Question...Do Bullets Jump Into Guns By Themselves; etc.?

Lately there has been a few different threads about FREE WILL. I decided to try a different approach to this theoretical discussion.

Here is a gun...

Here are some bullets...

How do the bullets get in the gun? ...How did the gun fire a shot? Did the bullets will themselves to just shoot...

Here are some bottles of alcohol...

Here is a mouth (forget the glass)...

How does the alcohol get into the mouth?

It just willed itself to fall out of the bottle into the mouth?

Here is a car...

Here is a drunk...

How did the car start and force the drunk to get in it and drive off?...

Here is a child...

Here is an adult...

Did the child force the adult to abuse them?...

Here is a woman walking down the street minding her own business...

Here is a scumbag looking for trouble...

Did the woman make the scumbag rape her?...

Here is your paycheck...

Here is the casino...

Did the casino force your paycheck to blow itself?

Here is your Free Will...

Here is your mind...

Did your mind force you to use your Free Will to make stupid choices?

You cannot have Free Will if these things happen by themselves.

So which is it? Either you made the choices and the consequences of your actions are for you to own...or they are the fault of you having no Free Will and the blame is on the actions themselves.

What makes more sense?

Feel free to give it your best shot and tell me how these things just happened by themselves. Tell me I am wrong, make me think FREE WILL doesn't exist...everything is preplanned...then explain to me what the heck we are doing here with our souls inhabiting a human vessel? We have no reason to exist if we have no Free Will to make choices or to learn valuable lessons about life.

I left some pictures to imagination and some I felt the need to show, MOD's, I apologize in advance if these violate T&C, I hope they do not...but I understand if changes need to be made. It was not my intention to offend anyone...only to demonstrate consequences of FREE WILL choices.

BAW33

Excellent thread, point well made
2

Say it like it is! ...gotta love that! .....well put!

I have to say in most cases we do have free will but I do believe choices we make can be 'burned' into our neural pathways and make us react on autopilot... secondly there can be "mob mentality" which can make people make choices which can be wrong but they don't know. They see other people doing it so he/she only feels % of the crowd responsible. Lastly there are choices we make because we learned some circumstance like never touch a hot stove so we don't touch it... what if someones parents we're super religious and all they learned growing up was religion? then lets say one day they read a passage that told them to kill someone if they did a certain thing. Well they would react to that given cercumstance. So I have to say not everything is free will.

Edit: I should add that there are psychopaths which could believe something is truely right in their own mind and do whatever it is without hesitation. Sometimes certain parts of their brain doesn't work so is it still free will?

its not me, its the voices in my head

Could I ask a question op. Are you religious, or believe in god?
2

And then there's the zombies... I wonder if they have free will? ...kidding!

reply to post by nyancat


you have a point there, people do grow up like that, its not a rare thing its only rare to those who ignore it.

So what if the situation was a little different, like suppose a child killed another child or a family that was sleeping in their homes. What would people say then? was it free will? or is it because he's just a child he didnt know any better.....so does age matter when you commit a crime? it sure does. Is it free will? most of the time it is either you learn from your mistakes and become a better Human being or you embrace those problems and become the worst of the scums.

maybe psycho's are BORN psycho's.. you cant really change their birth defect, you can try to help but sometimes no matter what we do it just does not help. So how the real question is "Can you really change your decisions with Free will? or are their cases where your brain is so "insane" that you have absolutely no idea how to use Free Will? so who can really help in that situation, it can either be by neural science like drug enhancements, or someone that was totally insane and found the path to sanity somehow, and teach those other insane people how they did it

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


I drink alcohol, but my car hasnt gotten drunk and decided to hit anyone.

I have guns, but they havent loaded their own magazines and shoot anybody.

The car hasnt drank a ton of vodka and automatically started itself. My guns havent loaded themselves and shot anyone..

Neither of those objects forced me to turn the key, or load ammunition.

It's the human element that turns those objects deadly. (I love the Casino to but the Casino dosent kick in my front door and tell me to give it my money....)......and the bad thing is....some people cant handle personal responsibility.....and they end up bringing down others.

Not sure who you've been talking to, but I've never heard anyone blame a car for a DUI, a child for child abuse, or a gun for loading itself.





Guess I just don't get the point of the thread? Sounds more like a response to someone who doesn't take responsibility for their actions. Sure, those people exist - always have, always will.

reply to post by Hawking


The point is, people do these things out of free will, not force by the objects or other people in the case of rape, murder, abuse.

But, that us the crux of the gun debate.


If the car didn't commit the act.....how did the gun?

Originally posted by nyancat
I have to say in most cases we do have free will but I do believe choices we make can be 'burned' into our neural pathways and make us react on autopilot... secondly there can be "mob mentality"

I like your points, but I don't think that any of them take away free will. I am an alcoholic. I'm physically dependent.
I drink on auto pilot. I don't have to think about it, the tab clicked and half the beer gone before the door closes, and I realize fully what the rest of my night or day will consist of.

Still it is my choice to drink. It was my choice to become an alcoholic. Some paths are easier to go down. It's easier for me to keep drinking. Water flows down hill, but where water must always flow down hill, we can climb mountains. I've slept about 3 hours in as many days, but I am not going to blame the alcohol, nor can the alcohol choose to leave.

Free will is more of an aspect of the self when you step back or up one level and look at yourself. When I do this I see my programmed reactions and make plans to thwart them. The more conscious you become the more free will you will have.

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Hawking

 

The point is, people do these things out of free will, not force by the objects or other people in the case of rape, murder, abuse.

But, that us the crux of the gun debate.


If the car didn't commit the act.....how did the gun?

Ohh so this is "Guns don't kill people, people kill people?" Well I absolutely agree. But I also think it should be much harder for nutjobs like James Holmes to order 7,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet or buy high-capacity assault weapons.

Want to make it nearly impossible for people to commit DUI? Then make cars with built-in breathalyzers.



Sure, most of us are responsible car/gun owners but as a society we have to take the stupid and insane in to consideration.

There's a reason all the bottles of cleaning supplies at my hotel have to say "DO NOT DRINK" on them...

reply to post by Hawking


The breathalyzer might be a good idea, but people will always find a way around stop gaps and laws.

Criminals don't care what the laws are, if they want ammo or guns they are going to get them illegally.

And in other news…
Remember, unattended candles can kill….

So remember to keep watch over you homicidal candles!

Be afraid, be very afraid.

reply to post by Mr Tranny


I caught one once out of the corner of my eye, it was scooting itself towards the curtain.

That devil candle got a cold glass of water!

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
How do the bullets get in the gun? ...How did the gun fire a shot? Did the bullets will themselves to just shoot...

(Looks at the box of 1000 22LR to the left of me……)

Awww *snip*, I’m screwed …… Nice knowing ya…….

Originally posted by Mr Tranny

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
How do the bullets get in the gun? ...How did the gun fire a shot? Did the bullets will themselves to just shoot...

(Looks at the box of 1000 22LR to the left of me……)

Awww *snip* I’m screwed …… Nice knowing ya…….

A tranny with a gun?

reply to post by Hawking


Umm…. No, not that type of tranny…

reply to post by nyancat


What a load of crap...just more nonsense from someone eager to rationalize behavior. The mob mentality made me do it...that is what I am talking about right there, the entire planet is filled we people who refuse to accept responsibility for their actions, something else always made them do it.