The diminishing Republican brand.

@tdogrex:
How can the government be a looter? There is a budget deficit. You sound like a smart fella, so I don't have to tell you that that means they spend more than they take in. If I went looting somewhere, and ended up with less than I got in with, I wouldn't consider that a very successfull looting.
I see the republican side as a loose alliance of looters (buy public goods for pennys on the dollar, then charge to taste, privatize profits, socialize losses) and moochers (People who know that their way of life is better, but don't want to go through the hard process of convincing other people, and just use the force of law to do so (Jesus is awesomesauce! and a good number of "I was on foodstamps! has anybody ever helped me? no!")

Originally posted by longlostbrother
And here, you go and find me statistics showing what percentage of people are on permanent welfare, in the US.

then we'll talk.

Numbers can be crunched to say whatever you want them to say.

I live in Cleveland. I see it, I live it....every day. I cannot wait to put this city in my rearview mirror.

I'm sure that there are those who live in Detroit and Chicago and California, etc, that can say the same thing.

When you look at the overall picture rather than selectively, you'll see what I am talking about.

Of course the GOP cannot compete with Modern Liberalism and it's kindergarten like philosophy that everyone is right and everything everyone does is spectacular! You get one cookie, no matter if you take your nap or not. The bully always gets to have their way and the sissy gets their hand held as they cry. Their is no punishment or accountability, because they base reasoning on feelings and emotions, instead of logic...

reply to post by Indigo5


See, you're talking about the looters, not the moochers. Both are bad. And no, I don't hang around either though some are family and others are co-workers. Hell, I've even reported a few and was told to mind my own business.

But thanks for being so snarky. It made my day.

Originally posted by longlostbrother

I do think you're "black or white" reading of people is all sorts of wrong... no one is perfect, ever... he can be better than Romney (duh) and still hugely flawed as a leader (double duh).

Actually I don't see any colors that is what the party loyalist see and in essence why they only see half the truth at best. If they are in the black party than the black party has all the answers and fixes and they can't do any wrong and vice versa. Politics has become a new form of a spectator sport crossed with religion. Your team can't do anything wrong or as you state no one is perfect so we must just accept it unless it comes from the other team.


What I see is logic and dots that I connect together while ignoring what they are telling me. I see that a lobbyist would like nothing more than having power over the consumer and the market. I see no matter who is in power gov't keeps getting bigger and we continue to loose freedom. I see that if you control the RNC and the DNC you in essence have total power. I see that the same issues have existed for numerous decades despite which party has had full control.

More importantly I simply follow the money trail to seek the truth and not my personal ideals when it comes to most things in life that involve billions of dollars.

I accept that no one is perfect and that is why the system is so flawed. Our system allows millions to be thrown legally on a daily basis to our politicians by the special interest groups. So I ask you , do you think Obama or any other politician is perfect or above that temptation? Are there any strings tied to those billions that Obama received from his two campaigns he ran?

I don't blame the politicians and I understand humanity and that is why they vote with the special interest groups in mind because they need their money to survive and the law allows them to be influenced by them. So why wouldn't they side with the hand that feeds them?

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by longlostbrother
And here, you go and find me statistics showing what percentage of people are on permanent welfare, in the US.

then we'll talk.

Numbers can be crunched to say whatever you want them to say.

I live in Cleveland. I see it, I live it....every day. I cannot wait to put this city in my rearview mirror.

I'm sure that there are those who live in Detroit and Chicago and California, etc, that can say the same thing.

When you look at the overall picture rather than selectively, you'll see what I am talking about.

If number can be crunched to paint any picture, then please crunch some numbers and paint me a picture.

Here, go read this:

en.wikipedia.org...

The MAX percentage of people anyone considers to be "welfare dependent" in the US is about 4%.

Unless you can find some contradictory evidence, well... you know... you may need to change your opinion on this one.

The American people are becoming more and more progressive. Hopefully one day the democratic brand will diminish or turn into an actual leftist party.



But bye bye GOP, I will not miss you.

Originally posted by narwahl
@tdogrex:
How can the government be a looter? There is a budget deficit. You sound like a smart fella, so I don't have to tell you that that means they spend more than they take in. If I went looting somewhere, and ended up with less than I got in with, I wouldn't consider that a very successfull looting.

I see the republican side as a loose alliance of looters (buy public goods for pennys on the dollar, then charge to taste, privatize profits, socialize losses) and moochers (People who know that their way of life is better, but don't want to go through the hard process of convincing other people, and just use the force of law to do so (Jesus is awesomesauce! and a good number of "I was on foodstamps! has anybody ever helped me? no!")

Yep, you are pretty close there. But can you say with all certainity that the Government isn't the looters and have been such for decades now? Both Repubs and Dems?

I see them both with a jaundiced eye.

And many do not want to be moochers either but with the way the economy has been going they have been turned into such...often because they thought that the credit would just keep on rollin'.

And there are those who refuse to take lower paying jobs because it "hurts" their status...etc...etc.

I want both parties to crash and burn, just because there is no compromise on either side anymore. They need to go the way of the dinosaur.

reply to post by TDawgRex


I forgot you could tell someone was on welfare just by looking at them.

Ohio has a 3 year welfare limit...and the country has a 5 year federal lifetime limit...soo no way they can stay on it permanently.

Promising to "end welfare as we know it," President Bill Clinton signed legislation in 1996 to abolish Aid To Families With Dependent Children, replacing it with Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. The new program has a strict five-year limit for cash assistance and requirements that recipients work or participate in job-training programs.

A year later, Ohio enacted its version of welfare reform, Ohio Works First, limiting cash assistance to three consecutive years with two more years available after recipients have been off the program for at least two years.

www.dispatch.com...

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by longlostbrother

I do think you're "black or white" reading of people is all sorts of wrong... no one is perfect, ever... he can be better than Romney (duh) and still hugely flawed as a leader (double duh).

Actually I don't see any colors that is what the party loyalist see and in essence why they only see half the truth at best. If they are in the black party than the black party has all the answers and fixes and they can't do any wrong and vice versa. Politics has become a new form of a spectator sport crossed with religion. Your team can't do anything wrong or as you state no one is perfect so we must just accept it unless it comes from the other team.


What I see is logic and dots that I connect together while ignoring what they are telling me. I see that a lobbyist would like nothing more than having power over the consumer and the market. I see no matter who is in power gov't keeps getting bigger and we continue to loose freedom. I see that if you control the RNC and the DNC you in essence have total power. I see that the same issues have existed for numerous decades despite which party has had full control.

More importantly I simply follow the money trail to seek the truth and not my personal ideals when it comes to most things in life that involve billions of dollars.

I accept that no one is perfect and that is why the system is so flawed. Our system allows millions to be thrown legally on a daily basis to our politicians by the special interest groups. So I ask you , do you think Obama or any other politician is perfect or above that temptation? Are there any strings tied to those billions that Obama received from his two campaigns he ran?

I don't blame the politicians and I understand humanity and that is why they vote with the special interest groups in mind because they need their money to survive and the law allows them to be influenced by them. So why wouldn't they side with the hand that feeds them?

Like I said to you last time, I, and I think 99% of Americans, think that all humans are flawed.

Some more than others.

I also think that governement is getting worse, and more corrupt, but see that as primarily the consequence of business interests. And as a consequence of ideologues controlling the parties.Though, that being said, you'd find a lot more insane ideologues in power on the right than the left. The "left" in America is really centrist... not liberal in a real sense.

I also think we probably agree on a lot of things.

My solution would be to have proportional representation. And separate business from governement.

reply to post by longlostbrother


My opinion is worth little in the real world. Some agree with me while others do not. That's cool, I like to hear the other side of the story.

But I have to go to work now and will be back at 'O Dark Thirty to see how this thread is going.

TTYL!

reply to post by longlostbrother


I'm sure we agree on a lot of things and I'm sure in the end we both want what is best for our country.

However, as long as money is the driver and motivation for our politicians we have no hope of representation over the special interest group. In return nothing will change and nothing will get fixed because its not broken for them.

This is what I think that needs to be done to get back control.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lets get a mass media complex that's dedicated to constantly demonizing and smearing the Democrats. We'll see how long it takes for them to become diminished.

Originally posted by PvtHudson
Lets get a mass media complex that's dedicated to constantly demonizing and smearing the Democrats. We'll see how long it takes for them to become diminished.

You got that already. FOX news and all its talk show hosts blast the DEMS. On the left you have MSNBC and its cohorts blasting the Right.

Is an entertaining tennis match that leads to the same results year after year. The players change in the match but the owners of the tennis club stay the same and the spectators keep paying more regardless which player wins.

reply to post by longlostbrother


Awesome thread! Just read through all the pages and wanted to thank you for replacing a lot of silly, emotional myths with cold-hard facts.

reply to post by longlostbrother

Okay, perspective is really an important thing here...and as easy as hyperbole and just ranting is on this, the facts actually speak better for themselves. Obama won key population centers. No question. Obama earned his win. The numbers don't lie and I don't suggest he didn't earn it. However, landslide, this absolutely was not and the people suggesting that .....are ones I wonder for their understanding of the system we actually have in this nation. This is how America voted:

Source

Now that can be looked at as a 'landslide' in a couple different directions...actually...or we can be realistic about things and acknowledge that in almost all counties, both blue and red, the vote totals were far closer to 50/50 than EITHER side would really like to admit. Also...



The House comes up for vote every 2 years. Thats 50% of the House seats at a shot. This isn't a Republican House and Democrat President BY ACCIDENT. The public CHOSE to have a split Government and CHOSE that the President (The stronger of the two in real effect) be a Dem. So the Dems get the right to lead the parade, but the parade is still very much a joint effort, however much some Politicians desperately want to pretend that isn't 100% the case right now.

It was also very nearly the other way on this. Landslide was Reagan. This was not that far outside statistical error on popular count....but certainly all he needed for the legitimate win where it counted in the E.C.. Fair enough. Perspective is everything.

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by PvtHudson
Lets get a mass media complex that's dedicated to constantly demonizing and smearing the Democrats. We'll see how long it takes for them to become diminished.

You got that already. FOX news and all its talk show hosts blast the DEMS. On the left you have MSNBC and its cohorts blasting the Right.

Is an entertaining tennis match that leads to the same results year after year. The players change in the match but the owners of the tennis club stay the same and the spectators keep paying more regardless which player wins.

Rupert is about to get 2 more newspapers for christmas.
anyway: got anything else but evil nasty medai smearing you?
I was under the imperssion that you built that?
Or....
Success: I did it!
Failure: Others did it.
Am i getting close?

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by PvtHudson
Lets get a mass media complex that's dedicated to constantly demonizing and smearing the Democrats. We'll see how long it takes for them to become diminished.

You got that already. FOX news and all its talk show hosts blast the DEMS. On the left you have MSNBC and its cohorts blasting the Right.

Is an entertaining tennis match that leads to the same results year after year. The players change in the match but the owners of the tennis club stay the same and the spectators keep paying more regardless which player wins.

YOu left out ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, tax payer funded PBS & NPR, Hollywood, Comedy Central and dont even get me started on print media.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Okay, perspective is really an important thing here...and as easy as hyperbole and just ranting is on this, the facts actually speak better for themselves. Obama won key population centers. No question. Obama earned his win. The numbers don't lie and I don't suggest he didn't earn it. However, landslide, this absolutely was not and the people suggesting that .....are ones I wonder for their understanding of the system we actually have in this nation. This is how America voted:

Source

Now that can be looked at as a 'landslide' in a couple different directions...actually...or we can be realistic about things and acknowledge that in almost all counties, both blue and red, the vote totals were far closer to 50/50 than EITHER side would really like to admit. Also...

The House comes up for vote every 2 years. Thats 50% of the House seats at a shot. This isn't a Republican House and Democrat President BY ACCIDENT. The public CHOSE to have a split Government and CHOSE that the President (The stronger of the two in real effect) be a Dem. So the Dems get the right to lead the parade, but the parade is still very much a joint effort, however much some Politicians desperately want to pretend that isn't 100% the case right now.

It was also very nearly the other way on this. Landslide was Reagan. This was not that far outside statistical error on popular count....but certainly all he needed for the legitimate win where it counted in the E.C.. Fair enough. Perspective is everything.

edit on 6-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: Added Source

ACTUALLY.

The public didn't choose to have a split governement at all did it?

To make that claim you'd have to go to the congressional races where republicans won and show that they voted for Obama and the Republican congressman at the same time.

What actually happened was the Democrats won pretty much everything they weren't meant to possibly win, and then some:

elections.huffingtonpost.com...

They won all the "Leans Dem" races.

They won 12 of the 17 "tossup" races.

They even won 5 of the "Leans Republican" races.

In all they won eight new seats in the House and two new seats in the Senate.

That is in NO WAY a sign of people wanting a split governement.

Originally posted by PvtHudson

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by PvtHudson
Lets get a mass media complex that's dedicated to constantly demonizing and smearing the Democrats. We'll see how long it takes for them to become diminished.

You got that already. FOX news and all its talk show hosts blast the DEMS. On the left you have MSNBC and its cohorts blasting the Right.

Is an entertaining tennis match that leads to the same results year after year. The players change in the match but the owners of the tennis club stay the same and the spectators keep paying more regardless which player wins.

YOu left out ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, tax payer funded PBS & NPR, Hollywood, Comedy Central and dont even get me started on print media.

Actually:

NPR only gets about 6M of it's 160M budget from tax money:

meta.ath0.com...

PBS gets about 12% of it's funding from the CPB, which is tax payer funded.

However that accounts for, "about 1/100th of a 1%" of the CPB budget.

www.forbes.com...

The board of the CPB is split evenly between the right and the left, btw.

You can believe what you want about the big three, but as a liberal I never watch the news and go, "Hurray, more liberals, spreading my beliefs!"