Svalbard Might Be Evacuated

Is it just me..or does anyone else think it's insane that we're even talking about time frames and years the Seed Vault may stay viable without power??

Unlike almost anything else, this was made with the express idea that someday, the world may all be going to hell in a hand basket. After all, what other circumstance is most likely to see a need for what they have built in the only publicly known seed vault on Earth?

Did anyone...ever..consider that perhaps building this place with the sole purpose of self sufficiency without outside support of any kind, whatsoever, should have been the first and foremost priority?? I mean, if that meant making it in the Antarctic Central Ridge mountain range because conditions underground there were more favorable without power, so be it.... It's a loooooong trip to restock the vault then, but it's safe.

The best I've noticed so far here is one member suggesting it may store for years without power. I'd feel a lot better knowing it isn't a 'should' or 'may' or 'supposed to' but an absolutely planned for feature of the facility. Errr...... Suddenly, I wish I didn't know this much detail about our last best hope for mankind in somehow our natural stock of food crops is destroyed.

Sounds like a great plan for the elite to survive the 2012 apocalypse. Stage a fire at the coal plant, evacuate the island's residents, and then when December 21st rolls around, you don't have to worry about people destroying the seed vault or looting it in the ensuing panic.

Or maybe there's more than just seeds there... Maybe there's underground bunkers and the elite don't want any resistance from the locals when they arrive by ship and plane...

I find the Svalbard Vault to be a fascinating place, and I'd love to see it.

But it begs a lot of questions. Mainly, for me, I'd be concerned about plants that have evolved over millennia to manage their pollination via insect or bird carriers. And if some weird S does hit the F, and if only humans and the Seed Vault are left, and if we can get to the Seed Vault and if we can then get the seeds transported to somewhere where they'll grow.... (I know, a lot of ifs, but that's how I think, probably my Catholic upbringing).....

How sure are we that these plants, without their non-human pollen carriers, would be able to survive anyway? I know we could probably hand-pollinate, but my God, what a lot of work that would be.

I suppose with any luck, if/when the S hits the F, enough humans will be wiped out as well so we wouldn't have to worry about feeding all of us. Not that we worry about that now, of course.

Sounds convenient. Unless this seed bunker is hidden you are going to get quite a few people banging on the door. Heh, who knows maybe this 2012 Apocalypse will happen. All the underground bunkers suddenly being occupied and now evacuating a area which houses a seed bank.

Well the only thing we can do now is enjoy the ride.

reply to post by Hellmutt


never mind

reply to post by WP4YT

The elite had better include some "useless eaters" who'd know how to farm the earth,some regular folk to manage whatever can be saved,and can WORK,after the S(possibly)HTF.I bet the whole bunch of em together could'nt figure out how to fry an egg or boil water for a cuppa tea,never mind make use of the seeds that's stored,without help from individuals among the rabble they despise.

Originally posted by Hellmutt
The Norwegian article doesn't mention the seed vault, but says that the fire is still not under control, that all available firefighters are currently fighting the flames, and that there are plans to evacuate the island's population, since this plant is the island's sole source of power.

Sure... no one has backup generators in that land-as-cold-as-dry-ice. Why would they? We all know that public utilities are pretty much 100% reliable, right?

The seeds will be fine without power until the end of the world.

What is that, like 13 days from now?

Originally posted by Hellmutt
Maybe the fire is staged, and they just want to get people out of there to make room for the elite?

More like it that they would get everyone out that would be trying to break the door down and get into the vault if something comes from the sky, it is after all a "bunker".

reply to post by intrptr


Temperatures would have to rise to nearly 70 degrees Fahrenheit and be exposed to moisture before they could begin to germinate. I have been saving seeds for years and I have flowers that have grown from 40 year old seeds,from an old friend. I promise that the environment of those seeds was filled with temp fluctuations, exposure to light and humidity, etc. Seeds, for the most part, are pretty resilient.

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen

The seeds will be fine without power until the end of the world.

What is that, like 13 days from now?

Thanks for the chuckle...

Seeds have survived every other "extinction" event for how many millions of centuries? Unless Fuku Rads enter into it, they'll be fine this time too.

reply to post by woodsmom

Temperatures would have to rise to nearly 70 degrees Fahrenheit and be exposed to moisture before they could begin to germinate.

I thought seeds respond to a significant temp change not just 70 degrees? And they have some moisture in them to at least germinate? Of course they would die right away without any external moisture. But then the stock is no good.

I think they want to store the seeds as long as possible not just a few years. I also wonder if they don't rotate out old seeds for new over time to keep the stocks fresh?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

It's a loooooong trip to restock the vault then, but it's safe.

I was thinking that too. If the known world gets destroyed how would anyone know where to find the vault in a thousand years? I don't know where it is and I know about it. Last thing I want to do is paddle my canoe into the arctic to find some bunker filled with old seeds. I'll be to busy propagating plants that survived the epoch.

With a population of somewhere between 1000-2000 people, wouldn't it be interesting to find out that those residents are really undercover special-trained seed-vault guards?

Originally posted by WP4YT
Sounds like a great plan for the elite to survive the 2012 apocalypse. Stage a fire at the coal plant, evacuate the island's residents, and then when December 21st rolls around, you don't have to worry about people destroying the seed vault or looting it in the ensuing panic.

Or maybe there's more than just seeds there... Maybe there's underground bunkers and the elite don't want any resistance from the locals when they arrive by ship and plane...

I was just getting ready to post this and found yours. The first part of your post is what I was thinking, not so sure about the second part.

Originally posted by Hellmutt
As you may know, the "Doomsday Seed Vault" is located on Svalbard (North of Norway). Right now, Svalbards only power plant (coal) is on fire. If it shuts down, Svalbard won't have any power, and in that scenario they will evacuate the island's population (some 2,000 people). Hmmm...

Locally mined coal provides power for refrigeration units that further cool the seeds to the internationally recommended standard −18 °C (0 °F). Even if the equipment fails, at least several weeks will elapse before the temperature rises to the −3 °C (27 °F) of the surrounding sandstone bedrock.

So nothing much to worry about!

I recall a recent thread here that claimed the Russian military has moved a force to the border supposedly to protect the seed bank. It makes you wonder if they plan to take possesion of it if the SHTF.

I hope these geniuses remembered to preserve a few hemp seeds while they were at it.

What? When the world goes to $h!t, I want to still be able to make quality rope and clothing. Geez.

reply to post by intrptr


I have personally stored seed in the most horrendous conditions, and they germinated and grew a full life cycle. You may affect germination rates slightly, and it all depends on the seed as well.
Due to lack of space I had all of my seed stored in my bedroom directly above the woodstove for 2 years,they endured temps of close to 90 degrees, I then moved it into a 55 degree crawlspace. Even with their horrible treatment I had a 90-95 % germination rate from 5 year old seed this last spring. I have also grown Maltese Cross from 40 year old seed that was treated worse than my veggie seeds.

Germination of a seed requires water and warmth to start, the moisture (if any) inside of a seed will not cause it to spontaneously grow. I am sure they are stored to prevent that happening anyway. Otherwise, I would have flowers sprouting everywhere when we get our first spring warm up, and it never happens. Even though I want it to by then.

I think Svalbard will be ok, even with complete power outage. They built it into the permafrost for a reason. For those of you unfamiliar with permafrost, it is an excellent insulator even on the hottest day, and will stay cold enough to protect the seeds. I have dug a trench on a 70 degree May day and found ice crystals that will not immediately melt when exposed to the air, I have to let the ground acclimate before I can start any new beds.

Temperature fluctuations are not the best for any seed, but with the complete stasis that they are putting them in, even that big of a jump should be ok, even for very long term storage. Besides, all they would theoretically need, when and if the time comes to grow them, is a few plants to harvest fresh seed from. It may take an extra growing season to produce an actual crop, but the purpose here is to preserve species, not to feed people.

reply to post by woodsmom

Thank you for relating your experience. I enjoyed reading that. I am somewhat jealous. I used to garden but my lifestyle changed and now I don't have access to a plot of land for that.

So sad...

More power to you Woodsmom