Having some respect.

So last night very late, I saw on the news the shooting that took place in America. I was shocked, I was sad, and I was angry. My heart went out to those innocent kids, to everyone that was affected by this tragedy. The families and friends, and the American people as a whole.

Then I thought to myself, tomorrow morning when I go on ATS to browse topics, I will see hordes of threads regarding this tragedy. I was not dissapointed. I knew there would be lots of threads regarding a possible "conspiracy" around it, mind control, and all types of other theories. People calling for gun bans, gun laws, etc etc.

This saddenend me even more. This tragic event, has spiraled into nothing more than a topic for everyone to rip apart. Yes, find the reason for it, and stopping it from happening again, is important. However, coming up with lots of crack pot theories, and argueing and fighting about it is in my opinion disrespectful.

This was a very sad and tragic event. Seeing Obama cried during his delivery of this event, the CNN reporters crying, broke my heart. Seeing this story being made into nothing more than a source for ridiculous theories and nitpicking, broke my heart even further.

I know that this post and my opinion might not change anything. I also understand that this is how ATS works, yet, all I ask is to have some respect regarding this matter. Do not forget the real tragedy here. We can discuss the reasons for this, why it happenned, but we will never really get an answer.

My thoughts and prayers are with those innocent kids. I do not want to see the tragedy turned into a thing where everyone fights about their possible theory, and thus forgetting the death and pain, the lives that was destroyed in this tragedy.

Personally, I am not taking part in any of the threads discussing this. Only created this one, to share my thoughts, and maybe to instill some sense of love and comfort to those that feel like I do. Last thing I want to do is to have arguments regarding this tragedy.

Respect, is all I ask.

VVV

People love drama.
If life gets too easy, and there isn't enough of it in everyday life
(nobody starving to death in front of your door)
then stuff life this becomes needed.
Besides filling all kinds of needs for the public,
to stir their emotions and enable them to feel again
it allows people who would have been nobody become notoriously famous within hours!
Everytime this happens, there is some guy watching and saying, hey....I'd like to become immortal too...

Originally posted by Bluesma
People love drama.
If life gets too easy, and there isn't enough of it in everyday life
(nobody starving to death in front of your door)
then stuff life this becomes needed.
Besides filling all kinds of needs for the public,
to stir their emotions and enable them to feel again
it allows people who would have been nobody become notoriously famous within hours!
Everytime this happens, there is some guy watching and saying, hey....I'd like to become immortal too...

Yeah, I see your point mate.

However, I do not think that stuff like this is needed. Actually, no, it is not needed.

Like you say though, seems like this is what we as humans has become. Seems people can't go a day without drama.

vvv

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Look at our history- people need bloodshed to observe. If a society becomes very civilized, it will create spectacles like the romans did, to fill that void.
As much as we search to find calm and peace, stable moods and unstirred waters of the mind, our bodies NEED to experience the pump of hormones from time to time; because that is what gives intensity and meaning to life.
Without death, life has no defining element.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Dear VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep,

I gave you a star and a flag, not to reward you; but, so that others would notice your thread. I in am complete agreement with you. I have known six people killed in workplace violence. I also have a relative whose son killed someone for pennies. When these things happen, there are no winners. I have watched a mother's anguish over what her son did, I have watched her pain and I have seen how it effected all those that thought they knew the young man.

My prayers and thoughts to go out to all the victims including the family and friends of the shooter who will question themselves for the rest of their lives as to whether or not they could have stopped this and the fact is, they could not have stopped this. As for the family and friends of the children and adults who were killed, the best we can do is be supportive of their grief and for those of us who are spiritual, we can pray for them. I don't know anyone that was ever hurt because they were prayed for.

I intentionally did not participate in any threads on this tragedy. This is not the time to discuss gun control or monitoring the world, it is the time for sympathy and support and that is what I saw you express which is why I wanted to join in support of your words.

It's mainly the gun nuts that you see creating those threads

Too paranoid, they think Obama is behind every mass shooting because he wants to take their guns away. To them their right to own guns trumps a parent's right to watch their kid grow up. Their solution to every mass shooting is more guns.

If only a kid in that classroom would have had a gun this would have never happened

Originally posted by muse7
It's mainly the gun nuts that you see creating those threads

I hope you're introspective enough to see the irony in that post.

Family releases dash cam video of a questionable death. (WARNING: GRAPHIC), page 1

its not just every day people doing this sort of thing
even the police do this
i think that if your a coward or have been bullied in school
you should not become a law enforcer/muderer
im not saying that all cops are bad as is proved daily
but surely they should do some better vetting
looking at their school reports to see if they are
the bullies or the bullied
im sorry this turned into a bit of a rant but you must see what i mean

oh by the way im not a gun nut and why not use rubber bullets?

reply to post by muse7


Yes, and its that type of mentality, which I am alluding too.

All I want is for people to realize the tragedy here. Not making it in a political issue, or blaming society for this. There is absolutely no justification for this tragedy.

vvv

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


Why can't a person have respect and be traumatized at the same time? Why is it that people feel the need to direct an individual's reaction? People are complex and so are their emotions. I am sad, horrified, traumatized, suspicious, outraged, and angry. Is it alright to experience all of the emotions that a situation like this evokes and show respect at the same time.

Respect means honoring the dead in this situation. The only way to do that is get to the truth of the matter. Anyone who would discourage such act is due mistrust.

reply to post by GrantedBail


Getting to the truth of the matter is one thing. Doing it by using ridiculous logic is another.

This is not a personal attack on any member on here. Its about how we as society has degraded, living for this type of drama. Whenever a tragedy like this happens, we tend to forget about the real tragedy. We then discuss it like a soap opera, emotions running rampant. Sometimes sensibilities are left at the door, and respect with it.

vvv

Originally posted by muse7
It's mainly the gun nuts that you see creating those threads

Your post labeling people that are pro 2nd amendment "Gun Nuts" further shows the hypocracy that most people that are anti rights push daily.

I've found the opposite to be true, I didn't hear Pro 2nd amendment people say anything initially, in fact you'll never hear anyone Pro 2a tell you that you must own a gun, but you sure will see people Anti 2a tell you that you can't own a gun. As I watched the twitter Hashtag #Newtown minutes after the media announced the shooting, all you saw was people screaming "Gun Control Now!".

Even though the shooter was from a state that has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, ignorant people scream "Gun Control".

In NJ you must have a Background Check each and everytime you purchase a pistol. (To ensure you havent commited a crime since your last pistol purchase)

You must purchase a permit for every pistol you buy (It registers the gun as belonging to you)

You must submit to a mental health records search.

You must get a NICS check (FBI background check) for every new firearm purchased.

Pistol & Rifle Magazine Capacity are capped at 15 rounds.

A semi automatic shotgun has a 5 round magazine max capacity.

We still have an "Assault Weapons Ban"

Having a Daisy Red Rider BB Gun is actually illegal here if you don't have a firearms ID card.


NJ GUN LAWS

What other CONTROL MEASURES do you people consider reasonable and prudent? All of the gun laws in the world would not have stopped this tragedy. The shooter was mentally unstable and STOLE firearms. The amount of firearms related crimes commited by registered gun owners is statistically virtually nil. But that doesn't seem to stop people screaming for gun control. When I ask people for Ideas, they usually want an outright gun ban, as if somehow that will magically *POOF* the 200,000,000+ firearms that are already in existence in the country. If there is a gun ban, law abiding citizens will turn in their firearms, but criminals won't , because criminals don't follow the law. If there was a way to go back in time and erase the invention of gunpowder and firearms, I'd be all for it. But unfortunately you cant put the toothpaste back in the tube, nor can you legislate safety. So until you can assure me that there are no more guns in the hands of criminals, I'll go ahead and hold on to mine.

I doubt any of you will watch these videos, most anti rights folks don't seem to want to embrace anything that doesnt already fit their world view. A rebuttal for the vids would be nice, but I won't hold my breath.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


We don't need each state to have their own gun laws, what we need is stricter gun control NATION WIDE.

Every state under the same set of regulations, sure the 2nd amendment was added in there so there could be a WELL REGULATED militia.

Did you read that? WELL REGULATED.

I'm sure if the founding fathers had known back then the type of weapons that would be available today then I highly doubt they would have added that amendment.

Originally posted by muse7
reply to post by EyesWideShut

 

We don't need each state to have their own gun laws, what we need is stricter gun control NATION WIDE.

Every state under the same set of regulations, sure the 2nd amendment was added in there so there could be a WELL REGULATED militia.

Did you read that? WELL REGULATED.

I'm sure if the founding fathers had known back then the type of weapons that would be available today then I highly doubt they would have added that amendment.

If NJ's firearms legislation was enacted nationwide would it be enough "CONTROL" for you?

The "WELL REGULATED" clearly is in regards to the militia.

“A free people ought to be armed.”
– George Washington

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”
– Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
- Patrick Henry

"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don’t have a gun, freedom of speech has no power.”
~Yoshimi Ishikawa


“Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense.”
- John Adams

"The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world not destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them … the weak will become prey to the strong.”
~Thomas Paine




“To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380

“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.”
- James Madison, Federalist Paper #46

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
- William Pitt, Nov. 18, 1783

“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
- Noah Webster, 1787

“That rifle on the wall of the labourer’s cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
- George Orwell

"The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military. The hired servants of our rulers. Only the government-and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws.”
~Edward Abbey




”No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.”
~James Burgh

.”Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate; we are all qualified, entitled, and morally obliged to evaluate the conduct of our rulers. This political judgment, moreover, is not simply or primarily a right, but like self-preservation, a duty to God. As such it is a judgment that men cannot part with according to the God of Nature. It is the first and foremost of our inalienable rights without which we can preserve no other.”
~John Locke

“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
- The Dalai Lama, May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times

.”Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
~Thomas Jefferson



”You are bound to meet misfortune if you are unarmed because, among other reasons, people despise you….There is simply no comparison between a man who is armed and one who is not. It is unreasonable to expec

Most of those threads are started by the pro gun nuts? That is not what I saw, I saw much of them started by the ones against guns. But I may have just noticed those more than the others.

I know that some people cannot find out about a shocking and traumatic event without discussing it, and in particular, digesting it through finding the chain of causes that led to it. We want to find out how to avoid this re-occuring in the future.

The people that are bringing up the gun control question are doing so because they care, because it touches them.

If you are asking people to not care, and to keep distance from the situation and topic, I think that is in vain. A lot of us have kids, or people close to us do.

-And in my own opinion, I think it is important for us to look at what part WE play in the cultural influence of such events! To examine what are the values, ideals, morals, and practices that might encourage the occurance of such terrible tragedies.

I see people reacting passonately, but I don't think that means they are not sensitive to the experiences of those involved. Those people are (hopefully!) not spending their time on ATS right now.

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep


When I imagine the disbelieve, the pain, the despair and the anger in the people who lost a child, grandchild, brother, sister, friend, schoolmate... When I imagine the amount of people that live in a shattered reality right now...

I respect.