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As for your list? "Al Qaeda", "Arab-Israeli Wars", "Vietnam", these are religious conflicts? Are you kidding me?
1850
Viet rulers persecute Catholics and priests, inciting French military intervention.
1859
France captures Saigon, extends control to Laos and Cambodia, forming French Indochina.
1880
France divides up Vietnam into three regions: Tonkin, Annam, Cochin China. French use water management to open new agricultural land in Mekong Delta.
. During Nguyễn Ánh's subsequent rule as Emperor Gia Long, the Catholic faith was permitted unimpeded missionary activities out of his respect to his benefactors.[33] By the time of the Emperor's accession in 1802, Vietnam had 3 Catholic dioceses with 320,000 members and over 120 Vietnamese priests.[34]
According to the Catholic Hierarchy Catalog, there are currently 5,658,000 Catholics in Vietnam, representing 6.87% of the total population.[35]
The findings there are that there were only three major conflicts that were entirely due to religion, and 60% of all conflict have ZERO religious influence.
It is patently obvious that what religion someone was "raised in" has absolutely no bearing on their later behaviour. The vast majority of Americans was "raised as" Christians, but do we see Christ-like behaviour rampant in the United States? Of course not.
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by adjensen
As for your list? "Al Qaeda", "Arab-Israeli Wars", "Vietnam", these are religious conflicts? Are you kidding me?
Arab-Israeli is not Muslim vs. Jew? Wow. Here I thought those were religions...
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by adjensen
The findings there are that there were only three major conflicts that were entirely due to religion, and 60% of all conflict have ZERO religious influence.
It's not just about religious influence, it's about religious acceptance. About people's willingness to get manipulated politically because the enemy is of a different religion. In Islam, they're infidels. In Christianity, they're non-believers.
Religion is a tool for politics.
Muslim Conquests.
Crusades.
30 years war. Protestants and Catholics.
The list continues on forever.
Yet, even in todays system where there is supposed to be separation of church and state, Bush still used god in his war speeches.
Saying that Stalin, Hitler or Castro were Christians simply because their parents were is baseless and ignorant.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth!"
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
Stalin was raised very religious in the Greek Orthodox Church. He was named after Saint Joseph and was raised to be a priest. His father was a priest and young Joseph spent five years in a Greek Orthodox seminary.1
But Stalin’s father beat him mercilessly, and Stalin once described his childhood as having been “raised in a poor priest-ridden household.”1 Perhaps this contributed to his decision to become a Marxist revolutionary.
Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by adjensen
It is patently obvious that what religion someone was "raised in" has absolutely no bearing on their later behaviour. The vast majority of Americans was "raised as" Christians, but do we see Christ-like behaviour rampant in the United States? Of course not.
Ah okay, so upbringing and your life experience during the formative years means absolutely nothing. Thanks for the wisdom. I may as well deprive my children of everything I planned on giving them, sticking to the basic necessities because it costs less. And as you say, their younger years mean nothing...
Um... no it doesn't. The three wars that you've cited are the only ones that the War Audit found were solely caused by religion.
I don't know where you're getting your definition of the First Amendment from, but it restricts Congress from establishing a state religion, or restricting the practice of any faith -- it doesn't say "You must be governed by the irreligious."
Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by boncho
Hitler used religion as a tool of manipulation and was not a practicing Catholic after his childhood. See The Essential Hitler: Speeches and Commentary for the conflict between his public and private comments on religion. It is generally accepted that Hitler and the Nazis in general were occultists, not Christians.
Stalin studied to be a priest? Who cares -- he didn't become one, and if you want to claim that the secular law of the Soviet Union was a result of Christian doctrine, you'd better go find some proof of it.
Originally posted by spinalremain
Just want to add that atheism has not led to atrocities like religion has caused.
The fact that Stalin was an atheist has nothing to do with what he did. He happened to be atheist, but that was not a factor in his murdering people. We can say that moustaches caused atrocities if that were the case. Having two legs caused atrocities.
You don't think that believing one is the highest power in the universe, as the atheist leader of one of the most powerful nations in existence would have, might not have the slightest impact on their decision making? Not at all?
The day that atheism becomes a movement with blind followers that will leap into conflict, is the day that it becomes something with no rational thought, and no better than religion itself.
Atheist Suicide Bomber Kills Eighteen Agnostics
STOCKHOLM -In a frightening display of rising sectarian violence, an atheist suicide bomber blew himself up on a busy street in Stockholm three days ago; killing eighteen agnostics and wounding over thirty. Members of the ‘Swedish Atheistic Liberation Front’ (SALF) have claimed responsibility for the bombing. Declaring the attack as revenge against the explosive agnostic riots, which, last week, hospitalized several atheists and terrorized the atheistic community.
Originally posted by Wildbob77
I was raised in a pretty fundamentalist church. In my time there, I met 1 couple who personified what a christian should be. They were kind and generous. You could almost feel the love that they radiated outward to everyone. They didn't judge.
You don't think that believing one is the highest power in the universe...