness itself, spending time with Koans, Love, the heart, and a few other things as well.

Yes I agree with most of the above, in that we are not our bodies etc but at the same time I am unsure if I agree with all of the Buddhist interpretations, although I still have much to learn in this regard.

Originally posted by dominicus
In light of these things, I saw that Jesus was using Koans as well and also dumbing it down for the average Joe and this watering down is what was past down as modern day Christianity.

I have a similar mind set, in that much of Jesus parables, metaphors and key language that he used, stemmed from Gnosticism and the early Essene religion. And that most of modern day Christianity came out about via the misunderstanding of those 2 cultures. I am also recently persuaded that the stories of Jesus visiting India in his youth, are most likely true. Although strangely enough, I still believe in certain aspects (but not all) of standard Christianity. It’s a long story lol

Continued...

reply to post by dominicus


Continued...

Originally posted by dominicus
I would Highly recommend I Am That by Nisargadatta, anything by Ramana Maharshi, The Cloud of Unknowing, and Human Buddha by Anadi. Just those 4 alone will bring you to an understanding of Self Mastery, a deeper understanding of what Jesus taught, and for me it ended all questions and the only thing left was meditation, mindfulness, and a few practices like Awareness aware of itself, yoga, letting go, going deep within. This has all lead to me popping out of the body during meditation and exploring around my neighborhood, detachment from just about all things, no fear of death, compassion, no judgment (seeing all people as Consciousness operating physical vehicles), and dipping in and out of the Ocean of Oneness (even that I've come to learn will eventually become permanent)!!!

Thanks for the recommendations, although strangely enough I have recently been looking into Buddhism and a few months back I watched a youtube video called “River of Freedom” about a woman named Gangaji, who was a student of Papaji, who in turn was a pupil of Ramana Maharshi. It was an excellent documentary about her life, but so far I’m just scratching the surface of Buddhism.

I have so many things I could say right now but I think I’ll save it until my next follow up post/reply.

I have so many questions I would like to ask you too regarding your thoughts on Buddhism and your receiving of the Holy Spirit which you mentioned in another post …but so as not to bombard you with too many, Ill start with this one…

When you are outside of your body, as you described above, are you still able to think? lol

The reason I ask, is because much of the Buddhist philosophy, that I have seen so far, says that the Mind is separate from the Awareness. Maybe I have misunderstood their meaning and maybe they simply mean the ego/ personality of the mind…but my gut feeling so far, is that the Soul/Spirit has it’s own mind.


- JC

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm just pointing out that the term "Christian Mystic" is really an oxymoron, no matter how many people have decided to start their own religion around it.

Hmm. Considering Dominicus has taken a lot of Christian philosophies into his practices, and that doesn't make him part Christian, then how can you call those Christian philosophies? This implies that those practices aren't Christian, and that Christianity simply adopted them.

reply to post by dominicus

I think holy spirit is something that helps spiritual men to control their egos, it seems you have experienced that, what is your description about Holy spirit !?

For years my heart was in search of the Grail
What was inside me, it searched for, on the trail

That pearl that transcends time and place
Sought of divers whom oceans sail

My quest to the Magi my path trace
One glance solved the riddles that I Braille

Found him wine in hand and happy face
In the mirror of his cup would watch a hundred detail

I asked, "when did God give you this Holy Grail?"
Said, "on the day He hammered the world’s first nail!"

Even the unbeliever had the support of God
Though he could not see, God’s name would always hail.

All the tricks of the mind would make God seem like fraud
Yet the Golden Calf beside Moses’ rod would just pale.

And the one put on the cross by his race
His crime, secrets of God would unveil

Anyone who is touched by God’s grace
Can do what Christ did, without fail.

And what of this curly lock that’s my jail
Said this is for Hafiz to tell his tale.
--Hafez

reply to post by Joecroft

I have heard some similar accounts, where people say the line “there was no me” but how can that be, surely one must be there to experience it lol

It's hard to explain. During the experience, there is no me to experience it, Oneness just is, then in retrospect the mind formulates and communicates what happened.

Yes I agree with most of the above, in that we are not our bodies etc but at the same time I am unsure if I agree with all of the Buddhist interpretations, although I still have much to learn in this regard.

Well they have vast branches and philosophies of thought.that you can literally spend decades going through it all. But it can be simplified to what Buddha taught. That what you think/take yourself & reality to be, is all illusion & not reality, but that by going within w wisdom, logic, reason, intuition, and understanding, you unravel the illusion and come face to face with the Supreme state that underlies everything as a direct knowingness, experience, etc. The ways there are many.

I have a similar mind set, in that much of Jesus parables, metaphors and key language that he used, stemmed from Gnosticism and the early Essene religion. And that most of modern day Christianity came out about via the misunderstanding of those 2 cultures.

I hear you. I believe in a balance between Orthodoxy, gnostics/essenes, logic, reason, what the Spirit reveals, etc. Although I will say I read gospel of Thomas a long time ago and it was very cryptic. But know with understanding and mystical experience gained through logic, koans, nonduality, Thomas makes complete sense and I lean toward it being genuine teachings of Jesus, considering also that its the oldest of the NT books in existence so far.

I am also recently persuaded that the stories of Jesus visiting India in his youth, are most likely true. Although strangely enough, I still believe in certain aspects (but not all) of standard Christianity. It’s a long story lol

I hear you. It may be a possibility but at this point who knows. I'll give you a little hint ...look up the history and origins of foot washing in reverence & respect and you'll find alot more

about a woman named Gangaji, who was a student of Papaji, who in turn was a pupil of Ramana Maharshi. It was an excellent documentary about her life, but so far I’m just scratching the surface of Buddhism.

Yeah alot of that is legit. I know gangaji & papji's stuff. It's mostly all considered Nonduality (Advaita). That's what gave all the understanding of not being the ego/mind, body identification, and ways to explore within, inner channels , etc.

There is one trap to watch out for. Some of the Nondual folks out there say that "There's nothing you can do, as you already are that." This can become a trap cause you realize there is nothing you can do. Still it's mostly just a koan to show you that you are not the mind/ego/doer.

I have so many questions I would like to ask you too regarding your thoughts on Buddhism and your receiving of the Holy Spirit which you mentioned in another post …but so as not to bombard you with too many, Ill start with this one… When you are outside of your body, as you described above, are you still able to think? lol

Outside of the body I am merely aware. It's still rather new and happens many times while in meditation, or washing dishes, or dogs for a walk ...so there is still much more understanding to gleam in the process. However I will say that the same "Me" that exists the body and floats around, is the exact same me that I remember to have pre-existed prior to being born here. In that pre-existant state, I was able to think and communicate via perspective, to 3 other units of consciousness in regards to coming here to earth.

SO when I'm out now, there is still thinking, and choices, and even seeing other units of consciousness or subtle beings, but I have not spoke to any of them and the durations "out" are rather short for now. ALso this is considered a distraction for reaching permanent Union/Enlightenment, so I don't really grasp to this phenomenon.

The reason I ask, is because much of the Buddhist philosophy, that I have seen so far, says that the Mind is separate from the Awareness. Maybe I have misunderstood their meaning and maybe they simply mean the ego/ personality of the mind…but my gut feeling so far, is that the Soul/Spirit has it’s own mind.

Yes Awareness is separate from the ego/mind. There is a shift that occurs where you literally see that the thinker of thoughts, the ego mind is not you. When this happens, it loses its power of creating illusions and a person being egotistical. Awareness being aware of it, will eventually reveal the source of the mind in the heart and snuff it out. Neti Neti is a way there

reply to post by dominicus

This can become a trap cause you realize there is nothing you can do. Still it's mostly just a koan to show you that you are not the mind/ego/doer.

Isn't that the point, though? Just do. Experience. Feel. Find what gives you joy, and do it. Learn what it is to live.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you care to elaborate?

reply to post by Deetermined


Absolutely. See, everything about the Christian religion is declared to be entirely Christian, correct? So if someone takes some of those Christian practices and uses them, and takes more from another religion and employs those practices as well, does that not make them part Christian? Regardless of their beliefs concerning Jesus, those practices that are centered around Jesus are still Christian, right? Because they were invented and spread by Jesus through his spiritual connections, or so Christians claim.

But if you say that Christian practices do not make him Christian, that means more is necessary, right? Those practices aren't enough. He has to believe strictly in the Christian doctrine, practice strictly the Christian practice. Since the Christian practices that Dominicus employs clearly aren't enough to label him part Christian, then they must not be Christian enough. But how can it not be Christian enough? Unless those practices aren't Christian at all.

From where I sit, you can believe in Jesus and follow nothing of what he teaches and still be a Christian. But if you follow what he teaches and don't believe in him specifically, you're not a Christian. This says that the teachings themselves are not Christian, or do not qualify someone as Christian. Or so your reaction tells me.

So what's the point of being Christian if the teachings aren't necessary? You can believe in his story and not emulate it? That's worthless.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

From where I sit, you can believe in Jesus and follow nothing of what he teaches and still be a Christian.

It certainly appears that way from some people here on ATS that are calling themselves "Christians", but I'm not buying into it.

But if you follow what he teaches and don't believe in him specifically, you're not a Christian.

To me, being a Christian means having a personal relationship with God/Jesus and knowing what he teaches from the Bible to coincide with that. Jesus did stress the importance of the Bible and following scripture, although I don't think Dominicus believes that.

This says that the teachings themselves are not Christian, or do not qualify someone as Christian. Or so your reaction tells me.

To me, as a Christian, mysticism is not a Christian practice.

So what's the point of being Christian if the teachings aren't necessary? You can believe in his story and not emulate it? That's worthless.

Try telling that to Dominicus. Here's what the Eastern Orthodox Church follows (in the so called name of Christianity):

The Biblical text used by the Orthodox includes the Greek Septuagint and the New Testament. It includes the seven Deuterocanonical Books which are generally rejected by Protestants and a small number of other books that are in neither Western canon.

Orthodox Christians use the term "Anagignoskomena" (a Greek word that means "readable", "worthy of reading") for the ten books that they accept but that are not in the Protestant 39-book Old Testament canon. They regard them as venerable, but on a lesser level than the 39 books of the Hebrew canon. They do, however, use some of them liturgically.

Orthodox Christians believe Scripture was revealed by the Holy Spirit to its inspired human authors. The Scriptures are not, however, the source of the traditions associated with the Church but rather the opposite; the biblical text came out of that tradition. It is also not the only important book of the Church. There are literally hundreds of early patristic writings that form part of Church tradition.

en.wikipedia.org...

Forgive me for saying this, but I think it's a mix match religion.

Honestly, I would be surprised if they spent much time studying the Bible at all and spent more time practicing their own form of mysticism.

reply to post by Deetermined

To me, as a Christian, mysticism is not a Christian practice.

mys·ti·cal (mst-kl)
adj.
1. Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.
2. Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God: a mystical religion.

Ok let's see here. Did Jesus have direct access and communion to God and the Holy Spirit? Of course nobody would deny that. Jesus himself was operating in Spiritual and Mystical realities that are not like regular consciousness that we are all used to. How many of us can see we and the Father are one as a direct experience?

Not many. And yet there were saints, mystics, monks , and hermits in E.O. and in Catholicism who did experience Union w/ God.

What do you think happened when the disciples received the Holy Spirit? All of a sudden they are performing miracles, experiencing the "mind of Christ" and mystical realities. Paul talks about someone he knew coming out of the physical body.

Listen Determinded,
I was just a regular joe checking out Christianity and was taught be the evangelical denomination that only they are right (funny cause all denominations say that, probably yours too) and that there are no mystical experiences. That you just remain as usual and go to church on sundays and study your bible. I got baptised and when the Spirit descended on me, I never in a million years thought something like that would happen to me or that it was even possible. My roommates even felt the Spirit move through the apartment and it convinced many of them that the Christian path is legit for real. The Spirit thrust me in mystical and spiritual realities, the mind of christ, empathy, transcendence.

WHen I asked the leaders, theologians, and Phd's within the church about all this, they had no idea. Imagine that!!! The blind leading the blind. I came to find out that the Church, around Roman times, became corrupt by men who did not have the Holy Spirit and they were leading and teaching the Church without the Spirit!!! Many would call that Apostasy!!!

Try telling that to Dominicus. Here's what the Eastern Orthodox Church follows (in the so called name of Christianity):

The Biblical text used by the Orthodox includes the Greek Septuagint and the New Testament.

Have you read and do you have an understanding of the Greek Septuagint? Or is there any assumption and jumping to conclusion on your part because your specific denomination tells you so?

It includes the seven Deuterocanonical Books which are generally rejected by Protestants and a small number of other books that are in neither Western canon. Orthodox Christians use the term "Anagignoskomena" (a Greek word that means "readable", "worthy of reading") for the ten books that they accept but that are not in the Protestant 39-book Old Testament canon. They regard them as venerable, but on a lesser level than the 39 books of the Hebrew canon. They do, however, use some of them liturgically.

Have you read and gained and understanding of the Deuterocanonical Books? Did you see that E.O. holds them as "venerable, but on a lesser level than the 39 books of the Hebrew canon."

I would also say that I hold a general understanding of psychology and philosophy as "venerable" and applicable to the faith. In fact, without a deep understanding of those two, is what causes the priest/child molestations in the catholic church, and the daughters of preachers in the Bible belt to be some of the most promiscuous women I've ever met (a psychological understanding of sexual repression and it's consequences is necessary)

Orthodox Christians believe Scripture was revealed by the Holy Spirit to its inspired human authors.

What's wrong with that? We clearly see in the Bible, Jesus, and the Disciples receiving the Holy Spirit, prior to going off to teach.

The Scriptures are not, however, the source of the traditions associated with the Church but rather the opposite; the biblical text came out of that tradition.

This is true. Prior to any NT traditions such as communion with bread and wine, the tradition was first started by the actual event in the last super. They're saying that the acts of the characters in the Bible created the traditions which then lead to the scriptures being written.

reply to post by Deetermined


Continued:

It is also not the only important book of the Church. There are literally hundreds of early patristic writings that form part of Church tradition.

Of course it's not the only important book. If you read about the early Christians after Jesus called the Desert Fathers, who, inspired by Jesus' 40 days in the Desert, would also go into the Desert to become close to God, become victorious over temptation, ego, lust, and eventually reach Union w/ God and the Holy Spirit.

These desert fathers left us volumes of writings of what happens when One goes within, the tricks and traps of the ego, of the devil, the way to reach Union, Christhood, salvation, etc. These writings of the Desert Fathers are also inspired by the Holy Spirit and considered Holy Writings and I hold them dear to my heart.

All the mention of Protestant's not agreeing means nothing to me. I'm not protestant and God doesn't look at which Christian Denomination you are, but looks at the heart ....the heart which is prior to the ego and not even active in most, because the Christianity in the west fails to discuss the deeper things in the heart.

If you want to share your denomination, I can easily break down all sorts of historical and logical faults with and show you that the West has taken Christianity and turned it into a watered down power trip to get people's money, to control, to gain power from, and to imprison one in separatist paradigms and Illusions.

1 John 2:27: But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

This happened to me. The Spirit revealed to me the Spiritual and Mystical realities and ultimately being a Christian is between you personally and God, Jesus, Holy Spirit ...them coming into your life and revealing those realities to you.

Going to Church on sunday's is one small fragment of it. There is also going within in meditation, austerity, prayer, letting go, intent, Love, ego death ("take up your cross come follow me" & "I die to the self daily"), wisdom, understanding, grace, and genuineness, amongst many other aspects.

So re-evaluate your own Church and find out if your pastor's, priest, reverend, leaders have the holy spirit and die to the self daily, and all the other deep stuff. Chances are your unbalanced and lack understanding, continuing to fall to old ways

reply to post by dominicus


Here's what I know from what you've said in this thread and another.

You weren't reading the Bible when you had your mystical experience.

You said (in another thread) approximately, that a spirit came over you that scared the living daylights out of you and you thought you were going to die. This is not how the Holy Spirit works.

It's one thing to have spiritual dreams and visions given to people by the Holy Spirit, but it's different when you have people seeking out the spirit world in some kind of mystic ritual not knowing exactly who they are going to encounter.

Deuteronomy 18:10-11

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Ezekiel 13:6

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

Acts 16:14-18

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

reply to post by dominicus


Dominicus, don't get me wrong, I don't question your heart at all.

I just think you're setting yourself up to be deceived by practicing any kind of divination.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by dominicus

 

Dominicus, don't get me wrong, I don't question your heart at all.

I just think you're setting yourself up to be deceived by practicing any kind of divination.

Honestly, at this point it doesn't matter unless you have some weight holding credentials such as phd, pastor, published author, etc.

I say this because all of the experiences I have discussed thus far, have been verified to me as being legitimate by various Abbott's and monks that are in monasteries working daily in their relationship with God and themselves going through all the same mystical experiences as I.

So we have to ask ouselves here, do I go by westernized Christian dogmatic fundamentalist denominations, which do no acknowledgment, nor do they hold monasteries for intense spiritual work and mystical experiences?

Or do I go by a denomination which historically precedes all the westernized ones, and itself has a 2000 year history of monasteries where individuals undergo all the same experiences I have, have books, manuals, guides, and teachers who themselves have gone through these things and now all the traps?

The choice as rather simple for me and I implore you reconsider your own denomination which may very well produce fruitlessly individuals who don't know the deeper things of God.

reply to post by dominicus


I just have one last question.

In your eyes, what was Jesus' mission here on earth, in it's entirety?

I'm going to leave everyone with some final thoughts.

In my opinion, it's irresponsible to go chasing after spirits instead of letting the Holy Spirit come to you. We all know that even Satan and his minions (demons) can appear as angels of light. If you're studying something that says that you are not an individual, but one through absorption, it goes against loving God with your heart, soul and mind if you don't even believe that you own your own mind.

The problem is that we're living in a day and age where everyone wants to experience God in their own way, in their own time, and on their own terms instead of through God's way, God's timing, and on God's terms.

Satan is a copycat. He would love nothing more than to erase Jesus Christ from the equation and have everyone think that they have direct union with God, because it goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus is the door.

God doesn't become "all in all" until the new heaven/New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. The Holy Spirit is with us until that time. The Holy Spirit is the "Comforter" (not an ego destroyer in the way that you've described it) that Jesus talked about until after the time when Jesus puts "all of his enemies under his feet" and he reigns from the new heaven. So, when Jesus said that he would be with us, it was through the Holy Spirit, but the Bible makes it very clear that the Holy Spirit doesn't reside in all.

2 Corinthians 11:14

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

John 10:1

1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

If you want something to contemplate, ask yourself how the Anti-Christ is going to come in peace and fool everyone before his true colors reveal themselves. The Bible says he'll come in peace and perform many wonders and have many deceived. Do you think it's not possible that he's already trying to deceive everyone and is very cunning in doing so?

1 Corinthians 15:21-28

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

reply to post by dominicus

Originally posted by dominicus
I hear you. I believe in a balance between Orthodoxy, gnostics/essenes, logic, reason, what the Spirit reveals, etc.

Well said…

I believe the same, because it is the Spirit, which reveals Knowledge, Wisdom and Understanding….

Originally posted by dominicus
Although I will say I read gospel of Thomas a long time ago and it was very cryptic. But know with understanding and mystical experience gained through logic, koans, nonduality, Thomas makes complete sense and I lean toward it being genuine teachings of Jesus, considering also that its the oldest of the NT books in existence so far.

Having read your bullet pointed journey above, I would like to give you a snippet of my own journey so far, so you can get a better Idea of where I’m coming from…

Like yourself I wasn’t brought up a Christian by my family and for most of my life, I would describe myself as being an Agnostic/Atheist. When I was 21 years old, I had a very strange experience. I awoke in the middle of the might at about 3am and I could hear a voice speaking the Lords prayer. The voice was powerful yet gentle at the same time, which I know sounds like a contradiction but that’s the best way I can describe it. Later I just shrugged it off as a dream, but deep down, I knew it was real…

Many years later, like yourself, I began to investigate into Christianity and started to attend a born again Christian church. I asked many questions, attended functions, meetings etc but I slowly got to point where I just couldn’t believe in God, by faith alone, so I decided to leave the church.

For some reason I just couldn’t let it go, so I started to study the Bible, research and debate Christianity online etc, to try and reach some kind of truth. At this time I was reading and absorbing myself in a lot of Jesus words from the bible. Then one night I heard the exact same voice again, except this time the voice asked me a question, and the question was “What is man?” and I also felt an inner voice asking me “what are you?”.

Over a period of time of about 6 to 7 months I began to realize inwardly, that I was a part of the living God, spiritually speaking (It was only about a year later that I discovered that a similar question, was written in the “Gospel of Thomas”!)

As I began to work my way through reading Jesus words, I slowly began to believe that God was speaking through Jesus (and I still do today).

Somewhere around that time I experience a tingling sensation in the center of my forehead, where my third eye is located. Although at that time I didn’t know anything about the 3rd eye, still don’t know much about it, except the basics. It only happened 3 times, once when I was outside, another when I was at home reading a book. The other time I woke up in the middle of the night, and the sensation in my forehead, was so intense, that I couldn’t stop laughing out loud. I even went to the doctor lol but I was told there was nothing wrong with me…

During my research into just about every Christian denomination out there, I began to believe in Jesus, but not in a completely standard orthodox Christian way. Then one night while I was reading John 14 I received the Holy Spirit and literally experience what is described in John 7:38.

Anyway, recently through watching some of the Buddhist videos, I have learned that there core teaching, is that question of “What Am I”, or “What are you?” Which is same question that God asked me. This is why I have become more drawn to it recently.

I will still never forget the day when I first read that line in the Gospel of Thomas…..Having already answered it, prier to discovering it…

“When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Sorry for rambling on…just had to get it out there lol

- JC

reply to post by Deetermined

In my opinion, it's irresponsible to go chasing after spirits instead of letting the Holy Spirit come to you.

Which is exactly what happened to me.

We all know that even Satan and his minions (demons) can appear as angels of light. If you're studying something that says that you are not an individual, but one through absorption, it goes against loving God with your heart, soul and mind if you don't even believe that you own your own mind.

Did you read my timeline? The one where it shows that at year 7 is when I began to study additional philosophies. Is a logical koan considered of Satan and are you one of those Christians which considers pretty much everything that's not in the Bible of Satan?

The problem is that we're living in a day and age where everyone wants to experience God in their own way, in their own time, and on their own terms instead of through God's way, God's timing, and on God's terms.

Even if God presents himself through his own way, timing, and terms..... it takes 2 to tango. On top of this, are you limiting an infinite God to ways, timings, and terms? I know a Christian who experiences glimpses of God through the epiphanies he gets by studying the size of the universe and the inherent energy released in the big bang. Who are we to limit God on how he makes himself accessible to us?

Satan is a copycat. He would love nothing more than to erase Jesus Christ from the equation and have everyone think that they have direct union with God, because it goes against what Jesus taught. Jesus is the door.

Is there only Christianity in the world? What spiritual paths have existed prior to Jesus showing up? Did you ever consider that when Jesus said that the only way through God is through him, was specifically directed at the Jews he was teaching, who were unsuccessfully trying to follow 613 archaic rules, none of which was resulting in spiritually awakened individuals? Or consider that the Beatitudes Christ taught are universally applied?

For example, blessed is the pure of heart, for he shall see God. He didn't say, blessed is the pure of heart (who is a Christian, and not any other religion, and strictly follows me, going to church on Sundays, and considers everything not of the bible to be satan) for he shall see God.

Its all about perspective and context. If you study philosophy and meditation around the word prior to Jesus, you will find many that discuss the science of entering into and purifying the heart for the purpose of seeing the One.

God doesn't become "all in all" until the new heaven/New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. The Holy Spirit is with us until that time. The Holy Spirit is the "Comforter" (not an ego destroyer in the way that you've described it) that Jesus talked about until after the time when Jesus puts "all of his enemies under his feet" and he reigns from the new heaven. So, when Jesus said that he would be with us, it was through the Holy Spirit, but the Bible makes it very clear that the Holy Spirit doesn't reside in all.

Again you are putting all sorts of make believe limits on God, Jesus, and the Spirit. Google "Holy Spirit ego death" and you'll find massive amounts of info on the subject. In early Christianity, and to this day still in Eastern Orthodoxy, we still have ego death by the Spirit as one the biggest experiences and goals one can go through and one of the main tenements of the Christian life; death of the old self, replaced by Christ in me.

You've gained a very one sided westernized dogmatic fundy view of what Jesus was all about. When he was here, the churches/temples and their leaders wanted to destroy him for his teachings. Those same vipers have taken over most of today's Churches and they also condemn anyone who exp eriences the same things Jesus did.

Its such hypocrisy. Be like Jesus, but no one can be like Jesus.!!!! Those who do end up experiencing these things are condemned and labeled of Satan. How convenient!!!

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Thankfully, i have not experienced a deceiving angel of light, but a Holy Spirit who abided in me the gifts of the Spirit, ego deaths, transcendence, Love of all without judgement, spontaneous selfless acts, upon many others all justifiable by various early denominations and E.O.

The Bible says he'll come in peace and perform many wonders and have many deceived. Do you think it's not possible that he's already trying to deceive everyone and is very cunning in doing so?

The Bible mentions plural antichrists. Sure there may come one main one, but there are various.