F-35

Both the F/A-22 and F-35 will soon be replaced by Robotic Aircraft with flight abilities that are far and above any Manned Aircraft.

The USAF has a directive to have a large percentage of it's aircraft be Robotic by the end of this decade.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Both the F/A-22 and F-35 will soon be replaced by Robotic Aircraft with flight abilities that are far and above any Manned Aircraft.

The USAF has a directive to have a large percentage of it's aircraft be Robotic by the end of this decade.

Split Infinity

Yea, great, can't wait. Let us take the whole damn mess and turn it into a computer game.

The whole thing is designed to ensure that returning body bags and the National grief that this causes does not happen. People can go about their normal daily lives not understanding the carnage being dealt to others in their name.

What a wonderful road we are on.

It makes me want to cry out in utter frustration at the inhumanity of it all.

Soon the only defense anyone will have will be WMD.

We do not need F35s. We need education, mental health services and a Justice System that puts politicians in jail.

It is a dark road, and all some of you can see is "At least the F35s have some nifty features... And they look cool."

May God have mercy on us all.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


Until you can convince every one else to get rid of their weapons, and to get along, you're going to have to have weapons. While it would be great to spend the money on healthcare, and education, and space exploration, and non-military things, realistically, we need the military, and we need a well equipped military.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by pheonix358

 

Until you can convince every one else to get rid of their weapons, and to get along, you're going to have to have weapons. While it would be great to spend the money on healthcare, and education, and space exploration, and non-military things, realistically, we need the military, and we need a well equipped military.

The US already has more of everything that is better than anybody else. WTF do you need more, except to keep profits for the military industrialists.

$100M for 1 aircraft is utter madness. 7-10 times that over its lifetime is a criminal waste. But I understand, from your perspective you want the latest and greatest cause, hell, they look good.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


I don't just want the latest and greatest, I want something that is going to let the pilots survive. Defensive systems are constantly evolving, and the current weapons are aging. What was amazing in the 70s and early 80s, and state of the art then, will barely survive in a true war situation, against a first world foe. So the weapons that we have have to evolve to meet, or be better than the defensive systems. Then the defensive systems evolve, so the weapons have to evolve.

And you don't know a damn thing about me, so don't sit there and say I just want something because "it looks good" or "it's cool". Just because I'm apparently not as evolved as you are (and actually study weaponry, instead of wanting to get rid of it), doesn't mean you can sit there and say what you want about me and judge me.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Why shouldn't I! Have you ever looked at your society. What, you can't look and see where this money could be better spent saving masses of civilian lives, year after year!

Let's spend it on the most expensive weapons possible.

No thank you!

P

reply to post by pheonix358


And again, as long as everyone else has weapons, we need to have them to. And as long as everyone else is developing bigger and better weapons, we're going to have to as well. I'm sorry that the rest of the world doesn't just say "Holy crap! We should all just get along!" and give out flowers instead of building guns, but they don't. So we are just developing systems that will allow people to survive if there is another major war. Just like every other country is doing at the same time.

reply to post by Zaphod58


The US is not responding to other countries, your leading the bloody charge! Everyone else is playing catch up. The latest round started with the need to take out Terrorists living in caves. F35 will come in real handy for taking on third world countries.

You won't go to war with first rate players because of the MAD principal.

The US causes the arms race.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


The F-22, and the F-35 were under development prior to 9/11, and have nothing to do with "taking out terrorists living in caves". They were developed because the previous generation of aircraft are old. And other countries have aircraft that can defeat them, along with missiles that can defeat them.

But you're right, if the US just stops building weapons, the rest of the world will too.

reply to post by pheonix358


The day that the World becomes a safe place to live in is the day we will not need such weapons. Unfortunately that day is far off.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by pheonix358

 

The F-22, and the F-35 were under development prior to 9/11, and have nothing to do with "taking out terrorists living in caves". They were developed because the previous generation of aircraft are old. And other countries have aircraft that can defeat them, along with missiles that can defeat them.

But you're right, if the US just stops building weapons, the rest of the world will too.

Your dreaming if you thinking China and Russia as well as North Korea will stop building weapons because the US stops.

reply to post by danwild6


No they wont. But. Russia and China respond to what the US is building. Who built the first Nuclear powered Submarine, Nuclear Aircraft Carrier, Stealth fighter, Stealth Bomber, Armed UAV, Stealth ship etc etc bloody etc.

The answer to all those is THE USA.

It is called an Arms Race for a reason.

The future is not golden. The only reason for the current arms race is for the profits of the military industrial complex of THE USA.

As long as people such as yourself simply accept this crap it will go on and on and on until the machine creations wipe us all out probably for profit!.

P

reply to post by danwild6


That was sarcasm. Just because we give up our weapons, doesn't mean anyone else will. We might eventually be able to get rid of nuclear weapons, but conventional weapons? Not any time soon.

reply to post by pheonix358


And you think that the Soviets waited until Nautilus was cruising around before they built a nuclear submarine? Think again.

July of 1951 the US Navy authorized the design and construction of Nautilus.

The November class Soviet sub (their first nuclear submarine) started designing in 1952.

The Nautilus was built faster, but the Soviets were right there with the Americans when it came to initial designs.

As for the stealth fighter, do you realize that if it wasn't for the Soviets it never could have been built? The design was based on a mathematical formula from the Soviet Union that allowed them to model the facet design that was used on the F-117. The Soviets chose to build conventional fighters in larger numbers, instead of a small handful of really stealthy aircraft. They allowed the formula to be published, and Lockheed Martin got their hands on it and ran with it. There was talk of a stealth fighter prior to them getting the paper that had the formula on it, but they had no way to truly design one until afterwards.

The Soviet military hasn't been chasing the American military, they have been following their own philosophy when it comes to warfare. That is one of quantity over quality. It's easier to build a larger force that doesn't have the quality of the smaller force than it is to build a small force of really good equipment. This was the right choice for them, and they have led the US in many fields when it comes to the military.

The US may have the highest spending on defense of anyone else, but that doesn't mean everyone is chasing them in every field, or that other countries aren't capable of producing equipment that is better than some of the same equipment the US has. Or that the US is driving the production of this equipment.

The F-35 is a shining example of the manufacturer promising something that they weren't ready to deliver.

They promised a conventional aircraft with stealth capabilities to replace the F-16 and A-10 Thunderbolt.
They promised a VTOL aircraft with stealth capabilities to replace the Harrier
They promised a carrier based aircraft with stealth capabilities to replace the F/A-18 Hornet

Then they went one step further to promise a helmet display to completely replace the physical heads up display on current aircraft.

All for about $102 million per aircraft. So they thought.

Here we are, 9 years later. 9 years of development and around $5 billion later and the things are finally flying. However, the flyaway cost has more than doubled to around $235 million per aircraft.

But it's still not ready. As of last year, a review board examined the aircraft and had the following discrepencies:

The helmet-mounted display system does not work properly.
The fuel dump subsystem poses a fire hazard.
The Integrated Power Package is unreliable and difficult to service.
The F-35C's arresting hook does not work.
Classified "survivability issues", which have been speculated to be about stealth.
The wing buffet is worse than previously reported.
The airframe is unlikely to last through the required lifespan.
The flight test program has yet to explore the most challenging areas.
The software development is behind schedule.
The aircraft is in danger of going overweight or, for the F-35B, not properly balanced for VTOL operations.
There are multiple thermal management problems. The air conditioner fails to keep the pilot and controls cool enough, the roll posts on the F-35B overheat, and using the afterburner damages the aircraft.
The automated logistics information system is partially developed.
The lightning protection on the F-35 is uncertified, with areas of concern.

cost, schmost, they have plenty of cash for F35's and God knows what else -

reply to post by allenidaho


A number of those problems have been rectified or are in the process of being rectified. And many of them at Lockheed's expense.

The two biggest problems remaining are the helmet, and ALIS. The helmet suffers from latency issues, as well as a green glow around the edges. LM is working with BAE to come up with an interim helmet that's not as advanced, but that can be used until the IAI helmet is complete.

ALIS suffers from the fact that you can gain access to the classified side of things through the unclassified side of things. The Marines have come up with a solution for that problem for now. They simply put a bubble between the two sides, so that they are no longer virtually connected to each other.

The fuel dump had a fix in the first quarter of this year.
The arresting hook has been redesigned and underwent Critical Design Review in 4Q this year. They moved the center of gravity lower, and redesigned the hold down damper.
The flight test program has been moving along nicely, and shipboard testing has been completed with the B model, and the A model has reached 50 degrees AOA as required.
The software has over 24 million lines of code. You're going to have issues, but they are working on fixes to them.
The F-35B has had no problems with hovering or with vertical flight after a few changes to the engine and lift fan system. They cut 3,000lbs from the B model during a design review in 2005.


Most of these problems are from over a year ago, and they have been actively working on fixes for all of them. Just about all of them have been fixed, or are close to having fixes.

The F-35 is just another piece of expensive junk that doesn't work. A huge waste of tax payer money.