Mass Shooting Conspiracy . . .

I'm not pro-gun or anti-gun and this thread isn't about that. However, I do notice that every time there is a mass shooting, and there has been 7 this year, that the conspiracy always revolves around the government brainwashing people to do it to scare people into thinking we need stricter gun laws so that the government doesn't have to face an armed citizenry.

This doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it made sense 200 years ago when the US army had a legitimate reason to be afraid of the citizens but how will a few people, hell even thousands of people, with guns defend themselves against tanks, drones, bombs, etc?

Perhaps the people that are brainwashing others to commit mass shootings are the ones who would benefit from more guns being sold. One of the common sentiments on ATS is that if more people had guns then this kind of violence would occur less.

So perhaps the people who profit the most from gun sales are the ones involved in this conspiracy because they think more people will go out and buy guns because it is logical to think that I need a gun to defend myself against all the crazies.

or

The people that profit the most from gun sales will hope that people who are already own guns will go out and buy more because they are paranoid about guns laws.

I am definitely reaching the conclusion that some organized group is instrumental in implementing these shootings. It just reeks of the hegelian dialectic.

I think obama is hiring these gun toting fools. I mean what better way to control guns then to have a movie theater shot up, a mall, and now 22 kids. Its obvious, it really is.

The most recent shooting has all the signs of being made by some sort of organisation. In Australia we had a mass shooting that resulted in stricter gun laws. There has been many the documentry made on how there was no way the shooting was what it seemed. One of the greatest signs was the kill:shot ratio.

Much like the Port Arthur Massacre in Australia 1996, this most recent elementary shooting in the US also has a strangely high kill:shot ratio.

It is simply not possible for your every day Joe to simply fire off shoots so precise that they kill with every shot.

Judging by Obama's comments on this event, I believe there will be a push in parliment for stricter gun laws some time soon.

The government has the arms, ability and manpower to destroy the citizenry. However, does the military have that desire to kill their fellow citizens? There's an obvious answer to this. However if the citizenry is unarmed, then this discussion doesn't even need to take place. You see?

Originally posted by entermemo
I'm not pro-gun or anti-gun and this thread isn't about that. However, I do notice that every time there is a mass shooting, and there has been 7 this year, that the conspiracy always revolves around the government brainwashing people to do it to scare people into thinking we need stricter gun laws so that the government doesn't have to face an armed citizenry.

This doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it made sense 200 years ago when the US army had a legitimate reason to be afraid of the citizens but how will a few people, hell even thousands of people, with guns defend themselves against tanks, drones, bombs, etc?

Perhaps the people that are brainwashing others to commit mass shootings are the ones who would benefit from more guns being sold. One of the common sentiments on ATS is that if more people had guns then this kind of violence would occur less.

So perhaps the people who profit the most from gun sales are the ones involved in this conspiracy because they think more people will go out and buy guns because it is logical to think that I need a gun to defend myself against all the crazies.

or

The people that profit the most from gun sales will hope that people who are already own guns will go out and buy more because they are paranoid about guns laws.

Maybe the people committing mass murder are truly mentally ill?

With populations rising and more people living in the inner city, it only raises the frequency of incidences...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
The urban environment and mental disorders: Epigenetic links.

For the first time in human history, more than half of the world's population lives in urban areas and this is projected to increase to two-thirds by 2030. This increased urbanity of the world's population has substantial public health implications. Nearly a century of research has shown higher risk of mental disorder among persons living in urban versus rural areas

If these mass shootings aren't conspiracy... we have a scary future ahead of us...

Although that may not be entirely true. There's been a lot of research carried out lately that points in the direction of creating or selecting specific drugs that address the specific area of the brain necessary according to the individual's genes and so forth.

The Holmes incident sure lends itself to conspiracy... who knows?

What matters is that people become more observant, willing to help, and are aware of those that may be suffering from mental illness.

Something disturbing and evil is going on in America, that much is for sure! If this isn't orchestrated by some kind of organization, and frankly right now there is no evidence for or against that, we have to ask what has changed to create this rash of intense violence.

I am not at all ready to make any judgment call in this yet, but it absolutely requires further investigation. I'm keeping an open mind, as should everyone else in my opinion.

Edit, Addition: I have to say though the open mind is absolutely essential in order to figure out what is going on in the States and change it. There are far too many people who go into investigating a suspicious situation such as this knowing exactly the kind of conclusion they want to come to.

A lot of people here, and in the conspiracy community do not trust their governments, and believe in an evil New World Order for example, they will come to the conclusion that it is a plot by them. I have been exceptionally critical of that particular theory in the past, but as I have said, I am not ruling anything out now, and nor am I going into the research on this expecting to find any one thing or another.

Tomorrow I am requesting of my editor that I get sent back to America to investigate this. I've got the proposal ready. The first big question I want to answer is this: Did any of the shooters know each other or have a shared experience in some way that would connect them? I think this is the key question in determining if this is a truly evil, insane conspiracy or an evil, disturbing trend that is emerging.

Frankly, I think either one is an absolutely terrifying prospect.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I am definitely reaching the conclusion that some organized group is instrumental in implementing these shootings. It just reeks of the hegelian dialectic.

edit on 14-12-2012 by DarthMuerte because: LOL, too many tabs open at one time.

Finally, someone has said it. Thank you.

But honestly, I think Hegel would be appalled. I call it the modern dialectic. A perversion of Hegel's.

Maybe you should dissect the shootings before you make your conclusions.

For example the most famous one, the columbine shooting. Allot of the students witnessed 4 shooters not 2. After the shooting new laws gun control laws wear made. Im not going to list facts from the shooting but you should really check out what the witnesses had to say.

Their are 300 million American's in this country and a estimated 350million guns in the us(estimated by the FBI) and thats just unregistered guns. Just because a country has a strategic military advantage does not mean they will win. For example the founding of this country....

actually the story coming out has changed...

originally one report stated that the cops had put someone in handcuffs...

now it has been removed



also a second shooter was mentioned and now is gone....

Originally posted by ripcontrol
actually the story coming out has changed...

originally one report stated that the cops had put someone in handcuffs...

now it has been removed



also a second shooter was mentioned and now is gone....

According to the AP wire, there was a "suspicious individual" found in the woods around the school wearing "military style" pants. He was detained, and specifically was cited by several witnesses including the arriving parents, professing his innocence as he was lead away. The police later stated that he was released from custody and has been cleared from any involvement in the incident.

Edit, Addition: Also the so-called "second shooter report" is a common misconception held by witnesses in many mass shootings. It comes from the sound of echoing gunshots and the sighting of American SWAT police that initially arrive on the scene because of the tactical apparel and assault weapons they carry. The same was seen in the Wisconsin Temple Shooting but was later found to be incorrect and the "shooter team" that was reported by witnesses was in fact a Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department SWAT team.

The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world.
www.reuters.com...

21.8 million Americans hunted at least once over the past five years. Previous estimates have shown over 14 million youth and adults hunt each year.
www.nssf.org...

United States Active Military: 1,458,219; Reserve Military: 1,458,500; Paramilitary: 11,035; Total: 2,927,754
en.wikipedia.org...

The United States has the largest standing army in the world, not counting the Active and Reserve "Official" militery forces, with 21.8 million Americans armed and at least somewhat familiar with their weapons.
A good sized portion of those hunters are likely former militery, with some of the best training that could be provided at the time they served.

Is it any wonder why the Department of Homeland Security declaired returning Veterans as potential terriorists?
We have the training and the will to protect ourselves, our friends and neighbors from not only criminals but any militery force attempting to take over this country by force, including our own.

I don't think today's shooting is a conspiracy.

I think the shooter was mentally ill.

This is just a guess on my part. But, I think the shooter was angry at his mother for not giving him more attention.

Possibly he felt his mother gave her students more attention than he was getting and was jealous.

He was a young adult and probably struggling with having to grow up.

Perhaps his mother wanted him to move out of the house.

Maybe she told him to grow up and get a job. She has other kids to worry about now.

All just assumptions. But, more common than a brainwashed manchurian candidate.

reply to post by MagicWand67


This is a very legitimate possible theory as well. What we do know about all of the mass shooters, with the exception of the two in the Milwaukee area, is that they were carried out by young white males, with history of mental illness, who felt that their lives were falling apart. If this is what it comes down to, then it is indicative of a trend, not a conspiracy.

I would call on theorists to keep open this possibility as we investigate any possible connections between the shooters. The search for facts leads to finding the truth. If we allow our gut reactions and paranoia to rule our judgments, we will probably never come to the root causes of these horrible tragedies. They could continue, and if they do, many more innocent people will die horribly.

It's very unlikely we'll ever know if these things are spontaneous or if they're being done in some kind of coordinated effort by some organized group. The media obviously isn't doing any kind of real journalism here.

One thing is for sure, however. The people who want to ban guns (and/or implement various forms of "gun control" as they call it) are real and they are not hiding their desire to do so. And they absolutely will use these incidents to their advantage. Crocodile tears. Whether they're involved in the actual incidents or whether they're real, spontaneous events that are somehow just coincidentally happening like this makes not one bit of difference in the end. The gun control/ban crowd is opportunistic and how many of these things do you honestly think are going to happen before they realize they can use them to maximum effect to induce the public to beg for hardcore gun control?

And by the way, it also doesn't matter why they want gun bans. It doesn't have to be a nefarious plot in order for it to end up being bad for the country in the long run. I believe their motives ARE less than pure but even if they sincerely just want to reduce violent crime, I don't trust them over the long run.

Once upon a time I advocated very strict ideas of gun control. I no longer do. I have been a victim of crime twice, and both instances a gun was used to threaten me. It was these experiences that lead me to support gun control. After several years of seeing this type of tragedy happen over and over I changed my views. Both assaults that happened to me would have still happened even if beer bottles were used instead of guns. There are myriads of weapons that can kill, especially a group of defenseless children.

People commit crimes out of desperation, anger, confusion and yes....brain washing. How many of the school shootings in recent history were committed by boys and young men on some type of medication? The mood altering stuff that doctors hand out like candy have some serious side affects.

Rather than disarming folks that chose to protect themselves when needed, those not wanting to rely on the questionable response time of law enforcement, we should start looking at the causes.

Originally posted by entermemo

This doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it made sense 200 years ago when the US army had a legitimate reason to be afraid of the citizens but how will a few people, hell even thousands of people, with guns defend themselves against tanks, drones, bombs, etc?

Because in a citizen's revolt you'd have a sizeable portion of the Military and Corporations defect.

Scientists, medics, pilots etc..

You think we wouldn't have tanks or drones?

Originally posted by MagicWand67
I don't think today's shooting is a conspiracy.

I think the shooter was mentally ill.

This is just a guess on my part. But, I think the shooter was angry at his mother for not giving him more attention.

Possibly he felt his mother gave her students more attention than he was getting and was jealous.

He was a young adult and probably struggling with having to grow up.

Perhaps his mother wanted him to move out of the house.

Maybe she told him to grow up and get a job. She has other kids to worry about now.

All just assumptions. But, more common than a brainwashed manchurian candidate.

You are in all probability correct but there are suspicions from Port Arthur Australia about the shootings of 28 April 1996.

There is reason to think the Port Arthur massacre was planned as early 1987 when, after a specially called Premier's meeting in Hobart in December 1987, the New South Wales Labour Premier, Mr. Barry Unsworth stated, "there would be no effective gun control in Australia until there was a massacre in Tasmania"

members.iimetro.com.au...


Meaning it is suspected of having been done before.

reply to post by RedmoonMWC


I fully accept the possibility that a conspiracy could exist in this and other similar cases.

I also believe that some major conspiracies are in fact true.

However, I also accept the reality that some individuals suffer from mental illness.

And in evaluating what is known so far, the fact that he killed his own mother and the children she taught, leads me to believe that he was deeply mentally and emotionally disturbed.

The victims seem to be more personal to him than other mass shootings of the past.

Originally posted by neobludragon
I think obama is hiring these gun toting fools. I mean what better way to control guns then to have a movie theater shot up, a mall, and now 22 kids. Its obvious, it really is.

There aren't enough for this partisan horse#.