Scotland Yard investigating allegations senior politicians abused children in the 1980s and used 'c

Originally posted by stargatetravels
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

To be honest this story just had not taken off on ATS at all.
The story should be huge, it's a true conspiracy and involves elites of all description.
There are sites out there with balls, really discussing this.
On another site, one thread is 1500+ pages has 3.5m views, and Christ knows how many posts, truly staggering numbers, ATS is just not the place for this story, really not sure why.

I've thought about this a lot. It's not just ATS: this isn't really being discussed anywhere that I can tell, and it seems to be due to user avoidance of the topic, rather than the subject being obscured or buried.

Even the grimmest conspiracies have some kind of "plot hook", an angle that makes them engaging to follow and stimulates debate. As serious as some of those discussions are, the participants are mostly there because they enjoy the conversation. There is usually also some degree of the fantastic that allows for emotional distance. But this?

The idea that the abuse of children has been systematized within the institutions charged with protecting and governing us? Most of us have a very hard time even coming to grips with the sex offender down the block, let alone something as staggering in its implications as this.

The topic is avoided, therefore, because it induces real fear and disgust in virtually everyone, even the most cynical and callous. There is no reward in examining it. There is nothing but horror and helplessness. We'd rather just let our eyes slide right past the subject than have to feel that way. I doubt it's even a voluntary thing.

The monsters responsible know that this is the common reaction, and use it. No need to expend much effort in the cover-up when the public would rather be looking elsewhere anyway.

reply to post by Eidolon23


"The topic is avoided, therefore, because it induces real fear and disgust in virtually everyone, even the most cynical and callous. There is no reward in examining it. There is nothing but horror and helplessness. We'd rather just let our eyes slide right past the subject than have to feel that way. I doubt it's even a voluntary thing.

The monsters responsible know that this is the common reaction, and use it. No need to expend much effort in the cover-up when the public would rather be looking elsewhere anyway. "

Your analysis is right I think. It's an awful, awful subject.

I was thinking recently when watching TV, how much exploitation and violence towards women, prostitutes, girls etc do you see? Quite alot in some shows and it seems almost acceptable but there are never any young boys getting the same treatment, it would be too much for most people.

The Waterhouse enquiry in 2000, (in which Lord McAlpine was investigated amongst others) found :

Widespread sexual abuse of boys occurred in children's residential establishments in Clwyd between 1974 and 1990. There were some incidents of sexual abuse of girl residents in these establishments but they were comparatively rare.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

5 other carehomes in Wales also had abuse occuring over 10 years, just how many victims was that? Are we to believe that similar abuse wasn't happening in other parts of the country? Of course the Jersey abuse investigation found that the bits of skull, restraints in the cellars, cadaver odor, shallow graves and children's teeth all to be quite innocent.

Evidence files for the waterhouse enquiry were destroyed for 'insurance purposes' and many abusers were not named or charged due to public interest. Who were they and why were they allowed to get away with it?

It is all quite shocking and abhorrent.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
reply to post by LFN69

 

I agree with you about the celeb that wasn't charged or named. It's just possible he was innocent and the police have an agenda to make an example of well known entertainers at the moment. With Saville there were rumours and anecdotes floating around for YEARS, no such rumours with the others. The police have got things wrong before and manipulated evidence to suit themselves.

After all, can we trust what the police say when there are criminals within their own ranks?

A list of more than 2,400 Britons who the FBI believes have subscribed to paedophile websites contains the names of more than 100 police officers, including a detective chief superintendent, it was revealed last night. But in what was developing into a major scandal, it was also disclosed that it could take under-funded British police up to five years to work their way through the list and bring the culprits to justice.

The list - which contained the names of the two Cambridgeshire police officers who worked on the Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells murder inquiry and who have since been charged with child pornography offences - was supplied to Britain's National Crime Squad after three people suspected of involvement in paedophile websites were arrested in Texas. Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You make a fair and reasoned point.
Thing is, we are talking about "THAT" crime, something that is the most gruesome of crimes against children.
Id have to say that, if we were talking about corruption, tax avoidence, you know, the run of the mill stuff that has gone on within the establishment ever since it became the establishment, id totally go with you on your suspicions.
In this case, who the hell would willfully hide and protect a child abuser? If somebody was found to be protecting one, destroying evidence and suchlike,they too would be considered as bad as said abuser and, lets face it, nobody on the face of this Earth would want to be guilty by association let alone be shown to be protecting a Child molester.
I think that is the salient point now, the abusers really have nowhere to run, no favours to call in and nowhere to go.
I just hope that innocent people are not dragged into all of this ( see my previous post) where there names are dragged through the mud without any foundation whatsoever.
Id expect this whole inquiry to take a LONG time, they have to get it right, they cannot afford to make mistakes. Did the damages that Lord McAlpine received REALLY make up for being accused of being a disgusting creature.
I dont think so.
i think its time for us to put our faith in the "Establishment" I dont think they want child abusers in their ranks any more than we do!

reply to post by LFN69


I wish I had the same faith that you do.

The facts are that witnesses came forward in the Welsh carehome scandal and were treated apallingly- a number of abusers were never named or charged. A number of witnesses died suspiciously. Most recently one of them was made to look like a complete idiot when he named McAlpine. It was the POLICE that showed Messham a photo of his abuser and told him it was McAlpine.

Witnesses came forward about Savile and were ignored for years. He was investigated by police on a number of occasions and let off. Savile had meetings with the police every week at his home and said he could 'bring the whole force down'.

Originally posted by LFN69
In this case, who the hell would willfully hide and protect a child abuser?

Whenever this stuff comes to light, it usually involves elaborate networks of blackmail. All that other stuff you mentioned above? Embezzlement, fraud, etc? The stuff that results in ruined careers and possible jail time? People will be complicit in much worse to avoid their own misdeeds being exposed.

Hell, you can use someone's own sex life against them: just look at the Petraeus case. The man went from one of the most powerful players in our government to an early retirement in seconds flat. The public goes bananas over something as commonplace as infidelity, nevermind the more exotic permutations of private sexual behavior. What about the documented cases of intelligence agencies setting up bordello stings to entrap and blackmail their targets?

And look, for that matter, at churches or even families: there are no shortage of people who will hide and protect a child abuser, especially if the stakes are high enough.

If somebody was found to be protecting one, destroying evidence and suchlike,they too would be considered as bad as said abuser and, lets face it, nobody on the face of this Earth would want to be guilty by association let alone be shown to be protecting a Child molester.

Exactly. That is why measures taken to ensure complicity are so effective.

I think that is the salient point now, the abusers really have nowhere to run, no favours to call in and nowhere to go.

That's a very nice story, but I am somehow not comforted.

Originally posted by stargatetravels
reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

 

To be honest this story just had not taken off on ATS at all.
The story should be huge, it's a true conspiracy and involves elites of all description.
There are sites out there with balls, really discussing this.
On another site, one thread is 1500+ pages has 3.5m views, and Christ knows how many posts, truly staggering numbers, ATS is just not the place for this story, really not sure why.

I know why: it's a very British story. ATS is very, Ameri-centric, even for an international forum.

If there'd been a gun law element, something about the constitution, something about 'lying libs', a nostalgic yearning for a Normal Rockwell white picket fence society and a penis measuring contest between America's military and the rest of the world's, then 'organised paedo ring in British government' would have more flags than a Macy's Thanksgiving parade.

Just grease the hands of the top investigators and that will solve everything.

Money buys everything if you are a bilionaire and a mason.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Just grease the hands of the top investigators and that will solve everything.

Money buys everything if you are a bilionaire and a mason.

Ah yes. What would a thread like this be without slagging a group you know nothing about. Good form.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
I've thought about this a lot. It's not just ATS: this isn't really being discussed anywhere that I can tell, and it seems to be due to user avoidance of the topic, rather than the subject being obscured or buried.

Even the grimmest conspiracies have some kind of "plot hook", an angle that makes them engaging to follow and stimulates debate. As serious as some of those discussions are, the participants are mostly there because they enjoy the conversation. There is usually also some degree of the fantastic that allows for emotional distance. But this?

The idea that the abuse of children has been systematized within the institutions charged with protecting and governing us? Most of us have a very hard time even coming to grips with the sex offender down the block, let alone something as staggering in its implications as this.

The topic is avoided, therefore, because it induces real fear and disgust in virtually everyone, even the most cynical and callous. There is no reward in examining it. There is nothing but horror and helplessness. We'd rather just let our eyes slide right past the subject than have to feel that way. I doubt it's even a voluntary thing.

The monsters responsible know that this is the common reaction, and use it. No need to expend much effort in the cover-up when the public would rather be looking elsewhere anyway.

.


Absolutely spot on with that, great post.
They rely on people's disgust and natural instinct to avoid these kinds of things.
As I said, there is a HUGE thread online about this topic, one of the biggest, fastest moving and brilliant threads I've seen online about this or any other topic.

I think Merriam weir is also correct when they mention how Ameri-centric this website is and how there's not enough explosions in the thread to lure most in, but I think you've summed it up nicely.

Thanks

Probably true, this is a MUST WATCH documentary:

The Conspiracy of Silence, a documentary done by the Discovery Channel was banned and never aired.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
In November a witness to longterm abuse in a Welsh care home, Steve Messham, was the victim of character assasinations in the press when he spoke out and a certain Tory MP that WAS investigated in the 90's about abuse was the one getting the apologies and compensation.

Right, nice one for posting this thread, but lets clear things up a bit, shall we?

First off, Steven Messham wasn't "character assassinated" at all. He, in conjunction with Newsnight, made a false allegation which he later retracted and which caused great problems for the BBC and was slanderous against an individual who had nothing to do with the the Wrexham Care home abuse.

Secondly, Lord McAlpine was exonirated as part of that original inquiry, you are mistaken.

If we're going to discuss something as potentially serious and widespread as this network of freaks, lets at least try to be accurate and not repeat the garbage that landed much better investigators than us in hot water.

Originally posted by stargatetravels
They also have secret courts, they edit statements, they stop victims from naming certain people and, as far as I'm aware, children in care are actually NOT allowed to accuse someone of abuse and their testimony is not permissible... Something jack straw introduced, although I'm not entirely clear of exactly the rule/ban, perhaps someone can correct/help me?

Secret courts? Explain...

How exactly are victims stopped from naming victims? If you're talking about names being redacted from the reports, that is because doing so with pending prosecutions could have jeopardised any trial or because evidence was lacking for a prosecution, hence naming them would have been libellous. However, over 200 people were named in the Waterhouse report.

And no, children in care are not banned from accusing people of abusing them. Such a thing is total bollocks.

If you want to read the inquiry into the Wales sex abuse scandal, you can. It's called the Waterhouse Report and makes dozens of recommendations into trying to stop abuse and make it easier for those being abused to speak out.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
Just thought I'd let ATS know that Operation fairbank is investigating UK Mp's and getting no mention in the British press.

Hang on.... You're making out like it's being hidden and getting "no mention in the press", but you link an story to the UK paper, The Independent? I've just read the story on the BBC myself.

Anyone would think you have an agenda and are trying to spin this, somehow.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
I agree with you about the celeb that wasn't charged or named. It's just possible he was innocent and the police have an agenda to make an example of well known entertainers at the moment.

The only agenda the Police would have is the fact they are obliged to investigate all allegations made to them. The fact someone is arrested is in no way indicative of them actually committing a crime or being guilty of anything. Thinking otherwise is dangerous and subverts the whole judicial process.

And I always thought the pedophilia Illuminati theories were so ludicrous...

the sad thing is that when you are not raised in a stable, usually 2 parent, family environment, your chances of abuse are massively increased whether you are in a care home, in a house subject to alcohol/drug abuse where various different "uncles" are on the scene etc....

Now I know that people can and do abuse their own kids, but thankfully (whether it is natural inbuilt instinct or God given) we tend to view our own offspring as the most precious things to be protected.

In the worse case we have the kids in care homes, kids removed from any parental protection, such kids could realistically disappear and no one would be any the wiser as to what happened to the- nobody to investigate, probe etc, enquire as to their well being

Compare the number of kids in care in the 60s,70s with now- I am convinced that the levels of abuse which go on now trump anything back then

Originally posted by Illuminaughty8
And I always thought the pedophilia Illuminati theories were so ludicrous...

Good point.

In fact, let's look at that: if you wanted to discredit the idea of institutionally protected pedophilia, you could do a lot worse than spreading a bunch of ridiculous stories about freemasons and illuminati and even evil clowns. It gives a public already resistant to the idea a good reason to dismiss the credible accounts they would rather not believe to be true.

reply to post by DrHammondStoat


Reminds me of 'Conspiracy of Silence'here in the US.... I believe there is an underground pedo ring like this video puts it out there..

I see someone beat me to it...

Originally posted by Druscilla
S + F !

This is wonderful.
It'll be nice to see people who used their status and privilege to escape justice run through the mud at the very least, and hopefully finding themselves up on some charges they can't wriggle out of.

I suspect some might take the opportunity to settle their affairs in private by taking their own lives as opposed to allowing themselves to be held accountable where they felt above the law.

Very interesting.
I recall a video out recently of a woman describing how she was fondled on the telly as millions watched by a prominent TV celebrity of the time many years ago when she was 16 and on the show with several other youth, but was told to sod off when she attempted complaint to TV producers and people in authority.

Anyone recall that?
Edit: Here's the Thread on ATS: Millions watched as Jimmy Saville molested me

edit on 13-12-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Yeah it was on "top of the pops". I grew up in the seventies, so im at an age to remember this. These radio 1 DJ's and bbc youth tv presenters were like absolute Gods then. Imagine Simon Cowell but on a smaller less international scale

As horrible as these potential crimes are i fear this is being exploited by the press at a time of great need for the press industry after the Leveson Inquiry.

Ask yourselves, could the 'press' really have known nothing about these crimes until now?

It's already been sown that these crimes were widely known of but ignored by the BBC - in denial or protecting their interests, we don't know which.

So why now...?

Why are these stories being run, witness finally being heard, now?

Could it be the press industry fighting back after the Government and the TV industry put them in the stocks with Leveson. Are the press showing TPTB that it's still has has and will not be castrated by Leveson?

If so, and IMO the evidence points this way, then a whole industry kept quiet on these crimes - media czars & moguls kept a tight grip on this info....

Makes you wonder...what else are they not telling us. We assume that some secrets are too big to be quiet, so can't can't be true, but this was and is fast becoming a very big secret that was kept quiet - a ace up the sleeve for a rainy day and right now it's pissing down on the press.