Hey Hard-Core Christian Right Conservatives! Here's How Backwards You Really Are!!!

Good post but please don't call Europe socialist. It is no more socialist than America. It has a capitalist economy like the rest of the world. Socialism is an economic system of worker ownership, not a liberal government.

"Liberalism is not socialism and never will be" Winston Churchill

The confusion between liberalism and socialism is what will keep people wage slaves, instead of truly working for their own freedom.

reply to post by anon29


No, YouTube data from the Netherlands is not comparable to the Rosetta Stone.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
Christians just want to control people. That's all religion is about; control.

Religions suggest a certain type of behaviour. You're free to accept the dogma of a specific religion or deny it. Your choice.

Governments create laws and demand a certain type of behaviour. There is not freedom to choose which laws you want to accept or not. With government, you either accept thier "dogma" or get punished.

Really?

Charles Fuqua of Arkansas wants to make "suggestions" by executing unruly teenagers just like the Taliban do. Charles Worley and a couple thousand of his congregation want to "suggest" that homosexuals are rounded up and put into concentration camps so they die off. I believe that Protestants and Puritans alike have a long history of "suggesting" that women be burned at the stake for witchcraft whenever something happens that they can't explain...right? Ever hear of the Good Reverend Chivington? He "suggested" that several hundred unarmed Native American women and children be slaughtered while they sleep...and then ordered their genitals cut off so he could throw them out as "souvenirs" to the Denver townsfolk after the Sand Creek Massacre.

Yep...good ol' religious "suggestions". Good thing they don't ever punish anybody at all....right?

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
Christians just want to control people. That's all religion is about; control.

Wrong. Christianity is all about choices, love, and respect of yourself, God, and others.

So, what your saying is we should allow our children to sleep over at ones other house and let them fornicate like rabbits, and if they end up preggos no biggie, right?
And if they kill that baby no biggie, right?
You do know child prostitution is legal in the Netherlands, right.

What a wonderful socialist utopia we could have if we just turned over all the power to the government.
If we would just allow the intellectuals tell us what was right and wrong.
If we would just allow the Marxist to steal a little bit more of our labor we could have a paradise.
If we just killed a few million more babies, our utopia would be perfect.

The numbers speak for themselves. I'll let them do the arguing.

The numbers provided are skewed to fit a bias. The bias is all that is doing the talking.

By contrast, teenagers in South Dakota (6 per 1,000), Utah, Kentucky, Nebraska and North Dakota all had abortion rates of eight or fewer per 1,000 women aged 15–19.

If I only provided these numbers I could argue that the US has a better rate than the Netherlands, couldn't I?

Let's not push an agenda and then make the numbers fit, shall we?

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I am curious as to why you related this data to such a narrow scope of conservative Christians? When interpreting data, one should strive to provide complete statistics as well as checking their bias at the door.

Because conservative christians are the crazies who are simultaneously against abortion...yet are ALSO mysteriously against anything and everything that has been proven time and time again to REDUCE abortions (teenage or otherwise). You know...things like proper sex education, a climate of sexual permissiveness where kids don't have to sneak around like criminals to do what is natural, lots and lots of free or cheap contraceptives, etc.

Originally posted by bjax9er
What a wonderful socialist utopia we could have if we just turned over all the power to the government.

See this is what happens when everyone calls liberalism "socialism". You get people who really do think it's socialism, and it is a disservice to what socialism actually is.

Liberalism killed socialism, and modern socialism (post 1840's) is not utopian. Utopian socialism was a different movement than modern socialism, led by people like Robert Owen, that came before industrialization. In fact Marx and Engels used the term communism to differentiate their socialist movement from the Utopian Socialists that came before them.

reply to post by beezzer


And religious nutcases are in power in this country. They try to force their religious views on everyone else.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
Christians just want to control people. That's all religion is about; control.

Religions suggest a certain type of behaviour. You're free to accept the dogma of a specific religion or deny it. Your choice.

Governments create laws and demand a certain type of behaviour. There is not freedom to choose which laws you want to accept or not. With government, you either accept thier "dogma" or get punished.

Really?

Charles Fuqua of Arkansas wants to make "suggestions" by executing unruly teenagers just like the Taliban do. Charles Worley and a couple thousand of his congregation want to "suggest" that homosexuals are rounded up and put into concentration camps so they die off. I believe that Protestants and Puritans alike have a long history of "suggesting" that women be burned at the stake for witchcraft whenever something happens that they can't explain...right? Ever hear of the Good Reverend Chivington? He "suggested" that several hundred unarmed Native American women and children be slaughtered while they sleep...and then ordered their genitals cut off so he could throw them out as "souvenirs" to the Denver townsfolk after the Sand Creek Massacre.

Yep...good ol' religious "suggestions". Good thing they don't ever punish anybody at all....right?

Which one of those "suggestions" is currently law?

Waiting.

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
reply to post by beezzer

 

And religious nutcases are in power in this country. They try to force their religious views on everyone else.

Can you point out the laws that these nutcases have passed in terms of teen pregnancy?

Seems to me that liberal politicians have done more harm with their laws than any religion.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Your assumption is baseless. I am from New York, where sex education is taught liberally in all public schools and yet they are among the highest teenage abortion rates in the nation. Statistics are statistics and they do not have opinions. Religion, at best, is merely one of many factors that go into the compilation of data. As stated in my first post there are many other factors that carry equal weight in the determination.

You seem to be pushing your agenda harder than those that you accuse of pushing theirs.

And why point out just christianity?

Islam has a much harsher tenent than christianity, or is this just a bash-thread?

Originally posted by anon29

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I'm guessing you aren't a parent? If you are, I'm speechless.

So the majority of parents in the Netherlands have you speechless? Why? Because they don't lie to their children and attach negative stigmas to perfectly normal, human activities?

This type of data is true for any substance/activity/whatever that people are sheltered from--the more you tell someone not to do something, the more they are going to want to do it. This is why the drug war has been a failure, and is why abstinence-only sex education will continue to produce these disgusting teen pregnancy and abortion rates.

...but we should continue to base our society on 2000+ year-old stories.............

Exactly.

We wonder why our society is so dysfunctional...the majority of Americans require that their children move out of the house before acting like real human beings.

I guess teenage sex is bad...but apparently "god" says it's OK for grown men to rape little boys so long as they are REALLY "men of god".

Makes perfect sense.

reply to post by lambs to lions


No it isn't. The Christian God is tyrannical and has committed genocide in the OT. The new testament message is accept Jesus or go to hell. It tells you how to live, what is "sin" or not.

It is a totalitarian religion.

Originally posted by lambs to lions

Originally posted by ShotGunRum
Christians just want to control people. That's all religion is about; control.

Wrong. Christianity is all about choices, love, and respect of yourself, God, and others.

Cool. Then I take it you are pro-choice on abortion and think it's abhorrent that the Catholic Church would attempt to prevent it's employees from receiving medication which their DOCTORS prescribed, right?

Originally posted by beezzer
And why point out just christianity?

Islam has a much harsher tenent than christianity, or is this just a bash-thread?

Christianity is the main religion in the USA, that is why. It is irrelevant to talk about a religion that has no power in the USA.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by anon29

 

Yeah, because 2000 yr old religion is what keeps responsible parents from supporting their teenage child's sex life...I hope you caught my sarcasm. And to answer your question, yes, if the data is correct...these parents regardless of nationality, do in fact leave me speechless.

Yes...but there you go denying reality again.

It's IRRESPONSIBLE to approach the subject in the manner that Mississippi does...and it's almost NINE TIMES MORE responsible to approach the subject that the Netherlands does.

Your opinion is irrelevant. The data shows that that the BEST WAY to PREVENT both teenage pregnancy AND abortions is to be a lot more like the Netherlands.

Originally posted by ShotGunRum

Originally posted by beezzer
And why point out just christianity?

Islam has a much harsher tenent than christianity, or is this just a bash-thread?

Christianity is the main religion in the USA, that is why. It is irrelevant to talk about a religion that has no power in the USA.

Fair enough. Now if we can establish where the christian church is currently writing all the laws for the US government, then you might have a valid point.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

I'm guessing you aren't a parent? If you are, I'm speechless.

And you do not seem to be paying attention as a parent it seems to be honest.


What does that actually mean in context to what was presented ? I can't seem to find any meaning in that response at all apart from rejection that is, what are you speechless about exactly ? If anything the OP has shown that if you live in the U.S (like you do) that you should stop and think about what is going on and why it is going so very wrong concerning this matter compared to Europe's (or just the Netherlands) approach.

If you are such a concerned parent you would not have posted what you did as a response because the difference in these numbers is simply huge, to huge to be waved of like you just did.