The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral

I am not sure I understand the religious fanatics and their agenda.

1. You won't even respond to any kind of rational truths that we have out there that are fact.
2. You keep blathering the same old fallacies from the past. Possibly a form of brainwashing.
3. You believe in concepts that are so irrational that it borders on being psychotic.
4. Everyone else is wrong and you will "give your life" to prove that.
5. You wait around for some "higher being than you" to come and "save" or reward you and your life effort.
6. Take things so far out of context and so literally, that by mixing the 2 together, it makes sense to you.

Before you bash me, you have to realize I never mentioned YOUR particular religion. If you have some threats for me, maybe you need to rethink your premise.

Please excuse the layout and punctuation, I am without my glasses at the moment.

oxi

For someone who doesn't believe in God, you put forth a lot of effort in your speal. Leave my right to believe alone, I will leave you to your ignorance.

Originally posted by windword
The 10 Commandments are Unnecessary, Irrelevant and Immoral

So to be clear, you're a self-worshiping disrespectful murdering cheating thieving lying wantful human being.
Or you aren't but for some reason are advocating such.

Ok then!

Here I thought this was going to be a "dialogue on the Decalogue" but alas, it's simply another in an endless string of anti-Christian, anti-religious hooey here on ATS.

reply to post by windword


The old saying goes its better to have a bad plan than no plan.
So lets say we turf the 10 commandments out the window. Please tell us a new 10 commandments?

reply to post by windword

They're irrelevant to us today, because they go against western philosophy of democracy, freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

They are the very cornerstone leading to those very principals - freedom, liberty and happiness. Proof? As nearly all of us can attest, we are losing our freedoms, our liberties and our happiness AS SOCIETY ABANDONS HIS COMMANDS. Democracy under Christ offers all of those things to everyone - democracy in an immoral society DIES as greed is voted for, as materialism is voted for, as murder is voted for...We all sit back and watch corrupt leaders being voted in by people who are themselves corrupt, as leaders are voted in who are thieves yet the populace embraces money, wealth and thievery itself, as the murder of babies is legalised because the population needs and wants to kill the fruit of their immorality....We are going down the toilet because our leaders are reflecting US.

An immoral population, waxing worse and worse, eventually implodes. The converse could be true! A moral population demands moral leaders - and gets them. This is the ENTIRE SCRIPTURE and Our God's message to humanity. You reap what you sow, and looking out across the western lands populated by the Israelite descendants, for most Christians ARE the ISRAEL of God, we are nation's lost in bewilderment as to what happened to us. We can't understand why we are watching everything disappear - jobs, homes, savings, health - and yet, we still repeat the same darn mistakes that ancient Israel committed - becoming lawless and becoming enticed by foreign gods and practices. Israel was always destroyed by it's enemies, and as I watch the communism and fascism encircling this nation, I have no doubt in my bones that it is our future. Immoral populations eventually bring a dictator and tyrant because all power has been handed over TO MEN.

Hail Caesar.
Hail Hitler.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Do you think that no morality existed in any of the civilization, Sumeria, Indus Valley, Helenistic or Minoan Greece, etc. before Moses, his band of merry Israelites and the introduction of the 10 Commandments?

What did Melchizedek and Abraham do for moral guidelines? How to the Egyptians manage the chaos of a society bereft of the ultimate standard of morality?

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Do you think that the 10 Commandments should be enforced as law in the United States? Do you think the Mosiac Law that outlines the punishments should also be upheld? Surely you're not in favor of the death penalty for adultery. What do you think the punishment should be? How should they be enforced?

Finally, do you think that, if the 10 Commandments are legislated into secular law in the USA, that all American's should accept Yahweh as their national God?

I will try to keep my points simple.

Pentecost (feast of weeks) = the annual high holy day God commanded forever to be kept holy. It was a day that explained the law of God, which God gave to mankind in order for there to be peace.

Pentecost 1447BC = God gives the law to Israel (Moses and the Israelites). But physical Israel is not a spiritual creation, the 10 commandments are spiritual laws. A physical carnal mind is not capible of keeping a spiritual law. Israel FAILED to obey the laws of the covenant and God allowed them to be taken captive by Assyria as a result. The proof revealed by Israel's failure was that even when a nation is given special help from God, as well as the law from God that produces peace, physical mankind is not capible of keeping it.

Pentecost 31AD = God gives a portion of His Holy Spirit to the church of God established on Passover (the day Jesus Christ was put to death) through the apostles. This is the first time God Almighty began to dwell in His begotten children (some called out members of physical mankind). ONLY with God's spirit dwelling in the mind is mankind capible of keeping the law of God.

But God will not dwell in sin, in order for God to be actively dwelling in the mind of His begotten child, sin must be repented of (change your mind towards). God defines sin as the transgretion of God's law, therefore the only means to keep the law in spirit and in truth requires first a calling by God to his church, then the receiving of His Holy Spirit dwelling in your mind after full water baptism, and then the choice to continue to obey the law. If those steps are not taken mankind is not able to keep God's laws by nature.

Pentecost 2013AD = God brings His government to the Earth to reign for 1000 years. For even God's church FAILED to keep the law with God's spirit dwelling in them and in 1994 the apostacy took place and all of God's people were vomitted out of God's mouth (the true abomination of desolation/destruction of the temple). ONLY Elohim which is God's family name (currently only Yahweh and Jesus Christ are part of it; however on Pentecost 2013 144,000 redeemed from the last 6000 years will be added) can be trusted to keep God's spiritual laws (10 commandments) fully and to administer them over physical mankind, not even God's true church (physical beings with God's spirit dwelling in them) can be trusted.

The 10 commandments are the template to everlasting peace, the first 4 laws teach mankind how to love God, the last 6 teach mankind how to love each other. Together they enforced Jesus Christ's statement that "to love Almighty God with all you heart, and to love on another as I have loved you" are the greatest commandments, they are actually the summary of the 10 commandments given to mankind but failed to be lived.

These 10 commanments are the only way by which mankind can live in peace, all other ways lead to suffering and destruction, the last 6000 years of mankinds civilization and the resulting world you live in today are the definitive PROOF of this truth.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


I thought you said simple....

How's this for simple.

1. Always tell the truth.
2. Do not violate the rights of your fellow man.
3. If you have a belief in GOD, keep it to yourself.
4. Don't spend more money than you have.

Done...World Peace...

oxi

Originally posted by windword

What did Melchizedek and Abraham do for moral guidelines? How to the Egyptians manage the chaos of a society bereft of the ultimate standard of morality?

Melchizedek was a physical form God Almighty chose to take in order to teach Abraham His laws prior to giving them in the form of the 10 commandments 7 generations later.

They are the same source, God gave His moral guidlines to Abraham directly because he would begin a work in creating a physical nation to rule over in time through him.

The truth is no nation INCLUDING ISRAEL can keep the law, all have a similar moral guide; the same one you and many use to this day... your inner heart.

Jer 17:19
"the heart is deceiptful above all else, and despritely wicked"

God says we cannot trust our inner moral compass, because by nature we were created to oppose God's rule over us. God tells us what is right and wrong, our choice is to believe God (faith) or believe self.

Rom 8:7
"Because the carnal (physical) mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

God Bless,

Originally posted by Oxidadoblancoquepasa
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

I thought you said simple....

How's this for simple.

1. Always tell the truth.
2. Do not violate the rights of your fellow man.
3. If you have a belief in GOD, keep it to yourself.
4. Don't spend more money than you have.

Done...World Peace...

oxi

These laws would not result in spiritual growth into one with God over a lifetime of repentance. That is the purpose of our being created physical by God; to become Elohim in time.

God created us for a purpose, your laws would not achieve that purpose.

Not my will, but God's wil be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Again we cannot trust our logic, this is what scripture states, a piece of clay knows not what shape it should be, but the potter that created it does. The 10 commandments are about God creating a family and how it is to come about by requiring a change in thinking; not about living a physical life until we die.

God Bless,

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by windword

What did Melchizedek and Abraham do for moral guidelines? How to the Egyptians manage the chaos of a society bereft of the ultimate standard of morality?

Melchizedek was a physical form God Almighty chose to take in order to teach Abraham His laws prior to giving them in the form of the 10 commandments 7 generations later.

Really? When did GOD ever rule a Kingdom on Earth? I thought no one has seen the face of GOD!

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything. [Genesis 14:18-20 NIV]

They are the same source, God gave His moral guidlines to Abraham directly because he would begin a work in creating a physical nation to rule over in time through him.

The truth is no nation INCLUDING ISRAEL can keep the law, all have a similar moral guide; the same one you and many use to this day... your inner heart.

Jer 17:19
"the heart is deceiptful above all else, and despritely wicked"

God says we cannot trust our inner moral compass, because by nature we were created to oppose God's rule over us. God tells us what is right and wrong, our choice is to believe God (faith) or believe self.

So God does hate free will. Why did he create us to "oppose God's rule?" Why does God have to tell us what's wrong and right, if Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Rom 8:7
"Because the carnal (physical) mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

That's Paul's opinion. It makes no sense. How can a part of us not be subject to God's law, if we are created in God's image? I reject that entirely.

You bible beating christians love all those twists and turns that the good old bible gives you. What a wonderful
circular road you skip down...I read 13 of yawehs novels translated by some ghostwriters.....

It is like reading a John Grisham novel to you folks isn't it?..The more info you have (that might not be real), the more cannon fodder you have to bash those that don't think your way.

We had no idea that dinosaurs existed until the first bone was found in 1832 (maybe1839).
We thought the earth was flat and we didn't know about the solar system till a man was put to death for it.
We don't have any idea how old the Sphinx is. It is still being debated.

But somehow, I really can't grasp this, there was a little man that was walking around for the last 6000 yrs. recording everything that happened and wrote it down in 1rst, 2nd and 3rd person views and that is the gospel that people follow....

You won't take into consideration that some guy in the middle east born to a virgin named mary, with a father named joseph, surrounded by folks with english names that wrote everything about him 40 to 70 years later. may not have been "real". I would feel alot better about the story if it said that his disciples were, "Samir Alhajak Mohammed, Ober Mohamed Alazeka...You know...Common names that have been used over there for THOUSANDS of years due to their language. Remember, we have ALOT of history of a guy named TUT and we are so lazy that we evn shortened his name down so the scribes could write faster and save space.

C'mon, just use a little common sense before you "TESTIFY" to your belief. Some of the ones that are really devoted to their gods are the same ones that are flying drones over other countries and helping innocent men, women and children find their maker.....

get real or go home....

oxi

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by Oxidadoblancoquepasa
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

I thought you said simple....

How's this for simple.

1. Always tell the truth.
2. Do not violate the rights of your fellow man.
3. If you have a belief in GOD, keep it to yourself.
4. Don't spend more money than you have.

Done...World Peace...

oxi

These laws would not result in spiritual growth into one with God over a lifetime of repentance. That is the purpose of our being created physical by God; to become Elohim in time.

God created us for a purpose, your laws would not achieve that purpose.

Not my will, but God's wil be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Again we cannot trust our logic, this is what scripture states, a piece of clay knows not what shape it should be, but the potter that created it does. The 10 commandments are about God creating a family and how it is to come about by requiring a change in thinking; not about living a physical life until we die.

God Bless,

So glad you know gods will..Does he talk to you? Do you hear him while others can't? YOU and you alone know his purpose, plan and design for man and the universe?

Seriously dude, maybe you need to move to a state that has less stringent pot laws or maybe you need to try some extra good :mushrooms" on your pizza next time.

To say that I should not trust my logic is one of the most insane things I have ever heard..."Hmmmm..Logic tells me not to jump off this cliff (but I have free will), or to drive my car into another for no reason".....But YOUR god creates my logic?

Do you get in the van on Saturday mornings and go to neighborhoods and accoust people in their own private homes "telling them the GOOD news"?

Are you willing to take a little reality test in regard to your beliefs?

oxi

Originally posted by Sly1one
reply to post by windword

 

Ahh...right and wrong paradigm. The fact people can argue about what is right and what is wrong is proof that perceptually each are relative...and therefor neither are in themselves right or wrong...but can only be PERCEIVED that way in relation to ones own perspective.

The OP makes some very valid points and others argue it from a perception that right and wrong are universally accepted truths or beliefs...

One poster said you learn right and wrong through experience....he knew not to steal when someone stole from him and how it made him feel. The ironic thing is that if no one were ever to steal...no one would ever learn that lesson and thus everyone would steal because they haven't learned that lesson. Its circular...by this logic theft is mandatory to eradicate itself...to me that doesn't make much sense at all.

Another "proof" that I often like to use as evidence right and wrong are relative is that very very rarely do we perceive ourselves to be "wrong"...we strive to be right and do right...and we define right and wrong in such a way as to accommodate this. I often use Hitler as an analogy to this as he perceived his own actions to be right and he was doing right by them while others perceived them as being wrong...but neither are universal truths.

We wouldn't know what right is without the contrast of "wrong"...so in order for "right" to even exist...so must "wrong" exist...and the crusade to eradicate one is futile...if you remove one you remove the other. This is how contrast works

As far as the 10 commandments, they are written with the implication of universal truths and as the OP insinuated are written to be broken as if they were followed...they wouldn't need to exist at all. The mere existence of the 10 commandments implies that its an exercise in futility. The relativity of good and bad, right and wrong, implies that there is no universal obedience to the commandments...

so I would have to agree with the notion that they are unnecessary and irrelevant.

Your logic is circular in relation to His commands for you leave out the most crucial part - consequences. Yes, one can argue that good and evil, right and wrong, is relative. You may define abortion as not breaking the commandment Thou Shalt Not Murder. I would define it as breaking it. But in the very beginning, God even told Cain that he could still choose to do good and it would bring life or choose to do evil and it would bring death. Let's go back to abortion. Just because man chooses to label abortion as a right, or as a necessity or as a good thing, it still brings death - it still brings the consequences of doing evil, death and misery.. So now matter how much man justifies His commands as "relative" or no matter if man chooses to call evil "good", the consequences show that they are absolute for they bring the consequences. It's His Law, His Word written into Creation. The penalty for sin is death and choosing evil brings death and misery. This is why scripture is clear that men will bring about the end of this age by continuously doing evil when they think that they are doing right. We are doing it now...our prisons are filling up with millions doing "wrong" but as those "wrongs" are slowly but surely relabelled as good due to this "no absolute philosophy", pedophiles for instance will one day stay in society preying on your kids because enough men will agree that it is not EVIL. Everybody will suffer.The innocent suffer the most. Jesus was crucified by men who all but distorted and twisted His laws to the point they were worthless - they too viewed them in this relative manner. Evil men kill innocent people. The poor, weak, meek and most innocent suffer tremendously as a consequence of this refusal by man to understand and believe what He says.

In fact, this world already is condemned. It's why the Holy Spirit through John confirms

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:18-21

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by windword

What did Melchizedek and Abraham do for moral guidelines? How to the Egyptians manage the chaos of a society bereft of the ultimate standard of morality?

Melchizedek was a physical form God Almighty chose to take in order to teach Abraham His laws prior to giving them in the form of the 10 commandments 7 generations later.

Really? When did GOD ever rule a Kingdom on Earth? I thought no one has seen the face of GOD!

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything. [Genesis 14:18-20 NIV]

They are the same source, God gave His moral guidlines to Abraham directly because he would begin a work in creating a physical nation to rule over in time through him.

The truth is no nation INCLUDING ISRAEL can keep the law, all have a similar moral guide; the same one you and many use to this day... your inner heart.

Jer 17:19
"the heart is deceiptful above all else, and despritely wicked"

God says we cannot trust our inner moral compass, because by nature we were created to oppose God's rule over us. God tells us what is right and wrong, our choice is to believe God (faith) or believe self.

So God does hate free will. Why did he create us to "oppose God's rule?" Why does God have to tell us what's wrong and right, if Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Rom 8:7
"Because the carnal (physical) mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

That's Paul's opinion. It makes no sense. How can a part of us not be subject to God's law, if we are created in God's image? I reject that entirely.

In response to your last question. Throughout scripture, and society today, shows you - man wants to become like God, defining his own good and evil. Man wants to save himself. Man wants to overcome death. Man wants all his physical pleasures with none of the diseases, death and misery it brings. Man in fact will attempt to cure those diseases instead of change their carnal behaviour. Man will redefine baby killing as abortion and sexual perversions as normal so that he can partake of them with no feelings of judgement and conviction. Man, in his carnal mind, FIGHTS GOD and yet WANTS TO BE HIS OWN GOD in charge of his own destiny. Image? Likeness?

i believe in god but im pretty sure moses made the thy shall not commit adultery because his wife was cheating on him or something, and thy shall not kill is a great guide line, and if everyone followed it the world would be a much better place, the ten commandments were guidelines most of them make sence, but there are some that do not such as thy shall not steal, sometimes poor people have to steal because they have nothing, and thy shall not commit adultery, i believe in the whole let the butterfly be a butterfly, and love thy neighbour we should,
just because the world nolonger or never really even bothered to follow these guidelines doesnt mean other people shouldnt, some people go by these guidelines and for the most part its a good thing, and if that book didnt exist there would be alot more bad people in this world, yes i know that the christian religion was an excuse for war, but there was war before religion and there will be war after religion, but real christians, and not past governments that just hid behind the religion, are really nice people and if more people were like them the world would be a great place

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

Do you think that the 10 Commandments should be enforced as law in the United States? Do you think the Mosiac Law that outlines the punishments should also be upheld? Surely you're not in favor of the death penalty for adultery. What do you think the punishment should be? How should they be enforced?

Finally, do you think that, if the 10 Commandments are legislated into secular law in the USA, that all American's should accept Yahweh as their national God?

My answer is no on some, yes on others, and here's why. The carnal mind cannot obey God's laws, it's why He now writes them in our hearts and teaches us obedience. Secularly, we punish murderers and yet we have murders. Additionally, it is the Father who grants belief and Faith, not me nor any Christian. Therefore, legislating a belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would only produce what Our God never created in this age - a revived Holy Roman Empire. His Kingdom is not of this world, and this age is salvation to those who come to Him, seeking Him in His Kingdom. He rules and reigns now. Those penalties show you the penalties for sin, and just how much is forgiven when one comes to Him. I can share the gospel message and extoll how much Jesus still heals the eyes to see and the ears to hear - giving understanding. I can point out to people that evil deeds, no matter how desperate some are to relabel it as "good", will always produce the consequences that follows evil, not the life that follows doing good. I would definitely encourage laws against doing no harm to others - murder, abortion, pornography, pedophilia, stealing etc. But again, no amount of laws will be effectual if our society continually promotes these things as good. Value life and abortions decreases. Value family and our elderly get taken care of. Value God and everything gets taken care of.

We will see a repeat of Jesus day. The close alliance of a 'Roman' party and an apostate Israel enforcing their religious laws. Please, remember my words when the time comes. They will give you no true Faith because it is He that extends His mercy - not them. Will it have a 'Christian' or Jewish moniker. Probably.

reply to post by windword


Geez , Put some Mustard on that Pretzel Logic Sonny , Morality Begins in each and Every Persons Mind , it's Called a Conscious ................

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


So, you agree with me then, that the 10 Commandments are irrelevant and unnecessary?