How I know God exists.

It is clear that in this thread we find a multitude of spirituality with different interpretations as to what Jesus meant.

The dogma of the typical Christian makes me want to vomit. Sorry but I am just being honest. It has never set well with me because I feel as I know who my creator is and its not the mean old man in the Bible the Christian loves to display and change the meanings around to fit someone who is human and not spirit. All the while for them to tell me I am the one who contradicts what it says when I see they do.

Its a never ending circle of he said this and he meant that.

The last thing I want to say to the two Christians above who are trying to make me sick to my tummy is this...

Search within your own heart and leave others be to love thy neighbor as their self and to seek the Kingdom of God within and not abroad.

I am a sister who also loves Christ and you have shown that you are against me because of a book that was written by mans hands hundreds of years after Jesus died. My interpretation is not yours and you cannot handle it as if I am some rodent to step on. Believe what you may.... Suit yourself, but please let others have a mind of their own without the man made dogma you hear from your preacher/tv.

Save your judgments for yourself!

reply to post by windword


I don't quite fit in anywhere as I have searched the world over for my "place" in religion. I decided at 38 that from my studies I do not fit in for a reason. It is because all of the religions have truth but not the whole truth from my pov. I am free as of now to not hold myself in contempt of any dogma or cult. Thank God! lol

When I went to Church of Christ school and church's of which were different in denomination I just never felt right and felt torn in my stomach as if I was being fed lies. I didn't feel love like I felt I should and so my journey began 20 years ago to seek everything I could about all religions and the Universe and the human body. I am still quite busy with my studies. HAHA!

Learning and sharing what I have learned is a thrill as there have been so many times that while seeking a revelation is revealed within my spirit and this is what the Christian calls the "Holy Spirit".

There are many on ATS who do not hold onto a religion who feel the same as I so I know I am not alone in my thoughts nor have I a loose interpretation and yes it is more metaphysical, literal, and spiritual aspect from which I read. I take it all into consideration before saying "I KNOW".

reply to post by MamaJ


May your tummy get better!

Unfortunately, Jesus offended some people too.

Sorry if you find us offensive for trying to pass on his message.

reply to post by Deetermined

I'm telling others what the Bible says, based on the knowledge of those who followed him directly and/or by the power of the Holy Spirit. Sorry if you don't like it.

You're telling others what you interpret the Bible to say.....
based on the hearsay that is part of the Bible (and that is probably just a reiteration of what your church leader has told you). But you denigrate others for having the power of the Holy Spirit to determine for themselves what the message was.

I don't like you pretending that you know everything, that is correct. But I don't "hate" you. I just think you are misguided, just like you think others (including myself) are misguided. You don't have a monopoly on the truth; and I'm sorry if you don't like it. But it is what it is.

reply to post by Deetermined


Be wise with your tongue because the heart doesn't lie. This is my last post in this thread. Im sure I will see you around on ATS but I can't say Im looking forward to feeling your cold heart from your words. My stomach is already feeling better.

From your Holy Bible....

"Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."

"James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."

"Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"

Here he doesn't sound like you AT ALL! He sounds completely opposite of you really.

"John 13:35
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

It doesn't matter what religion you are.... it really doesn't.

"Colossians 3:11
Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all."

Meaning HE IS IN ALL, not just the Christian. He came to save the WHOLE WORLD, meaning EVERYONE... not just the Christian. If you understood his story outside the Bible you would understand how his story since creation is one of awe!

This is especially for you...
"1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,"

Oh and this too!!!
"I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you religion scholars, you Pharisees! Frauds! Your lives are roadblocks to God's kingdom. You refuse to enter, and won't let anyone else in either. You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned." (Matthew 23:13-15)

And this....
"Don't set people up as experts over your life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; let him tell you what to do. No one else should carry the title of 'Father'; you have only one Father, and he's in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

I hold true for myself what I have taught myself. This is my life to do what I may and I guarantee you I will never listen to a preacher tell me who my Father is in Heaven or tell me how to love Jesus. I definitely do not need you to teach me the same dogma I have learned many times over as it is not true within my spirit. AT ALL.

Peace to you and yours!

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Deetermined

 

You're telling others what you interpret the Bible to say.....

How is that different from anyone else's argument or opinion on this thread?

But you denigrate others for having the power of the Holy Spirit to determine for themselves what the message was.

No, I'm just pointing out that not all interpretations actually come from the Holy Spirit. If someone wants to claim they have access to the Holy Spirit when the Bible says that the Holy Spirit only bares witness to God the Father (Yahweh) and Jesus (including the fact that they are all connected), they may want to do some more research on who the Holy Spirit is.

If you find what I suggest offensive, I apologize, but I think some major research is in order.

I don't like you pretending that you know everything, that is correct. But I don't "hate" you. I just think you are misguided, just like you think others (including myself) are misguided. You don't have a monopoly on the truth; and I'm sorry if you don't like it. But it is what it is.

I don't hate you either or anyone else on here for that matter.

You're right, I don't have a monopoly on YOUR truth. It is what it is.

I can only defend the Bible and my truth to see if it resonates with anyone else's truth.

Peace.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Toadmund

 

If I'm not mistaken, isn't anyone free to bring up and discuss again anything that's been posted previously?

Feel free to pick up where you left off.

May as well run around in circles, when the goal is to run up a hill in a straight line.

Like the title 'How I know God exists.' does not make sense, because NOBODY knows that, nobody;
but some of you claim faith as proof, while real evidence means nothing to thee, the cement has set, it's too dense to get through.

No point.

reply to post by Deetermined

Do you have a text reference for this, so I can review it for myself? I don't follow videos where I can't research the resources for myself.

The story of Jesus and the Adulteress (John 7. 53–8. 11) is fraught with historical and literary problems, many of which have seemed insoluble. On only two points is there a scholarly consensus: the passage did not originally form part of the Fourth Gospel, and it bears a close resemblance to Synoptic, particularly Lukan, traditions about Jesus.

The arguments for these judgments are overwhelming and do not need to be repeated here. In some respects these unanimous conclusions have themselves brought into sharp focus the thorny problems of the story's textual and pre-literary history: (1) Textual. Since the oldest and best textual witnesses of the Gospel of John do not contain the passage, how should the allusive references to it from the second and third centuries be evaluated? journals.cambridge.org...’

Right then. Jesus said one Greek word, but a word with two meanings, and Nicodemus understood the wrong meaning. This isn't just my own interpretation; it's the view of (among others) the NET Bible: This is a favorite technique of the author of the Fourth Gospel, and it is lost in almost all translations at this point.

John uses the word 5 times, in 3:3, 7; 3:31; 19:11 and 23. In the latter 3 cases the context makes clear that it means "from above." Here (3:3, 7) it could mean either, but the primary meaning intended by Jesus is "from above."

Nicodemus apparently understood it the other way, which explains his reply, "How can a man be born when he is old? He can't enter his mother's womb a second time and be born, can he?" The author uses the technique of the "misunderstood question" often to bring out a particularly important point: Jesus says something which is misunderstood by the disciples or (as here) someone else, which then gives Jesus the opportunity to explain more fully and in more detail what he really meant. Emphasis mine.

What the author of John apparently failed to consider is that this misunderstanding between Jesus and Nicodemus cannot have occurred, since Jesus and Nicodemus would have been speaking Aramaic, not Greek, and there is no such double meaning in Aramaic.
errancy.org...

reply to post by Deetermined

but I think some major research is in order.

Ma'am....just like others in this thread have stated, I've been doing "major research" for decades.
Yet, you will continue to discount, disparage, denigrate, and demonize (yep, "demonize") those who see things differently from what you do.

My main protest towards you is that you hold that "nothing will ever change", and you refuse to look at ways and means that it MIGHT change....
if only people like you would open their minds and consider that we are all humans, stuck here together, and none of us - NONE OF US - know the real "truth."

Peace be with you.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Deetermined

 

"Colossians 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."

It's talking about the philosophy of man and other spirits, not God or Christ's.

"James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."

James 1 also says this...

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

"Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"

I don't think I need to rehash the Holy Spirit part again.

"John 13:35
By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Regardless of how much you dislike what I have to say, I'm not the one going around saying you make me want to vomit.

"Colossians 3:11
Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all."

You do realize that in the beginning that the disciples were fighting over whether or not to preach to the Gentiles? When Paul says "Here" in the beginning of this verse, he's talking to the church that was created there. This is not to say that he was speaking to the whole world.

Meaning HE IS IN ALL, not just the Christian. He came to save the WHOLE WORLD, meaning EVERYONE... not just the Christian. If you understood his story outside the Bible you would understand how his story since creation is one of awe!

Jesus did come to save the whole world, but you'd have to be blind to think that everyone in the whole world is accepting of him. Obviously, not everyone does. You're given free will to choose him or reject him. Choosing him means seeking him with all of your body, soul and mind and wanting to soak up what he had to say.

"1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,"

I think I've been more respectful to you than the other way around, regardless of whether or not you liked what I had to say.

By the way, notice how gentle and respectful "godlover25" was? Did you even take note of half of what he said? No, you glossed right over it not even noticing what he really said about whether or not he respected your beliefs and you said nothing. Why? Because you didn't even notice.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you religion scholars, you Pharisees! Frauds! Your lives are roadblocks to God's kingdom. You refuse to enter, and won't let anyone else in either. You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned." (Matthew 23:13-15)

You obviously didn't realize that the Pharisees were committing wickedness and were keeping people out based on their physical practices, not their beliefs. Same goes for the verse you posted below.

"Don't set people up as experts over your life, letting them tell you what to do. Save that authority for God; let him tell you what to do. No one else should carry the title of 'Father'; you have only one Father, and he's in heaven." (Matthew 23:9)

If you want to give God that authority, you have to totally surrender to his will and do what he asks.

I hold true for myself what I have taught myself. This is my life to do what I may and I guarantee you I will never listen to a preacher tell me who my Father is in Heaven or tell me how to love Jesus. I definitely do not need you to teach me the same dogma I have learned many times over as it is not true within my spirit. AT ALL.

Not everything was meant to be revealed to all. Notice how you keep saying "I hold true what I taught myself", "this is my life to do what I want". As long as this is how you really feel, God won't show you his will.

Peace to you and yours!

reply to post by Deetermined

Not everything was meant to be revealed to all. Notice how you keep saying "I hold true what I taught myself", "this is my life to do what I want". As long as this is how you really feel, God won't show you his will.

And......
what makes you believe that you are one of the chosen to whom it would be revealed?
You don't answer questions, though, I know that.

I believe anyone who has searched inwardly has the capacity to "know".

reply to post by Deetermined


El Elyon and Yahweh are two distinctly different deities. Didn't Jesus say that no one has seen God's face or heard His voice?

And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

Well, plenty of people saw Yahweh, walked with him, talked with him, heard his voice and his foot steps.

Further, El Elyon is the "Father of the Gods, all 70 of them"

The phrase bn ilm ("sons of the gods") is also attested in Ugaritic texts, as is the phrase phr bn ilm ("assembly of the sons of the gods").
Elsewhere in the Ugarit corpus it is suggested that the bn ilm were the 70 sons of Asherah and El, who were the titulary deities of the people of the known world, and their "hieros gamos" marriage with the daughters of men gave rise to their rulers.
en.wikipedia.org...

If you read further down Deuteronomy 32, you'll see Yahweh's frustration with his charge and the desire to destroy them But he doesn't because he fears his enemies will take credit for their destruction.

25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: 27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the Lord hath not done all this.

Yahweh had enemies. Baal? Krishna? Zeus? You can't deny that these Gods were very real to their followers, as real as Yahweh was to his followers. The Bible is full of changes to texts to promote their own God and their agenda.

Noah is a good example of this. The Flood story was completely stolen, re-written and the Hebrew God named inserted instead of Enlil, who was named in the earlier myth of the "Epic of Gilgamesh," as the God who caused the flood.

Later, the Hebrew scribes merged the two names, confusing their Yahweh god as the highest god.

reply to post by wildtimes


God doesn't listen to everyone when their only purpose for seeking him is to fulfill their own will and not his.

When people develop a relationship with God through prayer and Bible study, repenting, and an honest to God desire to do God's will and not their own, then he fills you with the Holy Spirit and answers prayers.

I know you're not going to like my answer, but I didn't want you to accuse me of not answering it.

reply to post by Deetermined

God doesn't listen to everyone when their only purpose for seeking him is to fulfill their own will and not his.

When people develop a relationship with God through prayer and Bible study, repenting, and an honest to God desire to do God's will and not their own, then he fills you with the Holy Spirit and answers prayers.

But....
who are you to decide who is "honest", or who really wants to "develop a relationship with God"?
Maybe what GOD wants is for everyone to get over old-school dogma, and come together. Maybe the answer to our problems is for everyone to look "outside the box", and have compassion, and hope, that we can one day all get along.

Please, don't tell me I'm not worthy or I don't "hear the Holy Spirit" ...... those judgments are only according to you (and whoever you listen to as a preacher)....

I know I do hear it. You cant' take that away from me, or anyone else on here, who feels the indwelling light.

reply to post by windword


I'm not understanding your point.

Jesus said that no man had seen God or had ascended to the Father but him.

We know that Moses was given special rights to see God as a burning bush, etc. We know God came as a cloud to lead them out of Egypt. We know Moses and others heard his voice, but not often for fear of death.

What it means is that none of them had seen God the way that Jesus has, in his full form.

reply to post by windword


I'm not seeing any proof that El Elyon and Yahweh are separate deities.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with God being displeased with his people.

Jesus was displeased with his people too.

reply to post by wildtimes

Ma'am....just like others in this thread have stated, I've been doing "major research" for decades.

And just how much of that research was dedicated to just the Holy Spirit and nothing else?

I'm convinced there's more truth in a baby's smile, a sunset, a waterfall and the nights sky than all the books, all the words and all the sayings from all the "spiritual" teachers who ever lived. The world is a mirror to your inner world. Gods and demons live therein. amen

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by windword

 

I'm not seeing any proof that El Elyon and Yahweh are separate deities.

You haven't looked. You haven't researched. You haven't ever even thought of anything that you weren't taught about the Bible and its stories. There is no proving anything to you. There's only refuting your narrow minded belief that you and only you hold the keys to Jesus, his message, what the Bible really is saying and what it means.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with God being displeased with his people.

Jesus was displeased with his people too.

Yep. You missed the point.

Yahweh was "afraid" to destroy his people, his inheritance, because of his enemies. Who do you suppose were his enemies? His sons? Pfft.

Why did Jesus say that no one has seen or heard God. Didn't he know the scripture and that Yahweh has appeared and spoken to men before him?

Yahweh is NOT the father God of Jesus. In my opinion, Yahweh is who Jesus met in the desert, the liar, the murderer, the father of the pharisees.

reply to post by Deetermined

And just how much of that research was dedicated to just the Holy Spirit and nothing else?

Well,
a person who looks within and feels the Holy Spirit, and believes they are doing so, is doing so!-

For you to claim they are wrong, and that what they feel is the "Holy Spirit" is a "demon", or "Satan"......
is RIDICULOUS (and judgmental and superior and shallow).

You Don't Know!!!

It is those who feel the urge WITHIN and research THAT.......by personal motive, and with a personal "take" on it....who are certainly following their Divine Spark of the Holy Spirit (which dwells within us all - regardless of what you say).

Why should anyone take your word for it, Dee? Really! Why? You obviously have a very restricted opinion. Some people are more open to suggestion, and to considering alternatives that aren't so fatalistic.