The world's wasted intelligence.

reply to post by watchitburn

Very simply, people don't agree and until you can image a society where everybody is equally intelligent and capable and income distribution is not exponential, there's no hope.

What we have now, I truly believe, is the BEST we can have given the circumstances. So one flaw I see with your post is the assumption that there's anything wrong at all.

I believe we as a civilization trade security for diversity, but only as much as we can afford to. Too much diversity means no agreement: no civilization. Too much security means no long-term survival. By this I mean by overprotecting ourselves and lacking diversity we lack the ability to adapt.

I believe the "problems" you point to are not problems at all, but in fact symptoms of the traits of our universe expressing themselves in the habits and behaviors of its life-forms.

You're being too partisan. Step back and swallow your pride.

Not long ago I would have agreed with you. I was convinced humanity was suicidal. We were destroying our planet and massacring its life. Eventually I just came to accept that it had always been this way. Change is a constant. People who want the planet to stay the way it's are in for a big disappointment. Very little in this universe is off-limits. Everything dies and transforms. About the only thing that can keep the planet closer to what it was in history is a mass extinction event. The problem is that the knowledge humans have gathered won't die easy, neither will humans. In all likelihood, the history of this planet is history and the planet will transform. In fact, I see the planet like it's a person. All of the cities and roads and artificial structures are like clothes and jewelry and tattoos. Someday, the planet might wear a fancy spacesuit. Or maybe it'll become a cyborg.

I think Arthur C. Clarke says it better than I could. He said he'd gladly be a evolutionary stepping stone to something better, whether that be robots or just simply non-human. He saw something that I think many people don't want to see: the truth. Change. He saw change. You see, ALL of us are products of past extinct life-forms. 99.9% of all life that has ever existed is extinct. We ourselves are not immune to this. In fact, the average species lifespan is 2 million years. We're 2 million years old. Nothing lives forever and there's no evidence God will shield us from this. That's feel-good nonsense. God and other fairy tale things are crutches we use to explain things we don't understand.

We're all going to die, you know. Just do your best. Don't over think this. This life will NEVER be perfect. It changes too much to fit anybody's ideals of perfection. Don't chase phantoms.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by QQXXw
You are confusing true intelligence with the appearance of intelligence.

Truly intelligent people are not drug addicts, don't care about social pressure, go against the tide, are not stuck in dead end jobs - these are the intelligent people. They can see what others miss. True intelligence is rare.

There are plenty of physics graduates who are working in retail - They are NOT intelligent. let me repeat it again, those physics grads that are working in low skill service jobs are NOT intelligent. They are not able to out think the rest of society, that is why they do those jobs. They got a fancy degree, but they did not learn to think, same applies for any other education, STEM or otherwise.

Intelligence is seldom wasted, but is widely mis-identified.

Well, I don't know about all that. But I DO know that a truly intelligent person would not employ the logical fallacy of "No True Scotsman".

But to each his/her own.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

and by the way, you just contradicted your own self with your second sentence.

reply to post by QQXXw



Ill take your word for it, but my apologies if it hurt too bad. But I do note that there was enough pain to elicit a response. A defensive response at that. One that ignores the assertions of the use of logical fallacy entirely to instead focus on a perceived "contradiction".

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by QQXXw

 

Ill take your word for it, but my apologies if it hurt too bad. But I do note that there was enough pain to elicit a response. A defensive response at that. One that ignores the assertions of the use of logical fallacy entirely to instead focus on a perceived "contradiction".

edit on 13-12-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

Yet you reply with an even more personal response. Accusing others of what you yourself do again.

Hey there,yes this has been on my mind a lot and often,in the past few years.We have a daughter that is highly intelligent and always in the Top10,usually Top5 for her grade at her high school,with usually distinctions in most of her subjects,excellent at maths too,and she is a lovely child and person,kindhearted,compassionate,funny,decent..but in my country,as happened to so many white children,because of her skin color,she will find it almost impossible to get the bursary(scholarship) she needs,as we just cannot afford university fees for her,and in 3years time,with the cost of living rising all the time,we could afford it even less.She wants to work as veterinary surgeon,paediatrician or marine biologist.But here,ive seen white kids with distinctions in all their final-year subjects refused bursaries so that a black kid who barely scraped through matric,can have a place at university.Just heartbreaking.So to be able to have any career at all-she'll have to give up on her dream of service to humans or animals/nature..and be trained in the goldmining sector,at least the goldmining group my husband works for has a training programme whereby they pay one's fees-if you want to study metallurgy,engineering etc. and then return to work for their group.We are grateful for that,make no mistake.But it'll always just be a job to her,her heart is in healing and service to humankind or animals,or the ocean.She's one of the lucky ones..who will have a chance at Some career,my heart breaks for all the ones Just as smart and wonderful as her,who due to poverty,injustice,racism,etc will always be left behind.She'll do well at her job,as another cog or wheel in the goldmining machine,but as a healer/scientist she would have been Formidable-because thats her passion.

I'd also like to state kind of as a footnote to my previous post that there's a problem with this world we live in, but it's not money or greed or woman or war or those kinds of things. They're just branches of the tree. If you want to get at the heart of it, you have to dig. But I'll just say it without wasting time. You probably know what I'd dig up anyway. Evolution. Evolution! I want to preserve the memories of this world, its history, its people, its creatures, all of the things that have come and gone, but the one thing I do not want to preserve is evolution. Evolution can die, far as I'm concerned. This world is one giant arena filled with death and destruction. It's a prison and its life-forms are forced to kill each other for food. Because of our lacking awareness and finite resources it ensures we're all the more clumsy and unable to understand and yet forced to make hard choices that will one way or another result in the murder or death of another being.

Whoever created this world..... you can go to hell. Since I'm a nice guy, I only mean that figuratively. Stop making worlds! Stop making this sh**! Put down your tools and just stop. It's too much suffering for what???? Memories? Is that what it's about? Intelligence? Is this an IQ factory? Why? Why do you do this?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I get what you're saying, and that makes sense.

But it's not quite what I'm getting at. I'm not talking about a requirement or valuing one person over another. I'm thinking more along the lines of a willingness to participate, and putting some type of structure in place to allow people to work on those problems as they choose.

Ex: Person 1. excels in doing X, but gets paid more for doing Y. So Person 1 does Y. Person 1 is given the opportunity and possibly compensated to do X at his leisure if he chooses.

This can be adjusted to fit almost any situation.

reply to post by jonnywhite


I think we will just have to disagree, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way we operate in this world.
I can agree with you on the change part, it is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not. But we have the tools to direct that change as we see fit.

reply to post by watchitburn


So what we need is a futuristic sorting hat from harry potter?

I agree... Seriously...

reply to post by QQXXw


"I'm rubber and your glue" is, in no ones opinion, a valid debate strategy.

If I was in charge of the world, here's what I'd probably do (in no particular order):
1. reduce world population
2. use the "average" people as free labor in return for a comfortable life
3. make sure only intelligent people were in the decision-making/control/governmental positions
4. institute a eugenics program where intelligence and physical health are the constant goals
5. exterminate the mentally retarded that can't be trained to do some sort of job
6. free education/healthcare for the top few %
7. the whole world for us at their expense until they catch up
8. install a much stricter form of government for the average class that allows for total control over their lives while giving much more freedom to the upper class
9. phase out religion, focus on human advancement

Aside from that, I really don't see the point in trying to serve humanity.

Originally posted by trollz
If I was in charge of the world, here's what I'd probably do (in no particular order):
1. reduce world population
2. use the "average" people as free labor in return for a comfortable life
3. make sure only intelligent people were in the decision-making/control/governmental positions
4. institute a eugenics program where intelligence and physical health are the constant goals
5. exterminate the mentally retarded that can't be trained to do some sort of job
6. free education/healthcare for the top few %
7. the whole world for us at their expense until they catch up
8. install a much stricter form of government for the average class that allows for total control over their lives while giving much more freedom to the upper class
9. phase out religion, focus on human advancement

Aside from that, I really don't see the point in trying to serve humanity.

Your plan is so full of ego driven self gratiation that it baffles the mind.

Until I read your signature.

Originally posted by TerrorAlertRed
The elite just want us to be dumb so they can control us.

Also, for every 1,000 smart people, there is only 1 job.....especially in America.

i just looked this up the other day....there are approx. 70,000 4-year college graduates every year working in minimum wage or close to minimum wage jobs. people here in the US are being fed a load of crap about how "businesses don't have an educated work force to choose from", which i constantly hear from the media.
they simply don't want to pay them, so they will work their present employees overtime, nights, weekends, double-shifts, anything to keep from raising their own labor costs. and at the same time they say, that they have to set up in foreign countries because that's where the educated workforce is located....what a bunch of crap.

reply to post by watchitburn


I feel much as you do. I sometimes wonder how many brilliant people are out there that just don't know their full potential.

I have been trying to square things off in my life for the last year so as to make a radical change. I have a wife and daughter to care for so I won't be just going off and making things hard on them for no reason. I have to do things correctly and with some measure of logic.

I want to join the military. I want to get into combat and intelligence. I know what I am doing now is fine and all, I am really good at it, but it is not my calling.

I know I would be good at anything I do, since I am a very intense person when it comes to my interests. I know I can make a difference. I want to stop living for me and start sacrificing for others. The way I see it, the profession of arms is something I would be good at, that I have a calling for, and that I can use to improve the world.

I think you are over reaching for answers.
The big reason we don' achieve our greatest potential is....

women and children

They suck the life out of you.
You want a woman for obvious reasons. But to get that you have to accept limitations on your life. Then they want children (sometimes you too). That nails one foot to the floor because you have to maintain a certain level of income. You can't just up and move.
So most men live a life of quiet desperation. Sucking it up and eating the crap the world throws at them. Just to put money in the checking account.

Then we die early.

Most of the people causing the destruction of the environment are the intelligent people. The creators of the chemicals and designers of the polluting machinery are not the unintelligent. Well, that is kind of debatable I guess, an intelligent person would know not to create things that destroy the earth's ability to fend for us.

So why does a super intelligent person have to go work for science. Why can't he choose how he wants to live his life. Hiding the fact that you are intelligent might be beneficial since it can give you opportunity to learn many things in life. I read that the smartest person in the world may be a bouncer at a bar. What is wrong with that, are we going to force this guy to do something he has no interest in. There are a lot of reasons that super intelligent people do not want to join the scientific community. To me discussing the same kind of things with the same people over and over would be a nightmare job. I guess I just like being a jack of all trades master of all myself.

reply to post by rickymouse

a super intelligent person. Why can't he choose how he wants to live his life. Hiding the fact that you are intelligent might be beneficial since it can give you opportunity to learn many things in life.

they dont (mostly) because then they live a lie. You must do what is natural to you.

EDIT:
It is not as easy (or fun) as it sounds, even for a smart person, to hide the fact that he can run circles around everyone in his little world.

reply to post by watchitburn

But why is there no effort to utilize our collective brain power to solving all the issues that are plaguing our species? Just imagine what could be accomplished if this were to happen. Yes some school districts try to identify very bright students early, but that's small potatoes.

So, what do you think ATS?
Why is this so, and how might we correct this global negligence?

Before I continue lets get on the same page.

Intelligence has been defined in many different ways including, but not limited to, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, reasoning, learning, having emotional knowledge, retaining, planning, and problem solving.

en.wikipedia.org...

in·tel·li·gence
[in-tel-i-juh ns] Show IPA
noun
1.
capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2.
manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3.
the faculty of understanding.
4.
knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5.
the gathering or distribution of information, especially secret information.

dictionary.reference.com...

But why is there no effort to utilize our collective brain power to solving all the issues that are plaguing our species?

Im not so certain this is the case. With the internet today humanity has the chance to communicate on a greater scale than ever seen in the past. Was this a planned "avenue" of communication, or just a haphazard benefit, remains to be seen.

But, to address your observation of a lack of structure to reap the benefit from intellectuals, I understand there are organizations now that attempt to unite the gifted. As I do not qualify to be a member of these organizations (due to low admittance score) I am not qualified to debate or judge said organizations. When it comes to intelligence, honesty, can only go so far. So, I would say, yes, there are on going efforts in this area.

Why is this so, and how might we correct this global negligence?

To paraphrase a TV commercial " You can learn a lot, from a dummy".

The truly gifted individual must start at the beginning of our species story before one can answer the "Why is this so" question. And believe me, this area is one of the most heated debate areas we face. Again, we, as a species can never know with any certainty, where we are headed as long as our origins are shrouded in secrecy and denial. We must know our ancient past and overcome our self induced amnesia.

and how might we correct this global negligence?

Contrary to popular belief, all intellectuals are not created equally. Some like the high road, and some like the low road, some fame and fortune, and others seclusion and anonymity. Some can spell whiles others struggle, ask any doctor of your choice. And, some can be tested while others can not. It is the nature of humanity to be unique individuals, something the system presently we find ourselves living in, condemns. And why is this so? It is in this way that the truly gifted will not be recognized or their points considered, and to be assigned irrelevance. I have known some very intelligent people who by virtue of not being born into the "proper" bloodlines to be cast away, for no other reason. What a waist, sin, against humanity.

Some individuals are even expelled for the truth of it

aptitude in grasping truths

Yes, intellectuals will see truths others do not, and for this, they are expunged and expelled from real and honest debate. How can we attack the real enemies of humanity such as induced ignorance and mind control when these enemies are not recognized as a reality?

But in saying all this, the greatest intellectuals, no matter their station in life, can and are mislead by incomplete information, and or misplaced assumptions, and false facts. It is not their fault their own minds are being used against themselves, and humanity. Just as with the logic of the computer "Garbage in, Garbage out". I myself, must concede this point.

I am quite aware of "Other" intelligences at work within humanity. These too must be considered as to their true motives and what expectations they have. What place do they hold, and what place "Should" they hold. I see it as a football game and both teams bring in "ringers" to assist their own team. It then becomes a game that no longer belongs to the rightful participants.

I agree that every one of us has something to bring to the table, but as you painfully have pointed out, its a non existent table. The Internet of intelligence, can only go so far....................

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


If the military is what you want to do, then go for it. But make sure you look into it thoroughly before committing. Many people find that the military is not what they expected it to be. You should also know that many brilliant people are wasted in the military, You will arbitrarily be placed where ever it is decided you should go. Based on nothing but manpower needs and checks in boxes.

I have been in the military for 12 years now, and I can tell you that the rest of the planet has not benefited from much the armed forces have ever done.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


I can accept the standard you put forth on the definition of intelligence.

I can also understand your point of view on humanity's lost history.
Consider that modern academia believes we have recently developed our civilizations over the past ten thousand or so years. But then the say modern man has been in his current form for about 400 thousand years. Then look at the rates of the ice ages waxing and waning. This leaves the opportunity for at least 30 or so of our civilizations to have come and gone.
It certainly makes one think, No?

As for the "other intelligences" I personally have no experience with anything of this nature, not that I am aware of anyway. But that is not sufficient to disregard it.
Anything is possible after all. And I don't throw that saying around willy nilly. I have seen some stuff I had not previously believed could happen. I firmly believe that anything is possible.

I do agree that things are not as they should be. And logic is the best course of action in unraveling this dirty tapestry.
I'm willing to play the game.