GOP caves, Speaker Boehner says taxes will be raised on the rich

Originally posted by pavil

Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but everyone is going to pay more in taxes and Government is going to have to have drastic cuts happen to balance things out again.

The problem isn't we are taxed too little, it's that our Government spends too much and spends it in foolish wasteful ways.

I agree with the overspending, but the tax increases will not achieve the desired effect. Unfortunately tax increases tend to REDUCE federal income. There is a well established negative correlation especially during bad economic times. None of the projections takes into account the economic contraction that occurs when you raise tax rates. It more than offsets the proposed increases. It's similar in effect to a business setting prices for their products.

If the price is too high, no one buys the product and they receive no money. When taxes are too high people move money and income away from the taxing agencies. The rich who pay the lions share of this can easily move their money overseas. I actually deliberately reduced my income last year to avoid being bumped into a higher tax bracket and losing a bunch of key deductions. That extra money I could have earned would have been paid into the government and could also have been plowed into investments or consumer items.

Here's a chart that shows the effect.
blogs-images.forbes.com...

reply to post by SevenThunders


We are pretty much on the same page I think. Rather then raise taxes to get more revenue, the best way to raise revenue is to have a thriving economy where MORE people are paying taxes without receiving Government assistance and unemployment. I really detest when people say that government handout's to individuals spur our economy. Having those same people working would "spur" the economy much more.

The bad thing about our Government is that whatever money they raise in revenues, they just end up spending it and more. If the Fed wouldn't be buying up all our debt this last year, we would be in panic mode. I have zero faith that if we raise taxes, our elected leaders will trim the budget to the levels it needs to be at.

You're all off. They cut the Federal Government to a skeleton crew. Aint many people working for the US Federal Govt anymore.

Since they've slimmed down the number of people with a Federal Treasury checkbooks its been easier for a few to fill their pockets. The rich getting taxed more solves nothing. The few who are rich will just write themselves bigger checks to make up for the "loss".

You've all been fooled. There's only 1 major Federal Liability right now, the 70 million Baby Boomers needing their SS, Medicare, VA Disability, Federal Retirements, State Retirements.............tactics used against them resulted in most of them checking out before ever collecting.

There's a small group of people swimming in free money right now....they've fooled all of you.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
Really? You've just invented socialism? Congratulations you must be a genius. Too bad it doesn't work and hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried. Maybe the people who aren't being good members of the collective should just be killed or reeducated in the camps. Look up Stalin or Mao, he had a good handle on that concept.

Where did I advocate for communism? Maybe you can't read properly.

You have fallen into the second fallacy of liberalism, namely the idea that man can build a universal utopia by his own efforts. The people who go for this idea are the ones who soon see the need to start killing people in order to realize it. Contrast the man made utopian concept against the teaching of the Bible.

Some communist leaders did kill lots of people, but looking at capitalism and all the horrendous lies it is based on, I think socialism and even communism is way lamer than your capitalist utopia bible believer. How many stupid brainwashed idiots have died as a result of religion?

The Bible teaches that all men have fallen short of God's glory and are desperately wicked and thus inherently selfish. This selfishness is why 50% of the first Puritan colonists died of starvation when they created their ideal communist society in their first colony. Moreover these were people with much better moral training than you or I and probably much better self control. Yet they were not sufficiently motivated to plant and harvest a crop that would be redistributed to everyone. Let the other person do all that hard work.

Sorry but I don't read misinformation. It is a waste of my time and aggrivates me to no avail.

As for the puritans maybe you forgot they were british subjects and had NO INDEPENDENCE, much less practice any economic system.

Are you illiteriate or do you just make up any lies that come along just to push your capitalist utopia?

In the end the commies had to use fear and intimidation to motivate people to work. It wasn't quite as effective as the potential of enormous wealth. So in conclusion capitalism is a lousy immoral system, that is still more effective than all the other lousy economic systems.

No. Capitalism is the second worst after communism in terms of personal responsibility and way worst than the other two in terms of enviromental pollution, wealth accumulation and hoarding, political corruption, etc.

reply to post by Pervius


You are the only one on this site that makes sense, but don't expect any stars.

The more sense you make the less you get, and the less sense you make the more you get.

reply to post by SevenThunders


Christ was not a satanist hell bent on religious domination and using religion to start wars. He was much less a zionist. He spoke out against usury and against the ills of the judaism during his era. Jews were always greedy capitalists.

Unfortunately some people never learn and you are one of them! I consider it disgraceful to use christianity as a way to get infinite wealth and to step on people. I am not even a religious follower/fanatic. Christ would be turning in his grave with people openly advocating sin.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

We are pretty much on the same page I think. Rather then raise taxes to get more revenue, the best way to raise revenue is to have a thriving economy where MORE people are paying taxes without receiving Government assistance and unemployment. I really detest when people say that government handout's to individuals spur our economy. Having those same people working would "spur" the economy much more.

The bad thing about our Government is that whatever money they raise in revenues, they just end up spending it and more. If the Fed wouldn't be buying up all our debt this last year, we would be in panic mode. I have zero faith that if we raise taxes, our elected leaders will trim the budget to the levels it needs to be at.

Yes they do spur the economy because there are no jobs in america and the ones that exist are relatively low pay. Capitalism would have self-destructed much sooner without welfare assistance!

Why are there no jobs in america? It has NOTHING to do with over-regulation or over-taxation. Nothing. Nada. Zilt.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Please throw a HUGE IMO with those kind of statements, cause it is simply your opinion not fact.

and let me know when we see some true capitalism and not cronyism.......as to any socialist / communist society, let me know who is going to run it, because to me the same big money interests are going to run that dog and pony show.

reply to post by pavil


Yup that's how it works. There is no intention to reduce spending. All of the welfare states in the West are on a terminal spending spree. People attribute this to a lack of self control and foresight. Nothing could be further from the truth. The takedown is planned.

Obama sat under the tutelage of communists in academia who spoke of the need to destroy our country by bankrupting the welfare state.
www.discoverthenetworks.org...

While the Marxists, like Obama are convinced that a workers paradise will arise out of the ashes the truth is something more like a fascist police state run by international bankers is the ultimate goal. They intend to push a new worldwide currency after the collapse of the West, that they will control. Everyone will be in debt to the government, controlled by the elite and it will be a police state.

That's the plan anyway. It's just pathetic to see all the liberals accelerating this plan as fast as they are able. When disaster happens they will blame conservatives, christians and conservative jews.

Originally posted by bknapple32


It is happening. I don't know if this has been posted yet. Opinions? I know this will be a heated debate. Im not in favor of socialism, and I dont think Obama is either, But to go back to Clinton rates, will bring the economy back. I fully believe that. The bush tax cuts had their time, and their ramifications, ie the recession of 08. Now its time to try something different. Who knows, it just might work!!!

&action_type_map=[%224576257638669%22%3A%22og.likes%22]&action_ ref_map=[]]www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

You have no idea of the situation we are in if you think just raising rates back the Clinton era will fix the economy.

The Clinton era tax revenue will be eaten up in less than 2 years just from the rising costs of medical care. We are talking about a couple hundred billion dollars is all. Do you realize we just ran a deficit of 172 billion dollars in November alone?

Our Medical system has to be massively overhauled, No I don't mean Obamacare, I mean changed to decrease costs not increase them. Nobody in their right mind actually expects that to happen voluntarily, which means the system has to collapse.

We are headed for a depression soon. There is nothing the politicians or the fed can do to avoid it, and they are running out of ways to stall it as well.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by pavil

 

Yup that's how it works. There is no intention to reduce spending. All of the welfare states in the West are on a terminal spending spree. People attribute this to a lack of self control and foresight. Nothing could be further from the truth. The takedown is planned.

Obama sat under the tutelage of communists in academia who spoke of the need to destroy our country by bankrupting the welfare state.
www.discoverthenetworks.org...

While the Marxists, like Obama are convinced that a workers paradise will arise out of the ashes the truth is something more like a fascist police state run by international bankers is the ultimate goal. They intend to push a new worldwide currency after the collapse of the West, that they will control. Everyone will be in debt to the government, controlled by the elite and it will be a police state.

That's the plan anyway. It's just pathetic to see all the liberals accelerating this plan as fast as they are able. When disaster happens they will blame conservatives, christians and conservative jews.

I comprehend as a republican it is unpopular and self-defeating mentioning all the wars started by republicans and finished by democrats. It is unpopular admitting 9-11-2001 was a false flag to demonise islam and give support to zionism.

I truely do understand your pain. Deflection is necessary to create confusion and obfuscate the truth, isn't it? Please lets not talk about the 2.3 trillion missing from the pentagon either, or how republicans like to gather at bohemian grove each summer to plot their satanic evil.

Let us all sing kumbaya and pretend it is all the work of liberals. Republicans are never at fault for anything, not even trying to dismantle unions. They are saints, aren't they?

/sarcasm and pun!

And if you think I am a democrat, lets just say I call them hypocrites because they are hypocrites. No republican other than ron paul supporters dare criticise the christian right. They are above reproach!

reply to post by Pervius

I'd like to give you a star too, but your first fact seems to be false, and I don't understand the relevance of the second. You may have just found a false source of information, no sweat, it happens all the time.

You're all off. They cut the Federal Government to a skeleton crew. Aint many people working for the US Federal Govt anymore.

Since they've slimmed down the number of people with a Federal Treasury checkbooks

Federal civilian employment has been between 2.6 and 2.7 million each year between 1999 and 2008. In 2009 and 2010 that figure was over 2.77 million. It hasn't been that high since 1996.

Total federal employment in 2009 and 2010 are at their highest levels since 1995.
www.opm.gov...
You can see why I'd question your source.

You've all been fooled. There's only 1 major Federal Liability right now, the 70 million Baby Boomers needing their SS, Medicare, VA Disability, Federal Retirements, State Retirements.............tactics used against them resulted in most of them checking out before ever collecting.

If you call it one major Federal Liability or half a dozen, what's the difference? And how big are these unfunded liabilities?

•Medicare: $24.8 trillion
•Social Security: $21.4 trillion
•Federal debt: $9.4 trillion
•Military retirement/disability benefits: $3.6 trillion
•Federal employee retirement benefits: $2 trillion
•State, local government obligations: $5.2 trillion

blog.heritage.org...
Whether you call it one program or several, it results in each household's share of unfunded libilities at over $500,000.

Now add to that the $16 trillion in current debt, plus the $1 1/2 trillion we're adding to the debt every year and we can see that the solution can't be found in raising taxes alone. "Entitlements," under whatever name, have too be seriously "reformed," under whatever name.

If you take everything that 80 richest people in the US have, homes, stocks, cars, loose change, everything, you'll get $1 trillion. That's not even enough to cover what the government borrows each year.
Forbe's 400

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Your reply is a bit non-sequitur. I don't recall discussing wars in this post. We can go there if you like. Liberals love war, especially when the US loses. Look at Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, Bush and Obama's illegal, unconstitutional undeclared war in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and Syria. Yes Bush was an LBJ liberal, who believed in foreign intervention and big government spending. Most of his neo-con. brain trust came right out of the LBJ administration.

At any rate, these days war is orchestrated by occultist banksters from the city of London inc. Most of the western leaders are puppets who follow their orders. That's the only way I can explain how Pastor Lindsey Williams called the Arab Spring uprising 2 years in advance of it's occurrence.

The tax rate increases and the so called spending reductions are identical to the Greek and Spain austerity packages. Do you think that's a coincidence? It will have the same effect too; massive unemployment, and an economic contraction that results in less government revenue, thereby causing more austerity. The end result is the transfer of everyone's wealth to a few bankers in europe.

But as Jesus said, "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his very soul." I don't think they will get to enjoy their wealth for very long.

reply to post by charles1952


All those unfunded liablities accrued as a result of money being diverted from social services and funneled towards the military and other secret projects. Hint america has overthrown via proxies just about every government on earth. Secondely they fund whomever they want.

We have, I don't know 20 aircraft carriers, destroyers, cruisers, battleships, B-2 stealth bombers, F-117 stealth attack aircraft, f-16, f-14, f-22, tanks, artillery, 3 million soldiers to feed, overseas pay, etc. It adds up. Did I mention nuclear bunkers for the elite? 1/3 of DOD annual budget is black. Trillions missing here and there, some spent and some stolen.

Every nation has social services but they manage to keep things balanced in relation to the military and foreign aid. America is not able to. Hence we have diverted funds and created unfunded liabilities. It is the not american peoples fault and I could not care less about any solution either.

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Your reply is a bit non-sequitur. I don't recall discussing wars in this post. We can go there if you like. Liberals love war, especially when the US loses. Look at Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, Bush and Obama's illegal, unconstitutional undeclared war in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and Syria. Yes Bush was an LBJ liberal, who believed in foreign intervention and big government spending. Most of his neo-con. brain trust came right out of the LBJ administration.

At any rate, these days war is orchestrated by occultist banksters from the city of London inc. Most of the western leaders are puppets who follow their orders. That's the only way I can explain how Pastor Lindsey Williams called the Arab Spring uprising 2 years in advance of it's occurrence.

The tax rate increases and the so called spending reductions are identical to the Greek and Spain austerity packages. Do you think that's a coincidence? It will have the same effect too; massive unemployment, and an economic contraction that results in less government revenue, thereby causing more austerity. The end result is the transfer of everyone's wealth to a few bankers in europe.

But as Jesus said, "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his very soul." I don't think they will get to enjoy their wealth for very long.

edit on 17-12-2012 by SevenThunders because: needs more cow bell

Right. Everyone is a liberal now. Even George Bush sr and jr. Wow. You people never cease to amaze me with your stupidty. So republicans are liberals? WTF are the democrats? Are they conservatives?

Forget it....we are wasting our time!