The Greko Roman Christian conspiracy

It is my (and many others) contention that the Greko Roman establishment highjacked the Hebrew faith in order to consolidate power. The incorporation of pagan holidays such as Christmas (winter solstace) and easter (celebration of fertility including orgies and other unsavory behavior in the name of pagan goddess ishtar) in order to keep the new forcibly converted pagans happy has in effect created the modern religion of Christianity as a pagan religion.

To add further insult to God the Roman Catholic church by inventing the trinity doctrine (also of pagan origins) has fooled good God loving people into Idolatry by making Jesus a god. Add to that many newly invented doctrines such as the rapture doctrine and what we have is a deceived population.

None of this washes with the old testament which I believe to be mostly accurate. I am not baiting or hating on Christians, I used to be one and it took years of reading researching the bible (using esword for root meanings of poorly translated text) and soul searching for me to come to this conclusion and it was hard and painful for me to lose my religion as I was as devout as one could possibly be. I am a truth seeker who wishes to share the truth that I have found.

Just as Islam has perverted the ancient Hebrew faith so has the roman church. No I am not of the Jewish faith or ethnicity in case you were wondering.

Here is an example of what I am talking about.
resbak.com...

reply to post by begoodbees


Here is an old thread that discusses this topic in great detail. If you have not had the opportunity to come across it yet, I highly recommend checking it out. It is very interesting.

All Roads Lead to Rome

Thank you I will definitely give it a look.

reply to post by begoodbees

You'll find out that I am the most easily confused poster on ATS, so help me out.

It is my (and many others) contention that the Greko Roman establishment highjacked the Hebrew faith in order to consolidate power.

Do you mean they took Judaism and created Christianity, or that they took over Christianity? The difference seems important.

If you think this hijacking took place aound the time of Christ, I'm curious what you meant by consolidating power. By 100 A.D. Rome ruled 1/4 of the population of the world, there weren't any significant threats to them. In 136 they destroyed the Jewish rebellion, forbade Jews from entering Jerusalem, and renamed the city. They were expanding with little interest in consolidating.

in order to keep the new forcibly converted pagans happy has in effect created the modern religion of Christianity as a pagan religion.

I don't understand. If you think Rome forcibly converted people to Christianity, why do we have actual records from 115 A.D. in which an interrogator is asking the Emperor for instructions on killing Christians. A few years before that, Nero was famous for killing thousands of Christians.

Perhaps you think Constantine forcibly converted people to Christianity in the 300's. But who converted him and what was he converted to? Do you think he made up Christianity? Christianity was doing fairly well, albeit persecuted, by the time Constantine came along.

See why I'm confused?

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by begoodbees

 

You'll find out that I am the most easily confused poster on ATS, so help me out.

It is my (and many others) contention that the Greko Roman establishment highjacked the Hebrew faith in order to consolidate power.

Do you mean they took Judaism and created Christianity, or that they took over Christianity? The difference seems important.


I believe they invented Christianity as a way to turn people away from their God/gods.


If you think this hijacking took place aound the time of Christ, I'm curious what you meant by consolidating power. By 100 A.D. Rome ruled 1/4 of the population of the world, there weren't any significant threats to them. In 136 they destroyed the Jewish rebellion, forbade Jews from entering Jerusalem, and renamed the city. They were expanding with little interest in consolidating.


By consolidating the peoples religion the romans removed the main reason people had for rebellion.

in order to keep the new forcibly converted pagans happy has in effect created the modern religion of Christianity as a pagan religion.

I don't understand. If you think Rome forcibly converted people to Christianity, why do we have actual records from 115 A.D. in which an interrogator is asking the Emperor for instructions on killing Christians. A few years before that, Nero was famous for killing thousands of Christians.


I am not sure at what point this happened I am going by memory so my contentions may not be completely accurate.


Perhaps you think Constantine forcibly converted people to Christianity in the 300's. But who converted him and what was he converted to? Do you think he made up Christianity? Christianity was doing fairly well, albeit persecuted, by the time Constantine came along.


Again going by memory it was a son or daughter or some other close relation that converted him but he converted for the reason of one God making it easier to unite the people behind him and stop bickering about whose god was the best. Christianity as far as I can tell was created by paul the roman.


See why I'm confused?


yes I see why you are confused. i must apologize. I was going to wait until tomorrow to post this thread as it is pretty late hear but this being my first thread I though I would give it a go tonight. I will try to go into more detail tomorrow or later today technically. Please feel free to pose more questions or correct me if you see fit.

reply to post by charles1952


Dear charles1952,

How wonderfully you worded your response.

If the OP is to believed, the Romans or Greeks changed the Hebrew bible and the Jews did not notice and accepted the new one because they didn't know any better and trusted the Romans or Greeks. I guess the fact that the Christians and Jews use the same basic Old Testament means nothing. Dear charles1952, it took about 600 years before non-believers even began to claim that Jesus had never existed, the Romans and the Greeks did not claim that he never existed; therefore, according to the OP, the Greeks and Romans must have fooled them all.

Once again, I think your answer was marvelous. Peace.

reply to post by begoodbees

Dear begoodbees,

First, I must thank you for posting the thread. It has more substance than many I've seen from experienced posters.

I'm here to learn from you, so take your time. There's no rush, feel free to get back to it whenever you'd like. I'm looking forward to it.

With respect,
Charles1952

you got it. True and true.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

if you feel like it, would you tell us which post (posts) you saw as true? I think we'd be glad to hear your ideas.

reply to post by begoodbees

Just as Islam has perverted the ancient Hebrew faith...

Absurd.
Islam was a revelation by God to a different people.
Islam perfectly upholds the Oneness of God as taught by the Hebrews faith.

It is Christianity that has utterly perverted the Hebrew faith with its stange concepts of trinity, God becoming a human, of human sin sacrifices etc. Yes, the Romans corrupted Christianity but the corruption started even earlier through Paul and his doctrines.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I'm reluctant to say anything, for it isn't my thread, but may I make a suggestion to you? And it is only a suggestion.

Absurd.
Islam was a revelation by God to a different people.
Islam perfectly upholds the Oneness of God as taught by the Hebrews faith.

This can become a pretty heated thread as it stands. Yes, I know the OP made that statement, but it is hardly important to his point and was only used as a descriptive analogy. Whether it's true or false isn't crucial to his case. Besides, if this becomes a threaad on Islam, we shall never extricate ourselves. My suggestion? Let this go and concentrate on the rest of your post:

Yes, the Romans corrupted Christianity but the corruption started even earlier through Paul and his doctrines.

That's interesting. Did Paul play a part in the Gospels, or were those pretty much "Roman free?" Was Christianity, at one point, uncorrupted?

And, if you'd care to answer some of the questions I posed earlier, I'd be pleased to learn from you.

reply to post by charles1952

This can become a pretty heated thread as it stands. Yes, I know the OP made that statement, but it is hardly important to his point and was only used as a descriptive analogy. Whether it's true or false isn't crucial to his case. Besides, if this becomes a threaad on Islam, we shall never extricate ourselves. My suggestion? Let this go and concentrate on the rest of your post:

Fair enough. I'm not trying to derail this thread, but I just had to address that statement about Islam "perverting" the Hebrew faith.

That's interesting. Did Paul play a part in the Gospels, or were those pretty much "Roman free?" Was Christianity, at one point, uncorrupted?

The problem with Paul is that his own ideas became a part of Christianity.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Dear sk0rpi0n,

The problem with Paul is that his own ideas became a part of Christianity.

Ok, I can see that argument. If Paul is wrong, then at least part, if not all, of Christianity is wrong. But I'm still curious. Were the Gospels also wrong for some reason? If they were fundamentally false, then of course Christianity must be abandoned.

If the Gospels are true, and Paul is false, Christianity survives, but with changes around the edges.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

Were the Gospels also wrong for some reason? If they were fundamentally false, then of course Christianity must be abandoned.

The problems with the gospels is that Jesus or his disciples did not author the gospels. Rather, some unknown writers compiled the story of Jesus many years later. This increased the chances of mistakes and half-truths becoming part of the record... and as a result, the Gospels are a mixture of truths, half-truths and fabrications.

Take for example, Jesus praying in the garden before his arrest. The account reads that all his companions were fast asleep. So then, who exactly heard what Jesus was praying about that it became part of the biblical account?

Take another example. during Jesus' temptation in the desert, the only people present were Jesus and Satan... yet we have a third person account of their conversation. Who witnessed it? Did Jesus tell somebody about his encounter with Satan?

Originally posted by begoodbees
It is my (and many others) contention that the Greko Roman establishment highjacked the Hebrew faith in order to consolidate power. The incorporation of pagan holidays such as Christmas (winter solstace) and easter (celebration of fertility including orgies and other unsavory behavior in the name of pagan goddess ishtar) in order to keep the new forcibly converted pagans happy has in effect created the modern religion of Christianity as a pagan religion.

You appear to be combining two different charges 1) that Rome/Greece created the whole belief of Christ and/or 2) that Greece/Rome hijacked the whole belief in Christ. Can you clarify your position please? Daniel, in the Old Testament makes it clear that the 'world' was given to the King of Babylon and his empire which spans these Ages. This Babylon encompasses four succeeding rules... First Babylon, then Medes-Persia, then Greece and most agree Rome as the fourth. During this latter rule Our God would set up HIS Kingdom - ruled by Jesus. All of Israel were led away into captivity of Babylon and it has only been Christ Jesus that removes us out of this captivity into His Kingdom.

To add further insult to God the Roman Catholic church by inventing the trinity doctrine (also of pagan origins) has fooled good God loving people into Idolatry by making Jesus a god. Add to that many newly invented doctrines such as the rapture doctrine and what we have is a deceived population.

The meaning of the names Adam to Noah tell us what we need to know "Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring (the) despairing comfort and rest". Who came down teaching? Who does the God of Abraham state will effect His salvation? His mighty arm and hand. Who are they? "I and the father are one"..."Our God is One".....The Old Testament makes clear that Our God is One. The scripture makes clear that it is God that saves, and it makes clear that God would come down teaching....and that yet Jesus came in the flesh. The Roman Catholic church also teaches it's adherants to repetively pray the rosary and "hail Mary's", both completely against scripture, but what does that have to do with your rejection of the Truth, Christ? Nothing. Do you not understand that His believers must come to love Truth above all else, in which case they would reject that man-made dogma?

None of this washes with the old testament which I believe to be mostly accurate. I am not baiting or hating on Christians, I used to be one and it took years of reading researching the bible (using esword for root meanings of poorly translated text) and soul searching for me to come to this conclusion and it was hard and painful for me to lose my religion as I was as devout as one could possibly be. I am a truth seeker who wishes to share the truth that I have found.

Wait, you will no longer believe because some man-made church, run by men, incorporate pagan practices and rituals into the faith of Christ, which IS THE OLD TESTAMENT? Do you really think I as a Christian am subject to what the Catholic Church has declared? Truly? Did not Jesus say "Follow Me"? So this argument of yours makes no sense whatsoever. You are commanded a very tough role in Christ, to always speak His Truth in a world hostile to His Name. And yet, you fell because many churches chose their own dogma over Christ......that's like those whom blame and reject Paul for the lawless behaviour of many Christians, when he himself preached no such thing.

Just as Islam has perverted the ancient Hebrew faith so has the roman church. No I am not of the Jewish faith or ethnicity in case you were wondering.

Of course it has, but again, what does it have to do with your supposed denunciation of Jesus? You live in Babylon, still captive to it's ruler who places himself above God. When Jesus sets you free, you finally start to see Babylon for what it is - a pitiful system that rejects it's Creator and holds it's captives prisoner in a web of lies and deceit. Instead of recognising that false Christianity thrives in this Babylon, you appear to have not realised this and therefore reject Christ based on nothing more than falsehood. It's like denying Christ exists because Satan told you so......

reply to post by WhoKnows100


The whole story of the life of Jesus in the new testament is just regurgitated mythology from Egypt and many other pagan cultures. The Hebrew faith was highjacked by the writing and spreading of these pagan myths as the work of the Hebrew God.

near-death.com...

www.youtube.com...

Please correct me if I am wrong.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

Yeah sorry about that. The OP. hit the nail on the head.

I am a former Catholic, was very devout, went to Catholic school my whole life, even started out in a Catholic university my first semester. I studied it in depth, had excellent teachers, I love history, went to traditional latin masses, did my daily prayers, rosary, confession ect... and all that culminated in me coming to the same conclusions as the OP.

OT prophecy of messiah: will return the people to the law. Jesus threw out the law. In fact the NT is quite incoherent. In one breath he says he does not want to abolish the law and in a different breath he says to ignore it. Do you know any Christians who practice the laws brought down by Moses? I don't. Where there is contradiction the hand of man is at work not the hand of God.

Who wants you to pay taxes and turn the other cheek when assaulted and oppressed? Not God, the governing bodies is the correct answer. Jesus says to obey the laws of the land, the laws of the land more often than not will contradict the laws of God.

OT says that any man bringing forth any doctrine other than this one shall be put to death and guess what happened to Jesus.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Originally posted by begoodbees
It is my (and many others) contention that the Greko Roman establishment highjacked the Hebrew faith in order to consolidate power. The incorporation of pagan holidays such as Christmas (winter solstace) and easter (celebration of fertility including orgies and other unsavory behavior in the name of pagan goddess ishtar) in order to keep the new forcibly converted pagans happy has in effect created the modern religion of Christianity as a pagan religion.

You appear to be combining two different charges 1) that Rome/Greece created the whole belief of Christ and/or 2) that Greece/Rome hijacked the whole belief in Christ. Can you clarify your position please? Daniel, in the Old Testament makes it clear that the 'world' was given to the King of Babylon and his empire which spans these Ages. This Babylon encompasses four succeeding rules... First Babylon, then Medes-Persia, then Greece and most agree Rome as the fourth. During this latter rule Our God would set up HIS Kingdom - ruled by Jesus. All of Israel were led away into captivity of Babylon and it has only been Christ Jesus that removes us out of this captivity into His Kingdom.

I would like to know what versus you are speaking of regarding Babylon and the 4 that follow as all being part of Babylon, this does not sound familiar to me. The statue spoken of in Daniel portrays 4 different empires Babylon being the first one but I have never hear of them all being part of Babylon.

To add further insult to God the Roman Catholic church by inventing the trinity doctrine (also of pagan origins) has fooled good God loving people into Idolatry by making Jesus a god. Add to that many newly invented doctrines such as the rapture doctrine and what we have is a deceived population.

The meaning of the names Adam to Noah tell us what we need to know "Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring (the) despairing comfort and rest". Who came down teaching? Who does the God of Abraham state will effect His salvation? His mighty arm and hand. Who are they? "I and the father are one"..."Our God is One".....The Old Testament makes clear that Our God is One. The scripture makes clear that it is God that saves, and it makes clear that God would come down teaching....and that yet Jesus came in the flesh. The Roman Catholic church also teaches it's adherants to repetively pray the rosary and "hail Mary's", both completely against scripture, but what does that have to do with your rejection of the Truth, Christ? Nothing. Do you not understand that His believers must come to love Truth above all else, in which case they would reject that man-made dogma?

Again, I cannot answer your claims without being able to study the versus you are mentioning. The old testament has been translated by Christians and more often than not the wording is is twisted to fit the Christian point of view. Don't get me wrong I would

None of this washes with the old testament which I believe to be mostly accurate. I am not baiting or hating on Christians, I used to be one and it took years of reading researching the bible (using esword for root meanings of poorly translated text) and soul searching for me to come to this conclusion and it was hard and painful for me to lose my religion as I was as devout as one could possibly be. I am a truth seeker who wishes to share the truth that I have found.

Wait, you will no longer believe because some man-made church, run by men, incorporate pagan practices and rituals into the faith of Christ, which IS THE OLD TESTAMENT? Do you really think I as a Christian am subject to what the Catholic Church has declared? Truly? Did not Jesus say "Follow Me"? So this argument of yours makes no sense whatsoever. You are commanded a very tough role in Christ, to always speak His Truth in a world hostile to His Name. And yet, you fell because many churches chose their own dogma over Christ......that's like those whom blame and reject Paul for the lawless behaviour of many Christians, when he himself preached no such thing.

Just as Islam has perverted the ancient Hebrew faith so has the roman church. No I am not of the Jewish faith or ethnicity in case you were wondering.

Of course it has, but again, what does it have to do with your supposed denunciation of Jesus? You live in Babylon, still captive to it's ruler who places himself above God. When Jesus sets you free, you finally start to see Babylon for what it is - a pitiful system that rejects it's Creator and holds it's captives prisoner in a web of lies and deceit. Instead of recognising that false Christianity thrives in this Babylon, you appear to have not realised this and therefore reject Christ based on nothing more than falsehood. It's like denying Christ exists because Satan told you so......

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reply to post by begoodbees


The meaning of the names Adam to Noah tell us what we need to know "Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow, (but) the blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring (the) despairing comfort and rest". Who came down teaching? Who does the God of Abraham state will effect His salvation? His mighty arm and hand. Who are they? "I and the father are one"..."Our God is One".....The Old Testament makes clear that Our God is One. The scripture makes clear that it is God that saves, and it makes clear that God would come down teaching....and that yet Jesus came in the flesh. The Roman Catholic church also teaches it's adherants to repetively pray the rosary and "hail Mary's", both completely against scripture, but what does that have to do with your rejection of the Truth, Christ? Nothing. Do you not understand that His believers must come to love Truth above all else, in which case they would reject that man-made dogma?

Again, I cannot answer your claims without being able to study the versus you are mentioning. The old testament has been translated by Christians and more often than not the wording is is twisted to fit the Christian point of view. Don't get me wrong I would love to be proven wrong and return the mainstream it would make my life and family relations alot easier. You seem to think that because it is just one church that is spreading some of these doctrines that the rest are all ok. As far as I know they are mostly all now teaching the rapture and the trinity doctrines and you must understand that every denomination sprang from the Roman Catholic church.