A Post Sandy Hook America

I have been having long discussions with my peers and many in my community about the recent shootings. Not just what happened in Connecticut, but the shooting in an Aurora, Colorado movie screening of Batman, and the shooting that took place in a mall in Oregon. These shootings all have one thing in common: The reactionary condemnation of inanimate objects, calls for government action, blame on political parties, and a complete lack of perspective.

We have a relatively peaceful society. Despite what many of my fellow ATSers may believe about America and her citizens, when something like these tragedies occurs we are shocked, and rightly so, because the vast majority of us are decent people who cannot fathom the thought process that brings people to commit such heinous crimes. We cannot rationalize what is irrational. One cannot make sense of the senseless. Often we resort to demonizing what we feel is the culprit for what has transpired, even if the facts are not known

All too often we ignore what works for what sounds good. The intentions are good, and everyone is looking for a method to prevent tragedy from striking again. The fact is, lunatics, like the shooters in these stories, pick and choose their place to strike for various reasons. They are poorly protected, they offer a confined area where victims can be easily picked off, and often suffer from documented mental health issues that authorities are powerless to track.

Those of you that know me know that I do not support gun control, gun bans of any type, licensing, or registration. But I do support reforming how background checks are conducted. Right now only FFLs are allowed access to the NICS system. That means private sellers can't run BGCs on private buyers. Mental health records are also protected by law, so even if you have been adjudicated mentally ill, an already disqualifying status for buying guns, the NICS system will not pick it up. Furthermore we do not arrest people for attempting to buy guns if they are a felon as there is no reporting required by sellers to reports such attempts and there is no method to report the mentally disqualified either. Before we start talking about banning stuff, which doesn't work, lets look at doing the hard work of addressing some of the problems inherent to the system already in place.

Screaming BAN IT! Does not solve the issue here. As a country we do not take mental health seriously. We do nothing to prevent these tragedies and instead target issues that aren't even in the periphery. With economic hard times ahead, and a lack of enforcement on things that even staunch gun rights supporters like myself agree with, it is no surprise that whack jobs like the ones discussed here are able to do so much harm to others. There are reforms we can take to make a dent in the violence WITHOUT violating our right to arms.

Banning high cap magazines, "assault" rifles, and pistol grips will NOT help here at all. How do I know? Because Connecticut already bans these things and it still happened. Chicago had a gun ban in place for decades and it has had the worst armed gang violence in the nation. Banning things does not solve underlying problems. We need to change the way we treat mental health in this country. We need to strengthen the system of background checks that have left gaping holes open for those who wish to do harm to have access to weapons. We have no enforcement against criminals and those adjudicated mentally ill attempting to buy firearms.

We have to stop banning good people from arming themselves. Creating entire areas where people are totally defenseless does no good either. Because a criminal or a nutjob is going to seek these places out to do their killing, it is imperative that we STOP creating free fire zones for these types.

It wasn't that long ago that America had zero armed violence in schools. What changed? How did we get here? There is something deep seeded in our psyche, as a society, that has changed the dynamic. Our culture has changed and with it the manifestations of our criminal and mentally unstable citizens have changed. Something has to be done. But the notion that one can control people by controlling things has got to stop. It's been tried it doesn't work.

Likewise creating a TSA for schools is also not the way to go. Because we are already on the verge of turning schools into prisons. The walls we build to keep the bad people out will one day keep good people in. We must resist the attempts to destroy liberty for a false sense of security. We must stave off the same mentality that brought the post-9/11 America to fruition, in order to prevent a post Sandy Hook America from materializing.

This Christmas there are going to be parents out there without their kids. There are toys under those Christmas trees wrapped, that will never be opened. And it doesn't make sense. Because you can't make sense of the senseless.

Bravo, my friend

The common thread of all of these shootings is fear

The fear of those no where near the situations after they hear about them. Before the truth can be pieced together people become impatient and desire an answer for the crime. The shooter is dead and there can be no justice. Some may feel rage but with no punishment possible to the shooter, they turn their anger to the methods that the shooter used

I think the outcrys are reactionary for the feelings of there being no justice for the victims.

It will pass.

reply to post by Mrgone


It may, it may not.

I do not want to see a society that creates it walls of its own prison in response to tragedy. America has seen enough of reactionary policy.

The answer to our problems isn't the gutting of the Constitution. Be it from terrorism, or nut cases with guns.

I too hope it will pass. But fear is very powerful and easily used.

all use trying to convince americans to give up guns are just as well trying to tell a 2 year old that tellytubbys aren,t real,never going to grasp why?


heard the argument well criminals have guns so i should have one to protect myself....madness......don,t u grasp the fact that cause guns are so easily available to the so called pillars of society that it means criminals can easily get access to them too ?cause all they have to do is break in to steal them?


i stay in scotland and in a town where we have our criminals who are out their face on drugs and breaking in to steal stuff to fund that habbit but diffrence is they don,t break in with a gun or being able to steal a gun cause guns are so hard to come by......why? cause we have strong gun control.


worst thing to say is all them kids have just been killed but all we get is why shoudn,t i have a gun? seriously i,m starting to think you,s live in cloud coo coo land if you even ask that.

reply to post by sparky31


Because punishing people that didn't do nothing wrong, because of the actions of a nutcase is a perfectly rational solution......

You don't care, because you have no need of a gun. Many of us have the need. How do you suggest I deal with coyotes giant going after my livestock, if not my scary AR15? You want me to beat them with a stick and hope they run away? What do you propose I do when an aggressive bear comes, if I do not have a gun? You may not see the need for them, but I have plenty. Plus my guns put 3/4 of my meat on the table.

reply to post by sparky31


Because as a rational person I don't see inanimate objects as the problem America faces with regard to these tragedies. There are countries where ownership of firearms of all types are encouraged by government. They don't have the problems we do and cannot be attributed to gun control.

The problem is so much deeper than guns, gun laws, or a perceived lack thereof. Why can't YOU see that? I've heard ridiculous suggestions, everything from banning guns to turning schools into maximum security prisons. What will it take for people to realize that underlying problems in society that give rise to tragedies like this cannot be solved with cursory measures that do little to protect the law abiding, and everything to curb our liberties?

reply to post by TKDRL


punish?why do u need a gun in first place? i don,t cause i know 90% of criminals over here don,t have one cause they can,t get one......no point arguing with an american cause something in the air has warped brains to even say i need my gun after just seeing so many kids being killed.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Mrgone

 

It may, it may not.

I do not want to see a society that creates it walls of its own prison in response to tragedy. America has seen enough of reactionary policy.

The answer to our problems isn't the gutting of the Constitution. Be it from terrorism, or nut cases with guns.

I too hope it will pass. But fear is very powerful and easily used.

a nut case with guns is just as much a terrorist and it seems your country is full of them! Maybe your government should spend a little less time hunting outside of the borders, but focusing more on the inside and your own people. Good luck with solving this issue.

reply to post by citizenoftheworld


America isn't full of nut cases.

It seems like this stereotype is perpetuated by the media. People like that are an aberration of society and are not common. If it were common then people wouldn't be shocked and horrified by it.

reply to post by sparky31


Erm, maybe you read my comment before I gave a few legit reasons that I need guns up here in the woods? Protection from very dangerous animals, and putting food on the table. I am not worried about criminals, we have had 0 violent crimes here, despite more guns than people, but I still have plenty to use should that need arise.

I may live in Canada now, but it was the same situation when I lived in the sticks in NY.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by sparky31

 

Erm, maybe you read my comment before I gave a few legit reasons that I need guns up here in the woods? Protection from very dangerous animals, and putting food on the table. I am not worried about criminals, we have had 0 violent crimes here, despite more guns than people, but I still have plenty to use should that need arise.

I may live in Canada now, but it was the same situation when I lived in the sticks in NY.

edit on Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:44:41 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

i apologize but i,m not getting on at you who have livestock to protect just like our farmers over here who all probably own shotguns but go under strict checks just to have one never mind an arsenal.....my point is why should every1 be able to go out and buy assault rifles and handguns for having at home?

reply to post by sparky31


Because the right to self defense of ones property, and person is enshrined in our Constitution. Not just as a method of protecting oneself and property mind you, but because of governments' tendency to become despotic over time.


It is our right. Just as a cat has claws and teeth. We have guns and knives.

Self defense is a natural right. If you don't believe that guns should be part of your defense then don't own them. But don't tell others what they can and cannot protect themselves with.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by sparky31

 

Because the right to self defense of ones property, and person is enshrined in our Constitution. Not just as a method of protecting oneself and property mind you, but because of governments' tendency to become despotic over time.


It is our right. Just as a cat has claws and teeth. We have guns and knives.

Self defense is a natural right. If you don't believe that guns should be part of your defense then don't own them. But don't tell others what they can and cannot protect themselves with.

well even what happened yesterday aint going to convince you,s......all i hope is its not something a lot worse that mite wake america up to the fact that the right to bear arms is your posion,maybe it,ll take another couple of hundred kids to die before it but i really hope not....peace

reply to post by sparky31


There are 100 million gun owners in America.

330 million people.

300 million guns or more.

1 guy goes on a shooting spree and somehow all of us are at fault for exercising our rights?

Interesting perspective.

reply to post by projectvxn


projectvxn need I remind you that you are arguing with someone who willing lives under a monarch system of government. He obviously doesn't give a crap about his own freedom why would he care about ours?

Originally posted by projectvxn



This Christmas there are going to be parents out there without their kids. There are toys under those Christmas trees wrapped, that will never be opened. And it doesn't make sense. Because you can't make sense of the senseless.

edit on 15-12-2012 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

So true. I thought about this today. I watched my kids open up their presents, and thought of those Parents not getting a chance to do the same thing. I had tears in my eyes.

I honestly don't have an answer, but I do know exchanging any freedoms, for our children's sake, is wrong.

Thanks for the thread. It made me think deeply.