Advice needed for a new Christian

reply to post by Klassified


I admit my ignorance, but how do you balance the OP's post with the new testament ?
Sure you're not bound by the 603 other rules; that could also be considered convenient. But as I understand it Jesus was jewish, so he would have been bound by the afforementioned laws. Why aren't you guys ?
Could jesus eat a bacon sandwich before he was crucified? If not could he after the ressurection ? Just a trivial example but it confuses the **** out of me.
Also are you saying that Jesus whom by definition was bound by those laws was wrong to live by them ? Or did he break them ?

Google "Old Covenant" and then "New Covenant" to get an understanding.

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So the old testament is irrelevant ?

Or do you pick and choose the most convinient ?

edit on 8-12-2012 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2012 by cody599 because: Can't spell

The penalty for breaking the law (second death) is no longer in play. This is not to say you have a license to be licentious, the Holy Spirit convicts you for sinning until you repent once he comes upon you.

Christians use the OT to learn from Israel's mistakes, and because the prophecies confirm Jesus as Messiah and that OT gives us the identity of our God: The Holy One of Israel or Messiah the Anointed One. It's not about picking and choosing what is "convenient". From the OT we also learn the price for sin (death) and how God views sin. Sin means to break his laws.

Now you will not die the second death (spirit death) for breaking his laws because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, but the price of sin still takes it's toll on your body, such as if you engage in premarital sex and homosexuality and you come down with HIV, that's the price for your sin, his blood cover's our sins so we do not die the second death of the spirit and his wrath passes over us which is what is symbolised in the jewish Passover. From the NT we learn that God forgives our sins if we ask him to come into us and change our hearts towards him and make us anew. The second covenant of Christ's blood being shed for our iniquity, is that if we do screw up in our walk with God his blood will cover that sin and there is no penalty of the second death for us. Second covenant only protects your spirit and soul from the price of sin, not your physical body.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Looks like the OP has been copy-pasted from somewhere else.

politicalhumor.about.com...

edit on 8-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

I know! How arrogant, huh? Doesn't the OP know that only the religious are allowed to spread the word. JEEZ!

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000


LMAO. You think you're trolling christians when you're actually trolling jews.

Fail brah

.

Read the New Testament if you want to troll us.

I see. So, you don't believe in the whole bible. The OT testament is completely made up by man, and contains utterly absurd laws and ridiculous stories about god.

But the New Testament was inspired by god and is TOTALLY TRUE!

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by cody599

 

The old testament is very relevant to Christians. Without it, there would be no new testament. But, as Paul says:

Romans 15:4

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

edit on 12/8/2012 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

Hope??? HULLO! Have you READ the OT???

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000


LMAO. You think you're trolling christians when you're actually trolling jews.

Fail brah

.

Read the New Testament if you want to troll us.

I see. So, you don't believe in the whole bible. The OT testament is completely made up by man, and contains utterly absurd laws and ridiculous stories about god.

But the New Testament was inspired by god and is TOTALLY TRUE!

No you don't see and neither did i say i didn't believe in the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT prophecy of the coming Savior. The OT was the foreshadowing. Christianity is mirroring Israel, because we are Israel.

Originally posted by cody599

Also are you saying that Jesus whom by definition was bound by those laws was wrong to live by them ? Or did he break them ?

edit on 8-12-2012 by cody599 because: I hate my keyboard

edit on 8-12-2012 by cody599 because: The usual

Oh he broke em' all right. The number one commandment set forth by the Sanhedrin was: Thou shalt not steal our sheeple or threaten our power over them.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

No you don't see and neither did i say i didn't believe in the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT prophecy of the coming Savior. The OT was the foreshadowing. Christianity is mirroring Israel, because we are Israel.

Sooo, you DO believe in the OT, which means you ARE bound by those 603 laws. Right? Are you trying to have it both ways?

I haven't met a neophyte yet who hadn't been told we're not bound by the jewish civil laws. 10 commandments are 1 thing but not the other 603 laws.

reply to post by cody599

This is a very extensive and detailed topic. I have written long sermons on this very topic, and they don't do it justice. But in short(very), Christ fulfilled all of the requirements placed on the Jews by the laws of the old testament(covenant). By being sinless, spotless, and perfect under the law, he was also the perfect sacrifice to make atonement for the trangressions of all people for all time. By sacrificing himself, he effectively freed all humans from the "curse of the law", and reconciled God and mankind. For those who identify their existence with, and in Christ, they are free to live under a new covenant. They are dead to the law, but alive to God.

The understanding you seek about this won't come through a post on ATS. I spent decades understanding this, and other doctrines of the bible. And admittedly, I understand them, but have a hard time summarizing them for someone who doesn't understand the very basics of Christianity. What the bible calls milk. But I hope that helps a little.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

No you don't see and neither did i say i didn't believe in the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT prophecy of the coming Savior. The OT was the foreshadowing. Christianity is mirroring Israel, because we are Israel.

Sooo, you DO believe in the OT, which means you ARE bound by those 603 laws. Right? Are you trying to have it both ways?

I haven't met a neophyte yet who hadn't been told we're not bound by the jewish civil laws. 10 commandments are 1 thing but not the other 603 laws.

New covenant, get with the program. I said before the OT was a foreshadowing of the NT to come.

reply to post by jiggerj

Indeed I have. More times than I care to admit. I was just trying to give him the Christian perspective.

You know I'm a heathen jigger. I just happen to have the advantage of knowing Christian beliefs and doctrine, because I was one for decades. A serious one.

reply to post by Xaphan

Why do people pick and choose which parts of the bible they follow?

Thankfully we have free will, with that comes "choice".

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Indeed I have. More times than I care to admit. I was just trying to give him the Christian perspective.

You know I'm a heathen jigger. I just happen to have the advantage of knowing Christian beliefs and doctrine, because I was one for decades. A serious one.

edit on 12/8/2012 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

Yeah, but you gave me the opportunity to comment on how the OT offers no hope at all. Thanks for that.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

No you don't see and neither did i say i didn't believe in the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT prophecy of the coming Savior. The OT was the foreshadowing. Christianity is mirroring Israel, because we are Israel.

Sooo, you DO believe in the OT, which means you ARE bound by those 603 laws. Right? Are you trying to have it both ways?

I haven't met a neophyte yet who hadn't been told we're not bound by the jewish civil laws. 10 commandments are 1 thing but not the other 603 laws.

edit on 12/8/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

New covenant, get with the program. I said before the OT was a foreshadowing of the NT to come.

Sooo, you DO believe in the OT? You DO believe that god taught us the RIGHT way to purchase and own slaves? I'm confused.

Obvious troll is obvious. S&f for making several very valid points.

reply to post by Xaphan

I know most of you have studied these things extensively and thus have considerable knowledge and expertise in these matters, so I am confident that you will be able to give me sound advice.

I do not think that you need any serious advice from us. However, just open your bible and read Mt 22:36-40. There you will find the answer you are looking for.

Peace

reply to post by Seed76

Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Heh. Gotta love a father who puts himself before his children. See how it says loving him is the first and greatest commandment? Yeah. He's concerned more for our loyalty to him than our love for one another. That's encouraging. Kinda sounds like he's afraid of us. Otherwise, why would he go out of his way to say such a thing?

We have to be COMMANDED to love him. That's...well, that's interesting. Not just a request. Not just a wish or a hope. It's an ORDER. Because apparently, we have to be told to love him. Kind of implies that we wouldn't otherwise.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by cody599
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So the old testament is irrelevant ?

Or do you pick and choose the most convinient ?

edit on 8-12-2012 by cody599 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2012 by cody599 because: Can't spell

The penalty for breaking the law (second death) is no longer in play. This is not to say you have a license to be licentious, the Holy Spirit convicts you for sinning until you repent once he comes upon you.

Christians use the OT to learn from Israel's mistakes, and because the prophecies confirm Jesus as Messiah and that OT gives us the identity of our God: The Holy One of Israel or Messiah the Anointed One. It's not about picking and choosing what is "convenient". From the OT we also learn the price for sin (death) and how God views sin. Sin means to break his laws.

Now you will not die the second death (spirit death) for breaking his laws because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, but the price of sin still takes it's toll on your body, such as if you engage in premarital sex and homosexuality and you come down with HIV, that's the price for your sin, his blood cover's our sins so we do not die the second death of the spirit and his wrath passes over us which is what is symbolised in the jewish Passover. From the NT we learn that God forgives our sins if we ask him to come into us and change our hearts towards him and make us anew. The second covenant of Christ's blood being shed for our iniquity, is that if we do screw up in our walk with God his blood will cover that sin and there is no penalty of the second death for us. Second covenant only protects your spirit and soul from the price of sin, not your physical body.

Very succinct. Thankyou for your time to explain your point of veiw, that is a question I've asked many times and this is the first satisfactory reply I have heard (understood) . Again thankyou I'll stick to my form of spirituality until convinced otherwise, and wish you peace.

reply to post by Xaphan


First off, you might also want to keep ...Do not lie from ...the ten commandments.
But that aside, here are your answers

1. It is servant, and a paid position, the Hebrew word is not slave. The woman's position is a servant to the mother, again a paid position.
2. The daughter is rented out, money up front. You have right to give back a portion there of to redeem her time. If the son desires to marry her, She is then free of that purchase price and becomes a normal wife.
3. The woman must be your wife. If you cannot tell its that time of the month...well...
4. The sacrifice must be at the temple. Do you see the temple?
5. You must be a jew as must be your neighbor (From your material you cannot be a jew and be this unknowledgeable of scripture)
6. No, all abomination is the same. Just like if you slept with a woman before marriage you are to be stoned.
7. Only a perfect human specimen is allowed to approach the alter. You must also be a levite, is gramps?
8. This verse is regarding not copying those who do it as a rite for the dead and also cut their flesh. It is not about shaving.
9. No
10. Not a Jew, law does not apply.
11. Before, but she must be a Jew, but if you had slept with a woman out of wedlock yourself, you would already be dead so its a moot point and not there to say anything.
12. That section was added later.

I hope that will help your journey along, being that you seem so desirous to follow God and his ways.
May your eyes be open, May your journey arduous so you may learn from it, and your heart clean that you might learn to assess before speaking that which you know not of.

But I imagine I'm wasting my breath.