Man exiled for debunking 'weeping Jesus'

Atleast in 1000 years and billions of dead people later Atheists have managed to lower the penalty of blasphemy, in most places, from death to exile.

This guys lucky he doesnt live somewhere where religion is even worse.

reply to post by DarknStormy


Thats a bit of generalization. The Ganges river is at certain time of year is used for religious purpose, so yeah, multimillionaires go there to take a bath.

Saying entire Indians showers in filth is common as saying American often have incest. The comparison wouldn't even matter because the population there is 3.5x larger.

reply to post by GeneralMishka


India isn't that "poor" of a country, to start with.
So, you're saying this man, who happened to be in Finland when the issue arose (and is now staying there to avoid being sent to jail) was doing something wrong?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your post.

reply to post by wildtimes


I guess they way it is portrayed, movies like SlumgDog millionaire is not going to show the big cities, they are going to show the slums, so its easy for people to fed from the media manipulation.

India is 11th Richest country in the world.. might be shocking for some, not so much for others. In fact im shocked it came to 11th places with the 2nd highest population in the world.

When Edamaruku came to know about the incident, he checked the area and found that the miracle was just a plumbing defect and not due to a divine intervention.

Based on his investigation, he concluded that the source of the dripping water could be a sewage line running close to the cross. However, his scientific explanation did not go well with the Catholic Christian Secular Forum (CSF) and The Maharashtra Christian Youth Forum (MCYF), which then registered a case against him under section 295(A) of the IPC- which is a non-bailable offence.

Rationalist in Forced Exile over Jesus Miracle
A Google search and wiki article about Edamaruku resulted in finding this additional article about the incident.

This man is highly educated, was raised by non-religious parents in a Hindu-Christian household with NO INDOCTRINATION. He was not taught to be a skeptic or secular crusader. He came to the conclusion at age 15 that he was going to do something about religious folly.

This blasphemy law is non-bailable. If you're arrested, you STAY ARRESTED. Yet, India has "freedom of speech."
So it was not the Vatican that brought the charges, it was
the Catholic Christian Secular Forum, and
the Maharashtra Christian Youth Forum

who brought the charges. I'm going to look further into this, and I'll keep the thread updated as I go along. I'd never heard of this man, but I'm not in India. He has the support of Dawkins and other renowned "rationalists".

Yet another aricle: Indian skeptic charged with "blasphemy" for revealing secret behind "miracle" of weeping cross

Sanal Edamaruku identified the source of the water (a drainage near a washing room) and the mechanism how it reached Jesus feet (capillary action). The local church leaders, present during his investigation, appeared to be displeased.

Some hours later, in a live program on TV-9, Sanal explained his findings and accused the concerned Catholic Church officials of miracle mongering, as they were beating the big drum for the drippling Jesus statue with aggressive PR measures and by distributing photographs certifying the “miracle”. A heated debate began, in which the five church people, among them Fr. Augustine Palett, the priest of Our Lady of Velankanni church, and representatives of the Association of Concerned Catholics (AOCC) demanded that Sanal apologize. But Sanal refused and argued against them. [The whole TV program is recorded. You can watch an abridged version of it on YouTube.]

The thing was on TV, a live expose. I'll go dig it up.....

If this statue was weeping and if the tears were comming from a leaking sewer, why did none of the followers stop and ask why Jesus' tears smell and taste like poo... Personally, that would be a red flag. Our divine lord smells of fecee's..?? I don't think so....

This is just proof that organized religion does NOT have the best intrest of the people in mind. I don't even understand how people can believe in this nonsense. Seriously. I saw dew on a turnip once, does that mean jesus was in my salad? It must, because water couldn't possible collect on a turnip in the morning... That must mean I HAVE BLESSED TURNIPS!

Quickly now, everyone gather in my garden because touching my majik turnips will do more good for you than exercise, a good diet, and regular checkups with your doctor!

I'll stop there, I most recently made a pledge to bite my tounge if I feel like ripping on someone or in this case, something...



Robb

Here's the entire broadcast. It is English description and then begins in Hindi, but then switches to English.
And it shows the PROOF and the SCIENCE of what happened:

Denial is rampant.....fanatics abound....what did He think was gonna happen if he told the truth?
No good deed goes unpunished......
Now is the time for good men to get their heads down and keep their peace lest they be rent by
the great masses who do not think for themselves, but must be fed.....i think they call them sheep?

Sanal Edamaruku is the founder-president of Rationalist International.[1] He is also the president of the Indian Rationalist Association. He is the editor of the internet publication Rationalist International, author of 25 books and numerous articles. In 2012 he was charged with hurting religious sentiments for his role in examining a claimed miracle at a local Catholic Church.

Sanal Edamaruku wiki bio


This all happened months ago, but I'd never heard about it. How odd.

What will it take, do you guys think, before the skeptic exposers of this kind of thing are taken seriously and held up as heroes rather than blasphemers and demons?

I don't get it. I know it's a hard pill to swallow when something you took for granted (albeit faith-based, and not evidence-based) is shown as incorrect; I am just astounded how much opposition there is to forward movement.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Violater1

 

So when Sanal Edamaruku arrived and established that this was not holy water so much as holey plumbing, the backlash was severe.

Did you read the other two links? Each is slightly different in content. Are you saying, Violater1, that you believe these phoney miracles?

The Church has been doing this for CENTURIES. In medieval times the monks would rig up statues with turnkeys below the floor, and say "only the righteous can lift this statue!". Well, sure enough, no one could lift it because it was toggle-anchored below the floor - UNTIL THE PERSON THEY WERE HOPING TO FOOL came up, and then the key was released BELOW THE FLOOR and the statue lifted easily.

This is history. It's still happening.
If you'd like to discuss why this man is wrong, though, I'm open to your thoughts.

To be fair, he didn't say the man was wrong, just that he did not provide any proof to establish his claims.

As for "The Church" doing this for ceturies, hell, we have examples of Roman and Greek temples doing similar shennanigans.

Not a lot of Catholics in India, I don't think one can blame the law on the Church...more likely a part of some PC "don't offend anyone" type law.

reply to post by NavyDoc

To be fair, he didn't say the man was wrong, just that he did not provide any proof to establish his claims.

But, but..yes, he did!!

He showed the crowd, they were there when he exposed the plumbing. He said it was a trap also; that they lured him there, even offered him a "hammer" so he could strike the statue (another illegal act!)...

Here's a speech he gave in Ireland, it's hard for me to understand him because his accent is heavy, but this man certainly DID prove his case.



He's being persecuted by the Church and affiliated organizations (called Forums). When he figured out that it was a trap, he left, anticipating arrest. He's been staying away since.
He was warned he'd better flee or he would not live to see the next day. He fled.

He said "why should I apologize? Why do you WANT me to apologize? I saved you from drinking filthy water, and showed you how it was done." (basically). But yes, it's a PC thing - a PC LAW dating back to 1860 - not to hurt the sentiments of believers.

At the end of the speech he says the media supports him, the intelligentsia, some of the politicians, and the common people all support him.

He wants to go home and continue to bring India up to speed, to show that India is a good nation; it's the fanatics that are stopping him.

Strange world. Wild times. (That was the reason for my username choice - these are indeed wildtimes in which we live).

Maybe there is a miracle in this story anyway.

People were drinking and licking sewer water (in India!).

Did anyone die from it? Was there an outbreak of cholera, typhus or dysentery?

If no one died, I would consider it a miracle.... happening in India!

reply to post by butcherguy

Somehow I doubt that any deaths related to the drinking of this stuff would be publicized or linked. At least not that we'd hear about.

reply to post by butcherguy


If the statue is stood in swage water and moisture is drawn up through the statues plaster then wouldn’t it be filtered?

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by butcherguy

 

If the statue is stood in swage water and moisture is drawn up through the statues plaster then wouldn’t it be filtered?

I don't know. I wouldn't trust it though!

Miracle or not!

Originally posted by wildtimes
In Mumbai, India, a crucifix was "weeping" sewer water and the priests were offering this sewer water (caused by a leaking pipe) to Catholics to drink and lick....

- The athiest is the one who said it was sewer water. There is no report of the water being tested and it coming back as 'sewer water'.

- The athiest claims that the crying statue was due to sewer water bubbling through the statue from a leaky pipe. That's silly. Water can't bubble up from a leaky pipe, travel through the inside of a statue, then come out the top/head. It materials involved don't work like that.

- No one bothered to check to see if what the athiest said is true. Those who want him to be right, just accept it. They don't bother to check the 'checker'. Where is the evidence to support his statement? Water test reports? Engineer reports on the materials of the statue and if they are porous or not? etc etc

- Catholics in different parts of the world believe that statues can weep supernaturally. I saw one weep in (Medjugorje) Yugoslavia back in 1991. Oil and/or water is thought to flow from statues at times.

- The laws about 'blasphemy' are ignorant. If someone tells the truth or proves a crying statue wrong .. then that's just the truth. People should learn to deal with the truth. HOWEVER, in this case, the ATHIEST did not prove anything. He just made statements about what he thought and didn't supply any water test data or engineer reports on the 'leaky pipe', and he didn't explain how a leaky pipe in the ground could possibly push water all the way up a statue (through all that material) and then just leak out the eyes of the statue at the top.

Maybe I missed it, but did anyone test the water itself?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Hi FF,
Did you watch the videos? There's one of the tv program that shows where the pipes led into the statue, and a sewer drain, and "capillary action" caused the water to go into the pipes and the water came out of the FEET of the statue. There was clear video showing the structure.

Are you familiar with this case in particular? This guy is no schmo looking for 15 minutes of fame, as far as I can tell. He said when he opened up the sewer cover the stench was unbelievable. He was also told he'd better leave India if he wanted to live.

Today was my first exposure to the case (no pun intended), but I linked several articles from various sources, two videos, and his wiki bio. He is the president of Rationalists International. He seems legit and well-respected as far as I can tell.

Yet another article: Jesus wept … oh, it's bad plumbing. Indian rationalist targets 'miracles'
Sanal Edamaruku faces jail for revealing 'tears' trickling down a Mumbai church statue came from clogged drainage pipes

Edamaruku, who has the support of rationalists and atheists such as Richard Dawkins, is well known in India for debunking religious myths, and was already unpopular among Indian Catholics for publicly criticising Mother Teresa's legacy in Kolkata.

When the state "miracle" was pronounced, he went to Mumbai and found that the dripping water was due to clogged drainage pipes behind the wall where it stood. His revelation provoked death threats from religious zealots and ultimately charges of blasphemy under the Indian penal code in the Mumbai high court.

I don't speak Hindi, so I couldn't understand the anchor's description of the event, but it had animated graphical indicators showing where the pipes were, the sewer hole, etc...
whether it was "drainage pipes" or "toilet sewage" is unclear to me.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

To be fair, he didn't say the man was wrong, just that he did not provide any proof to establish his claims.

But, but..yes, he did!!

He showed the crowd, they were there when he exposed the plumbing. He said it was a trap also; that they lured him there, even offered him a "hammer" so he could strike the statue (another illegal act!)...

Here's a speech he gave in Ireland, it's hard for me to understand him because his accent is heavy, but this man certainly DID prove his case.

He's being persecuted by the Church and affiliated organizations (called Forums). When he figured out that it was a trap, he left, anticipating arrest. He's been staying away since.
He was warned he'd better flee or he would not live to see the next day. He fled.

He said "why should I apologize? Why do you WANT me to apologize? I saved you from drinking filthy water, and showed you how it was done." (basically). But yes, it's a PC thing - a PC LAW dating back to 1860 - not to hurt the sentiments of believers.

edit on 7-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

He didn't prove his case in the video you provided. SOme allegations, some hard to see photos, but not proving anything. Regardless, India is not exactly a Christian nation, you can't really complain about the Catholics for the law. I'm glad that in the US, it is not illegal to offend people and I would opine, that this is really more about the lack of fundimental freedoms across the world rather than yet another reason to hate on religions.