UFO Skeptic Pilot Witnesses UFO Near Aircraft.

Originally posted by Thunda

I really dont see how you reached that conclusion based on the OP. Hull was indeed 'interested' in the subject of UFO's, but from the point of view of a skeptic- a published one at that. If you read the post it says "author of anti-UFO skeptical article "The Obituary of the Flying Saucer" in The Airline Pilot magazine (Sept. 1953),"..]

Thanks for the posts and it states in the credit section of this book that Joe Hull's anti-UFO skeptical article was published in the 22nd edition of Men in Motion 'Air Line Pilot' magazine (pages 13 and 14) but haven't been able to locate it online - would certainly be interested to read it though.

It also states in the pdf file below that Captain Hull experienced another UFO sighting one year after the Alabama report which involved radar confirmation from two aircraft - it also goes on to mention how the Condon team stated the two cases 'must be considered as unknowns' and describes the many failings of the Colorado project.

On August 30, 1957, Captain Hull was again piloting a Viscount,this time over the Chesapeake Bay, near Norfolk, Virginia, when he saw a brilliant object that "flew fast and then abruptly halted 20 miles in front of us." Both the Viscount and another aircraft, a DC-6, got radar returns from the UFO. The object, Captain Hull reported, "dissolved right in front of my eyes and the crew.., lost it from the [radar] scope at the same time." The Condon team said "these two cases must be considered as unknowns".

PDF File

Both cases are listed here in Dominic Weinstein's Catalogue of Military,Airliner and Private Pilots Sightings and the NICAP case file for the incident goes into a bit more detail below:

Two Aircraft Observe Object / Excellent Blip On Radar

Aug. 30, 1957

Chesapeake Bay, nr. Norfolk, Virginia

A Capital Airlines pilot with 17 years & 3,000,000 miles logged was flying a Viscount at 12,000' approaching Norfolk, Va., with a Northeast Airlines DC-6 "directly above" on the same heading at 20,000. The Viscount pilot saw a "brilliant" object which "flew fast and then abruptly halted 20 mi. in front of us at 60,000 ft. altitude." The Northeast pilot tried to acquire the object on radar: with the antenna at 0 degrees elevation nothing was detected, but with the antenna elevated to 15 degrees he acquired "an excellent blip right where I told him to look for the object." According to the Viscount pilot, the object "dissolved right in front of my eyes, and the crew above lost it from the scope at the same time. They said it just faded away." The entire incident lasted "several minutes". (NARCAP Report item # 14)

link

Cheers.

Originally posted by Thunda

The original letter, from Hull to the research group 'Civilian Saucer Intelligence' (Who, in contrast to the many amateurish early "flying saucer clubs", CSI actually conducted rigorous investigations of UFO reports.) to CSI President John Du Barry, ends with the following statement: "You will remember me as objectively skeptical and cynically critical of most of the purported saucer sightings. But I think you have to believe a veteran airline pilot with 17 years of service, 15,000 hours and 3 million miles in his log-book. I am seeking no publicity. I didn't report this sighting to the press and not a word has ever been printed about it until this moment."

Also found an article below where it states Captain Hull was 'widely known among pilots for his negative views on flying saucers' and mentions that in his anti-UFO article he accepted UFO debunker Dr Donald Menzel's 'natural phenomena' explanation for UFOs - there's also a United Press Staff Correspondent here who describes Captain Hull denouncing flying saucers as 'bunk' .

Document Viewer

Pdf file

This 1962 letter from William B. Nash (Pan American Airways pilot involved in the Fortenberry/Nash UFO case) is also a relevant one as it states Captain Hull was always respected as a man of integrity and was 'mesmerized' by a book by Donald Menzel but it doesn't mention the pilots UFO sightings directly.

I have letters in my possession from Captain W.J. Hull of Capitol Airlines, stating that he had invited you more than once to debate with him on the U.F.O. subject on television or radio. He said you refused. Captain Hull has always been respected as a man of integrity. Incidentally, until he looked deeper into the subject, he had been briefly mesmerized by your book. As the man said, it is well written..

link

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Another skeptical witness describes seeing huge, disc shaped UFO around the same date which 'changed colours and moved with tremendous speed' - the article also states the object was witnessed by three newspaper men who were out hunting.

The Bismarck Tribune; Friday, November 16, 1956.

REDFIELD, S.D. -- A young truck driver who said he "never held any stock in flying saucer stories" told Wednesday of seeing a huge object in the sky that changed colors and moved with tremendous speed..

"If it had been on the ground, it would have covered about a square block. It looked to be about 12 feet thick. It was a slate gray color, and from the distance looked like it was metal. It was round, and at the base was an opening about 1/10th the size of the object from which a very brilliant light was shining.

link

Originally posted by Thunda

Interesting even the Condon report didnt try and tape on some half baked debunk.

Mate, I'm amazed they even included it in the report seeing as they willfully ignored a great many of the other truly puzzling cases (particularly pilot and police UFO incidents).

Summary of a Talk Presented to the Dupont Chapter of The Scientific Research Society of America (RESA), Wilmington, Delaware, Feb. 12, 1969.


The report analyses only about ninety cases, a tiny fraction of the significant and scientifically puzzling UFO reports now on record..


Major discrepancies:

* Condon Did Not Investigate Cases

* Case material ignored

* Use of ridicule

* Kook Cases Get Coverage

* Key Witnessess omitted

* Pilots' Sighting Not Included

* Reports by Police ignored

* Case Material/Significant Data Omitted

* Credible Witnesses Ignored

* Secrecy Denied

Debunking the Condon Report

And to think this was the whitewash that was instrumental in closing down official U.S. UFO investigations.

Originally posted by Thunda

However, in 1956, a commercial pilot could still (just about) get away with a solid UFO report and keep his credibility and job.

Wonder if it happened now if we would even hear about it?

Don't think we would nowadays and apparently there's a very unhealthy climate in pilot circles about UFO/UAP reporting - here are just some of the statements taken from Ted Roe's excellent technical report about 'under reporting bias'.

NARCAP receives reports from pilots and aviation professionals via email and other sources. During one week in the summer of 2001 NARCAP received reports from a number of current and former pilots, the majority of whom were commercial airmen. A review of some of the commentary from these pilots who have seen UAP includes the following:

"We didn't say anything. We figured nobody would believe us."
Charter Pilot


"Upon return to my domicile, JFK, I reported our sighting to the proper authorities. I was shortly visited by two federal investigators who evidently thought I was hallucinating for one of them stated he had seen spaceships while fishing in Great South Bay and was quite obviously trying to prove that I was a loony."
Captain, Pan Am (ret.)


"It must have been Huge! We were all due back at JFK about the same time two days later so I waited in the crew ready room to talk to them. None of them wanted to talk! They were afraid management would take them off of flying status and have them tested for booze and drugs. The story never came out!"
Flight Engineer, TWA (ret.)


"a group of lights in the air appeared at our 12o'clock position. I called departure control and asked them if they had any traffic in that area. When they came back and said NO, what do you see, I said no, just checking. For at that time when a pilot reported seeing a UFO he was in a lot of trouble."
Captain, Ozark Airlines (ret.)


"I, and Flight crew saw something (in broad daylight) that did things that no known aircraft could do without killing any living thing inside. I will only give sketchy details to protect the privacy of the rest of the crew. If you are interested, and all information (is) kept anonymous, contact me. I will not present myself for public ridicule."
Captain, NW (ret.)

Aviation Safety in America: Under-Reporting Bias of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena and Recommended Solutions. Ted Roe

Cheers.

reply to post by bo12au


Bo12au, thanks for listing the entire lyrics to American Pie on a thread about pilots witnessing a UFO.

Have you any idea what the object was?

reply to post by bo12au


Cant work out whether you are trying to derail the thread, or you are really just ignorant- either way, thats a really good way to get your post deleted.....

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by karl 12

 

I captured this twice about thirty seconds apart. Don't believe me? download the file from 4shared called "white object blue sky" and watch it on a large screen tv. file sharing there are a few youtube videos that show the dancing behavior

this is a good one

edit on 11-12-2012 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)

Seagulls maybe (or maybe some other white bird)? It's possible the sun is shining above that fog layer, and the birds are being sunlit.

There has been a massive increase in UFO sitings, but has anyone considered these may be some sort of spy drones?

that the government might be designing ufo style drones so that we do not suspect them. it is possible

UFO sitings 2013

Originally posted by AprenticeofLight

There has been a massive increase in UFO sitings

AprenticeofLight, who has said there's been a 'massive increase in UFO sightings'?

Originally posted by AprenticeofLight

but has anyone considered these may be some sort of spy drones?

Sure 'some sort of spy drone' may be responsible for some recent UFO sightings but this case involving an object performing unprecedented flight characteristics such as undulating motion, instant 90° turns, lazy 8's and square chandelles occurred way back in 1956 so where does that leave us?

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

some example footage might be helpful in making your case.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

some example footage might be helpful in making your case.

I don't have a specific video that shows the same sort of situation you filmed. I'm just saying that from my experience of having seen gulls or other bird lazily circle around, it seems to me that your video could be gulls (or a similar type of bird) -- possibly being lit by the sun which could be shining above the fog layer.

Like I said, I don't have an example of a video that matches yours specifically, but below is a video of birds lazily circling and being lit up by artificial light.

I think the birds in this video move very similarly to the objects in your video -- not the close-ups of the birds in the below video, but rather the far-away shots, such as at the :53 mark and the 2:14 mark, which is at a similar distance as the objects in your video:

Originally posted by Thunda

Listen......Do you hear that?.......

Seems Einstein wasn't bothered either mate.

"These people have seen something - What it is I do not know and am not curious to know".

Albert Einstein, Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton, New Jersey (reply letter to Californian Minister, July 23rd, 1952).

link

Very similar case from 3 years earlier where 'UFO sceptical' pilot (Flight Lieutenant Cyril George Townsend-Withers) tracked on radar and nearly collided with a UFO:

For half a minute they were on a collision course with the unknown, swiftly trying to calculate what to do next. In those seconds they had a very clear view. They could see that the object was completely unlike anything which they had ever encountered before. It was round, like a thin disc, but with two small tailfins at the rear. It seemed to be metallic and enormous, and it was simply sitting there waiting for them to fly right into it.

During the decision about evasive tactics to get out of its way the UFO suddenly made this irrelevant. It flipped vertically into the air and climbed upwards at an astonishing rate. 'Fifty, sixty, seventy thousand feet - as quick as you could say it.' Leaving no vapour trail, wake or detectable sound, the thing vanished within just a couple of seconds way into the blue.

Of course, the two RAF men knew that they had encountered something utterly fantastic. In 1986 Townsend-Withers was still describing it as 'a reconnaissance device from somewhere else - that is all I could say about it.' No earth-bound aircraft looked like it, behaved like it or could reach such a height. They knew that some sort of official report was essential, but who would believe them? They had heard tell of flying saucers' - garbled stories carried by the media. The assumption was to treat these as an American craziness, something 'Yanks' were seeing but nobody else. Certainly not conservative, stiff-upper-lip British airmen.

Canberra Crew Encounters UFO / Radar/Visual

karl 12

Just after this exchange, the object began to maneuver. It darted hither and yon, rising and falling in undulating flight, making sharper turns than any known aircraft, sometimes changing direction 90 degrees in an instant. All the while the color remained constant, a brilliant blue-white, and the object did not grow or lessen in size. Macintosh and I sat there completely flabbergasted at this unnerving exhibition.

Suppose it could have been a plasma critter.

Plasma life forms


Does anyone else have any other opinions as to what the object was?

Great article from Professor Michael Swords which mentions the 1957 Captain Hull case and also deals with other unexplained incidents and UFO apathy/willful ignorance.

WANDERING IN THE WAKE OF THE UFOS

Link

originally posted by: karl 12


Thanks for the posts and it states in the credit section of this book that Joe Hull's anti-UFO skeptical article was published in the 22nd edition of Men in Motion 'Air Line Pilot' magazine (pages 13 and 14) but haven't been able to locate it online - would certainly be interested to read it though.

Here we go.

September 1953

The Air Line Pilot Magazine

Men In Motion Header

OBITUARY OF THE FLYING SAUCERS

By Capt. Joe Hull

link

IDK. If he was into ufos enough to write a skeptical article about them.. maybe he was just setting himself up for a "change of heart" ... being dramatic for attention

originally posted by: rakleMeister

IDK. If he was into ufos enough to write a skeptical article about them.. maybe he was just setting himself up for a "change of heart" ... being dramatic for attention

RakleMeister, maybe you're right - who knows?

Found it interesting that the Condon Committee conceded the incident to be 'unexplainable' though and it's certainly a very interesting description from both pilots.