It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.
page: 9share:
I now at last, have some remarks on that Pf911T video with Rusty Aimer in it :
1. Captain Aimer tells that young pilot that he will program that flight simulator to a speed of 500 Knots and then he must try to recreate that spiralling down and get leveled off out of that, to be able to dive straight lined to the Pentagon west wall.
The recorded end speed in that FDR was 489 Knots at the impact point, not during the spiraling down and along the Sheraton Hotel and over the Navy Annex, and it was still accelerating from the point where it came out of that spiraling flight path at 300 KTS.
It never flew 500 KTS..!
There at that point, just out of that spiral, it flew at a speed of about 300 Knots, You will find in that spiraling down part of this full NTSB AAL 77 animation, a lot of speed data per position in it, during that spiraling down. (The top right dial, in KTS).
2. In this 1:30:00 hrs long NTSB animation (FOIAed) you can see a few of these recorded flight data too :
NTSB AA77 Animation 9/11 Pentagon
www.youtube.com...
But the Warren Stutt FDR flight data of Flight 77 are of course more precise to extract from and have hundreds of other things recorded.
That FDR he decoded with software he wrote himself. I find that quite an achievement.
I'm not aware of anybody else undertaking that task, we should thank Warren for that. I do.
So do understand that Warren did not use the American Airline proprietary SSFDR decoder software they got from Boeing and the FAA when they purchased the aircraft.
Solid State Flight Data Record = SSFDR.
3.
And during that taxiing is the A/P L/C/R also turned off all the way from before departure, after wheels off and until it reached 11,000 feet altitude.
The video uploader of this version, Kevin Smith, shows at the start of that video, that he included already at EDT 12:16:34 that morning's taxiing procedure radio-communication with KIAD Tower at video time 00:00:58 / 1:30:00, of the departure taxiing of AAL 77 to runway 30 on 9/11/2001. At 0:04:07 you see the pilot increasing the thrust of both jet engines (N1 LR bottom left indicator) and then the plane lifts off and turns left to heading 270. A/P L-C-R is off. It climbs to 5,000 feet. Then to 11,000 feet and 17,000 feet and levels off at 29,000 feet..
Then at 12,604 feet altitude, 318 KTS, heading 276, EDT 12:25:37 (video 0:10:02) something strange appears. AAL77 radios : twenty six five American seventy seven thank you maam good day.
Some of my keen readers will notice in those two sentences two possible very disturbing discrepancies.
1. Captain Aimer tells that young pilot that he will program that flight simulator to a speed of 500 Knots and then he must try to recreate that spiralling down and get leveled off out of that, to be able to dive straight lined to the Pentagon west wall.
The recorded end speed in that FDR was 489 Knots at the impact point, not during the spiraling down and along the Sheraton Hotel and over the Navy Annex, and it was still accelerating from the point where it came out of that spiraling flight path at 300 KTS.
It never flew 500 KTS..!
There at that point, just out of that spiral, it flew at a speed of about 300 Knots, You will find in that spiraling down part of this full NTSB AAL 77 animation, a lot of speed data per position in it, during that spiraling down. (The top right dial, in KTS).
2. In this 1:30:00 hrs long NTSB animation (FOIAed) you can see a few of these recorded flight data too :
NTSB AA77 Animation 9/11 Pentagon
www.youtube.com...
But the Warren Stutt FDR flight data of Flight 77 are of course more precise to extract from and have hundreds of other things recorded.
That FDR he decoded with software he wrote himself. I find that quite an achievement.
I'm not aware of anybody else undertaking that task, we should thank Warren for that. I do.
So do understand that Warren did not use the American Airline proprietary SSFDR decoder software they got from Boeing and the FAA when they purchased the aircraft.
Solid State Flight Data Record = SSFDR.
3.
767Captain : And, the other red herring, about the speed at near sea level. Aerodynamically, what is most restricting is the Mach number. Especially for that civil airliner, nearing Mach 1.
At near sea level, even 500 MPH is no where near Mach 1. Video stops at 462 kts, and it was still accelerating....but, that speed was brief. About M.70, Vmo is .86!
Instead of "EDT" it is indicating UTC. Universal Coordinated Time, or same as "GMT" for you non-aviation types.
This is the FULL SSFDR record, as you can see, from just as AAL 77 was taxiing into position for take-off, at KIAD (Dulles). Until the recording ended.
What is more, the SSFDR records somewhere around 20 - 22 hours of data. Only the pertinent info is presented, here of course.
And during that taxiing is the A/P L/C/R also turned off all the way from before departure, after wheels off and until it reached 11,000 feet altitude.
The video uploader of this version, Kevin Smith, shows at the start of that video, that he included already at EDT 12:16:34 that morning's taxiing procedure radio-communication with KIAD Tower at video time 00:00:58 / 1:30:00, of the departure taxiing of AAL 77 to runway 30 on 9/11/2001. At 0:04:07 you see the pilot increasing the thrust of both jet engines (N1 LR bottom left indicator) and then the plane lifts off and turns left to heading 270. A/P L-C-R is off. It climbs to 5,000 feet. Then to 11,000 feet and 17,000 feet and levels off at 29,000 feet..
Then at 12,604 feet altitude, 318 KTS, heading 276, EDT 12:25:37 (video 0:10:02) something strange appears. AAL77 radios : twenty six five American seventy seven thank you maam good day.
Some of my keen readers will notice in those two sentences two possible very disturbing discrepancies.
One discrepancy could be, that that pilot radios through to LINDEN tower, a cockpit clock time of EDT (12) : 26 : 5(0), while the NTSB animated screen
clock reads EDT (12) : 25 : 3(7)... !
That means that the NTSB guys have not noticed that.
Or Kevin Smith did not align the radio communications with the ground facilities in the right order with the NTSB animation.
I know that the NTSB later corrected the EDT times from the FDR with an additional 25 seconds.
But these show 60 - 37 = 23 secs plus at least 50 secs = 73 seconds discrepancy.
Has the uploader, Kevin, thus also added an additional 73 - 25 = 48 seconds fault to the shown radioing time by the pilot?
It doesn't seem so, since there are just a few seconds between the runway clearance and departure acknowledge radio message from Dulles Tower to AAL 77, and the pilot pushing full throttle on both engines, which would make the EDT and cockpit time difference just 3 secs less, making it still a 70 seconds discrepancy, which is disturbingly much.
70 Seconds difference for the cockpit clock EDT time and with the ground facilities EDT time, not 25 seconds according to the NTSB, that's shocking, an additional 45 seconds times fault in that FDR...? Full 70 seconds dikfference?
I can't immagine such professional people as working at the NTSB, negating such grave faults?
Another discrepency could be that the pilot did not radio-in the EDT 26:5 time, but a heading of 265.
But the heading in the preceding 20 seconds is at a steady 276..! Pilots do not make that kind of mistakes.
Nor could he make another eventual mistake by saying "twenty six five" when meaning to say twelve six o five, which is the altitude at that moment.
That means that the NTSB guys have not noticed that.
Or Kevin Smith did not align the radio communications with the ground facilities in the right order with the NTSB animation.
I know that the NTSB later corrected the EDT times from the FDR with an additional 25 seconds.
But these show 60 - 37 = 23 secs plus at least 50 secs = 73 seconds discrepancy.
Has the uploader, Kevin, thus also added an additional 73 - 25 = 48 seconds fault to the shown radioing time by the pilot?
It doesn't seem so, since there are just a few seconds between the runway clearance and departure acknowledge radio message from Dulles Tower to AAL 77, and the pilot pushing full throttle on both engines, which would make the EDT and cockpit time difference just 3 secs less, making it still a 70 seconds discrepancy, which is disturbingly much.
70 Seconds difference for the cockpit clock EDT time and with the ground facilities EDT time, not 25 seconds according to the NTSB, that's shocking, an additional 45 seconds times fault in that FDR...? Full 70 seconds dikfference?
I can't immagine such professional people as working at the NTSB, negating such grave faults?
Another discrepency could be that the pilot did not radio-in the EDT 26:5 time, but a heading of 265.
But the heading in the preceding 20 seconds is at a steady 276..! Pilots do not make that kind of mistakes.
Nor could he make another eventual mistake by saying "twenty six five" when meaning to say twelve six o five, which is the altitude at that moment.
At EDT 12:25:49 and at 13,000 feet, 321 KTS, the co-pilot switched his autopilot function on. (A/P-R(ight) color bar switched from white to green).
A/P L and C stay white, not engaged.
He entered of course first a flight path to his destination in the autopilot software, with a lot of additional flight and arrival data.
Engines were kept at full thrust and steady climbing to 17,000 feet. During the same time that he radios to Washington Center this : '' center, American seventy seven with you, passing one three decimal (LT:13,000 feet), to one seven thousand(LT:17,000 feet) ''.
That evidenced that his last radio message above, did not indicate altitude. It must be the time.
He entered of course first a flight path to his destination in the autopilot software, with a lot of additional flight and arrival data.
Engines were kept at full thrust and steady climbing to 17,000 feet. During the same time that he radios to Washington Center this : '' center, American seventy seven with you, passing one three decimal (LT:13,000 feet), to one seven thousand(LT:17,000 feet) ''.
That evidenced that his last radio message above, did not indicate altitude. It must be the time.
The auto-pilot then does not correct the heading to 270 as the flight controller sugested, but stays on the 274, 275 and even up to 280 heading, as we
see, and also overshoots his plafond of 17,000 feet altitude over 18,000 feet in the next minute, while the Washington Center flight controller told
him to set on a heading of 270 and maintain level at 17,000 feet.
Then at EDT 12:28:00 the plane suddenly starts leveling at 18,000 feet at 322 KTS and 280 heading and still full thrust. That was no pilot input, perhaps an air turbulance. ( Or...? ).
Then it steadily moves higher, over 24,109 feet, when W.Center tells him to contact the next flight control center at their 133.27 frequency.
At exactly 29,000 feet, EDT 12:33:26 the right-autopilot slowly decreased the two engines thrust to about 87.5 %.
From EDT 12:34:10 on, the autopilot is clearly trying to level the plane at exactly 29,000 feet.
Then 7 secs later, RO3 Center radios-in that the pilot must turn a twenty degrees right vector for his climb.
Then at EDT 12:28:00 the plane suddenly starts leveling at 18,000 feet at 322 KTS and 280 heading and still full thrust. That was no pilot input, perhaps an air turbulance. ( Or...? ).
Then it steadily moves higher, over 24,109 feet, when W.Center tells him to contact the next flight control center at their 133.27 frequency.
At exactly 29,000 feet, EDT 12:33:26 the right-autopilot slowly decreased the two engines thrust to about 87.5 %.
From EDT 12:34:10 on, the autopilot is clearly trying to level the plane at exactly 29,000 feet.
Then 7 secs later, RO3 Center radios-in that the pilot must turn a twenty degrees right vector for his climb.
The steering column is in a slightly right leaning position during all this time, which could indicate a wind force coming from the right of the
plane's longitudinal center beam.
Which means that when the plane makes that U-turn and returns to the Washington area, that steering column should lean exactly to the opposite side, if that wind theory would be right. We will now quickly look that up.
It does not show that behavior, the rudder is used during the first six minutes of that whole flight, then shortly sparingly, but it stays in the same position while the autopilot is working, when heading westwards, but also in the SAME position DURING and after that U-turn and now heading back eastwards !
In fact during all the time that the autopilot functions are engaged, but surprisingly also after that point in time that the autopilot was turned off, just before going into that spiraling down maneuver, you see only very slight rudder movements and steering column movements. And also all the way straight in to the Pentagon west wall. Being influenced by inevitable slight ground effect influences, where the rudder however never reacts on.
Does that autopilot only make use of the ailerons? Then that U-turn at half time in the flight, must have been a soft and broad one, no rudder movements at all observable. Thus only executed by means of the ailerons.
That seems to me also the case during that spiral down, where HOWEVER all three of the autopilots were off all the time up till impact point. Thus that must have been executed by a rookie pilot at best as we are told, making however a textbook executed smooth spiral down in a one kilometer high airspace. At speeds from 265 up to 277 KTS. And only in the last one fifth of that spiral, the speeds go up to 300 KTS when aligning to the west wall in that straight downhill descend.
No where in that spiral are speeds to be found like 500 KTS or MPH as used by Rusty Aimer from Pf911Truth its You Tube video.
At EDT 13:07:48 that right autopilot system is switched off, no autopilot up till EDT 13:10:06. Around this time some strong Rudder movements can be seen. And the left autopilot is turned on, with an unknown flight path inserted. Unknown, since that right autopilot was switched off again at EDT 13:28:50, never to be turned on again.
The rest of the flight time that plane was flown manually. Including that wide spiral down and the run at the west wall at fast increasing speeds and at fast decreasing altitudes.
But the vertical aceleration chart of the last 6 seconds that I posted above could indicate heavy, very fast up- and down steering column movements.
Which are however not to be found in these last 6 seconds of that FDR decoded by Warren Stutt, where you can find those fast climbing and falling G-forces on the plane its body. While the horizontal G-forces stay identical all the time, untill impact, then that also jumps down to a strong negative G-force.
Houston, do we have a PROBLEM?
I don"t think so.
Which means that when the plane makes that U-turn and returns to the Washington area, that steering column should lean exactly to the opposite side, if that wind theory would be right. We will now quickly look that up.
It does not show that behavior, the rudder is used during the first six minutes of that whole flight, then shortly sparingly, but it stays in the same position while the autopilot is working, when heading westwards, but also in the SAME position DURING and after that U-turn and now heading back eastwards !
In fact during all the time that the autopilot functions are engaged, but surprisingly also after that point in time that the autopilot was turned off, just before going into that spiraling down maneuver, you see only very slight rudder movements and steering column movements. And also all the way straight in to the Pentagon west wall. Being influenced by inevitable slight ground effect influences, where the rudder however never reacts on.
Does that autopilot only make use of the ailerons? Then that U-turn at half time in the flight, must have been a soft and broad one, no rudder movements at all observable. Thus only executed by means of the ailerons.
That seems to me also the case during that spiral down, where HOWEVER all three of the autopilots were off all the time up till impact point. Thus that must have been executed by a rookie pilot at best as we are told, making however a textbook executed smooth spiral down in a one kilometer high airspace. At speeds from 265 up to 277 KTS. And only in the last one fifth of that spiral, the speeds go up to 300 KTS when aligning to the west wall in that straight downhill descend.
No where in that spiral are speeds to be found like 500 KTS or MPH as used by Rusty Aimer from Pf911Truth its You Tube video.
At EDT 13:07:48 that right autopilot system is switched off, no autopilot up till EDT 13:10:06. Around this time some strong Rudder movements can be seen. And the left autopilot is turned on, with an unknown flight path inserted. Unknown, since that right autopilot was switched off again at EDT 13:28:50, never to be turned on again.
The rest of the flight time that plane was flown manually. Including that wide spiral down and the run at the west wall at fast increasing speeds and at fast decreasing altitudes.
But the vertical aceleration chart of the last 6 seconds that I posted above could indicate heavy, very fast up- and down steering column movements.
Which are however not to be found in these last 6 seconds of that FDR decoded by Warren Stutt, where you can find those fast climbing and falling G-forces on the plane its body. While the horizontal G-forces stay identical all the time, untill impact, then that also jumps down to a strong negative G-force.
Houston, do we have a PROBLEM?
I don"t think so.
The pilots over there at Pf911Truth are using VERY VERY exagerated speed figures in their socalled "recreated" AAL 77 spiral down flight path in
their hired flight simulator video at You Tube. That is very bad online behavior, and they should be prosecuted for using such shameless lies to
convince the online auditorium of their pet theory of a Pentagon fly-over.
Rusty Aimer talks about : "speed this up to 500 KTS".....at 2.25 / 4:56 in this below video, and about 311 KTS here at 3:11 and about 360 KTS here at 3:24 and about 424 KTS here at 3:27 and about "there's 500 Knots" here at 3:40 in his below video.
While the above posted NTSB animation shows only moderate flight speeds for AAL 77, at 25 % jet engines thrust, between 300 KTS at the start of the spiral, then slowing down via 290 to 280 to 265, and slowly up again to 272 and 280 KTS in nearly all of that spiral, and just 300 KTS when coming out of that spiral, in the last 5 seconds of that spiral.
This is the fabricated Rusty Aimer video again :
Simulator Recreation Demonstrates Pentagon Attack Impossibility :
www.youtube.com...
I now convinced myself by looking much deeper in that NTSB recreation, that one should not expect the same scientific honesty from online entities, as has been taught to me very long ago, to be the main pillar of honest research.
As usual, one should only trust oneselfs research.
How can a pilot in uniform like Rusty, and a forum-tirant pilot like Rob, look in the mirror each morning and be able to live with the lies they spread ? Because they know they lie, since they must have studied that NTSB animation together with those FDR data read-outs.
They should be removed from the Internet.
Rusty Aimer talks about : "speed this up to 500 KTS".....at 2.25 / 4:56 in this below video, and about 311 KTS here at 3:11 and about 360 KTS here at 3:24 and about 424 KTS here at 3:27 and about "there's 500 Knots" here at 3:40 in his below video.
While the above posted NTSB animation shows only moderate flight speeds for AAL 77, at 25 % jet engines thrust, between 300 KTS at the start of the spiral, then slowing down via 290 to 280 to 265, and slowly up again to 272 and 280 KTS in nearly all of that spiral, and just 300 KTS when coming out of that spiral, in the last 5 seconds of that spiral.
This is the fabricated Rusty Aimer video again :
Simulator Recreation Demonstrates Pentagon Attack Impossibility :
www.youtube.com...
I now convinced myself by looking much deeper in that NTSB recreation, that one should not expect the same scientific honesty from online entities, as has been taught to me very long ago, to be the main pillar of honest research.
As usual, one should only trust oneselfs research.
How can a pilot in uniform like Rusty, and a forum-tirant pilot like Rob, look in the mirror each morning and be able to live with the lies they spread ? Because they know they lie, since they must have studied that NTSB animation together with those FDR data read-outs.
They should be removed from the Internet.
This Kevin Smith says online that he got that NTSB animation via a FOIA request, so I really start wondering which FDR and NTSB data those people over
at Pf911Truth are using.
Have they been fed with false data? Their US-postal packages switched for false ones at the distribution centers?
Rob Balsamo : in that same video at 4:08 he explanes to former governor and former "wrestler" Jesse Ventura, that "its not even professional opinion, it's based on facts and data".......
One word : Shameless.
PS : to be sure, I searched for another online NTSB animation video, and found this one from John DoeX, a member of the Pf911Truth forum, who uploaded the last part of the animation on 24 Aug 2006, this video starting its part of that same NTSB animation a few seconds before entering that spiral down at 300 KTS. And no autopilots switched on. It is the same, partial (4:22) but identical animation as the much longer one (1:30:01) from Kevin Smith.
So they should clearly know they use far exagerated numbers in their false reports.
American 77 Final Maneuver
www.youtube.com...
So, again, shameless.
The sad thing is, I fell for it at first instant. Just as so many others, believing that professional pilots could be trusted when they offer "data and facts".
Have they been fed with false data? Their US-postal packages switched for false ones at the distribution centers?
Rob Balsamo : in that same video at 4:08 he explanes to former governor and former "wrestler" Jesse Ventura, that "its not even professional opinion, it's based on facts and data".......
One word : Shameless.
PS : to be sure, I searched for another online NTSB animation video, and found this one from John DoeX, a member of the Pf911Truth forum, who uploaded the last part of the animation on 24 Aug 2006, this video starting its part of that same NTSB animation a few seconds before entering that spiral down at 300 KTS. And no autopilots switched on. It is the same, partial (4:22) but identical animation as the much longer one (1:30:01) from Kevin Smith.
So they should clearly know they use far exagerated numbers in their false reports.
American 77 Final Maneuver
www.youtube.com...
So, again, shameless.
The sad thing is, I fell for it at first instant. Just as so many others, believing that professional pilots could be trusted when they offer "data and facts".
edit on 7/9/13 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by LaBTop
Then at EDT 12:28:00 the plane suddenly starts leveling at 18,000 feet at 322 KTS and 280 heading and still full thrust. That was no pilot input, perhaps an air turbulence. ( Or...? ).
CORRECTION, that was a pilot input.
He must have typed in the standard procedure pressure of 29.92 inch Hg when passing the 18,000 feet boundary (FL 180). In those moments we see that altitude meter-needle react on that pilot typing and ENTERing that new input in the autopilot software, by suddenly falling back to exactly 18,000.
The CSV-file that accompanied the FDR , when that was send after the first FOIA requests, indicates that the pilot changed the altimeter-setting in the Baro Cor(rection) CSV-column while ascending upwards through that FL180 boundary, and the short altitude meter-needle fall-back in that NTSB-animation thus indicates that this FAA regulation standard procedure was followed by the original pilots.
Let's see if I can find the same altitude meter-needle hick-up caused by this standard pressure correction-procedure when descending through 18,000 feet back again, somewhere later in this NTSB animation.
Or an earlier or later than FL 180 pressure correction by one of the hijacker pilots.
This will surely take me quite some time. I have to be very concentrated, I expect, to be able to notice such a small needle movement again. In that remaining approximately one hour of flight time.
Every pilot, so for sure also one who's type rated for wide body airplanes will ALWAYS do this, otherwise his Barometric pressure altitude-meter readings during landing procedures will not reflect True Altitude above ground.
And that's the one he relies on heavily while landing just before wheels touchdown. All the way in over any flat surface like grass, sand or water in front of an airport runway.
The Radio Altimeter readings are only used by him in the last seconds before actually landing, as a secondary reference, since that one can be influenced by trees, bushes, cars, boats, poles, animals, birds, people, which it records as lower heights, measured by that RadAlt meter from under the plane's belly, which at that measuring moment thus reports a lower landing height than actually exist under the aluminum belly-plating of the then nearly landing plane.
EDIT : If I can find such a discrepancy in the altitude meter needle reading in that remaining part of the NTSB animation, then that will raise this question :
How and from whom did the hijackers in that case, thus get the real barometric pressure on the ground at the Pentagon, to be able to use and rely on the altitude meter? An assisting planner on the ground near the Pentagon or near Reagan Airport.? Or did (and could) they listen in to Reagan Airport communications with other nearby aircraft, intending to land at Reagan Airport? Using a HAM radio perhaps?
edit on 8/9/13 by LaBTop because:
see EDIT.
Originally posted by LaBTop
At 0:04:07 you see the pilot increasing the thrust of both jet engines (N1 LR bottom left indicator) and then the plane lifts off and turns left to heading 270. A/P L-C-R is off. It climbs to 5,000 feet. Then to 11,000 feet and 17,000 feet and levels off at 29,000 feet..
Then at 12,604 feet altitude, 318 KTS, heading 276, EDT 12:25:37 (video 0:10:02) something strange appears. AAL77 radios : twenty six five, American seventy seven, thank you ma'am, good day.
--snip--
One discrepancy could be, that that pilot radios through to LINDEN tower, a cockpit clock time of EDT (12) : 26 : 5(0), while the NTSB animated screen clock reads EDT (12) : 25 : 3(7)... .
That is typed out :
AAL77 : 265, AAL77 etc.
At EDT 12:40:07 the RO3 flight controller hands AAL77 over to Indy Center
at 33,003 feet altitude, 292 KTS, heading 272, EDT 12:40:07 (video 0:24:31) :
"American seventy seven, contact Indy center, one two zero point two seven."
and AAL77 answers :
" Twenty five seven, American seventy seven, thank you sir, good day."
That is typed out :
RO3 : AAL77, contact Indy center at a frequency of 120.27
AAL77 : 257, AAL77 etc.
CORRECTION : So, those 265 and 257 remarks do not seem to indicate EDT time stamps or such thing. What does it mean then? I'll try to find out.
Just before that, at EDT 12:39:31 the RO3 flight controller tells AAL77 about another plane in its vicinity, while the animation meters show :
32,646 feet altitude, 295 KTS, heading 271, EDT 12:39:31 (video 0:23:55) :
RO3 : "American seventy seven, around your altitude, maintain flight level, three three zero, for traffic."
And AAL77 answers 1 second later that he will level off at 33,000 feet :
AAL77 : "American seventy seven, stop at three three zero."
Then at EDT 12:40:13 AAL77 radios to RO3 center :
AAL77 : "center American seventy seven with you level three three zero."
Then at EDT 12:40:16 another controller, which ID I can"t read correct, looks like HQt :
HQt: "American seventy seven, Indy center, roger, squawk..three seven four three."
and AAL77 acknowledged that 1 second later.
Then at video time 0:25:13 the video "sparks" and gets dark, then at 0:25:14 a purple band can be seen at the bottom of my screen, and at the top of that band I see to the left of the EDT 12:40:20(or?) another EDT, reading 12:40:50.
edit on 9/9/13 by LaBTop because: Fourth addition. Cleaned up all edits.
reply to post by LaBTop
At video time 0:52:13 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:07:49,
at an altitude reading of 24885 ft, (in the second before) first the LR engines thrusts handles are moved down from 75 % to 63 % and then the Right Autopilot function is switched off. (switched from a green block to a white block)
Speed is 281 KTS, thrust is about 63 % both left and right jet engines, heading is 084, on its way back to the Washington area.
In the next 24 seconds up to EDT 13:08:13 the thrust handles are lowered from 64% to L-47% and R-48%, while the speed decreases to 276 KTS, a possible indication of a human hand.
In the next seconds follows one sudden right-wards rudder movement, then at EDT 13:08:44 the rudder/steering column is pushed forward/up and slightly left, then right. Engines thrust is now equal. Then the rudder column is pushed strongly rightwards to correct the plane's wings back to a horizontal position at EDT 13:08:50.
At video time 0:53:21 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:08:56,
at an altitude reading of 22213 ft, there's a short 1 second hick-up in the altitude meter needle movement. (no A/P L C R),
The needle suddenly stops moving anticlockwise (counting alt.feet down), as it consistently did in the preceding minutes while the right autopilot function was smoothly decreasing the plane's altitude downwards from 33000 ft.
Two seconds later the steering column is pushed hard right and moved slightly towards the pilot.
The plane reacts by wobbling a bit left to right and back, while also lifting its nose up and down again.
At the one second of video time 0:53:31 to :32 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:09:07 another altitude needle hick-up occurs. Lasting from :07 to :09.
The problem is however, that the EDT time meter does NOT SHOW the :08 second, whatever slowdown of the animation I tried. The video time meter however changes from :31 to :32 WITHOUT the EDT counter as to be expected, adding the next one second to it !
During the EDT :07 second, altitude changes from 21791 to 21790 to 21786 - ft. (video time 0:53:31)
There is no EDT 13:09:08 second at all !
At the very start of the EDT :09 second, the altitude is 21772 ft.
That's a sudden drop of 14 feet in that missing :08 second.
Just fast click on that PLAY-PAUSE button, to see for yourself that the EDT clock jumps from :07 to :09 without ever showing that :08 one second period.
At video time 0:52:13 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:07:49,
at an altitude reading of 24885 ft, (in the second before) first the LR engines thrusts handles are moved down from 75 % to 63 % and then the Right Autopilot function is switched off. (switched from a green block to a white block)
Speed is 281 KTS, thrust is about 63 % both left and right jet engines, heading is 084, on its way back to the Washington area.
In the next 24 seconds up to EDT 13:08:13 the thrust handles are lowered from 64% to L-47% and R-48%, while the speed decreases to 276 KTS, a possible indication of a human hand.
In the next seconds follows one sudden right-wards rudder movement, then at EDT 13:08:44 the rudder/steering column is pushed forward/up and slightly left, then right. Engines thrust is now equal. Then the rudder column is pushed strongly rightwards to correct the plane's wings back to a horizontal position at EDT 13:08:50.
At video time 0:53:21 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:08:56,
at an altitude reading of 22213 ft, there's a short 1 second hick-up in the altitude meter needle movement. (no A/P L C R),
The needle suddenly stops moving anticlockwise (counting alt.feet down), as it consistently did in the preceding minutes while the right autopilot function was smoothly decreasing the plane's altitude downwards from 33000 ft.
Two seconds later the steering column is pushed hard right and moved slightly towards the pilot.
The plane reacts by wobbling a bit left to right and back, while also lifting its nose up and down again.
At the one second of video time 0:53:31 to :32 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:09:07 another altitude needle hick-up occurs. Lasting from :07 to :09.
The problem is however, that the EDT time meter does NOT SHOW the :08 second, whatever slowdown of the animation I tried. The video time meter however changes from :31 to :32 WITHOUT the EDT counter as to be expected, adding the next one second to it !
During the EDT :07 second, altitude changes from 21791 to 21790 to 21786 - ft. (video time 0:53:31)
There is no EDT 13:09:08 second at all !
At the very start of the EDT :09 second, the altitude is 21772 ft.
That's a sudden drop of 14 feet in that missing :08 second.
Just fast click on that PLAY-PAUSE button, to see for yourself that the EDT clock jumps from :07 to :09 without ever showing that :08 one second period.
edit on 15/9/13 by LaBTop because: Added NTSB animation link at EDT 13:09:07
reply to post by LaBTop
To begin with, that FDR has missing seconds of data. In one second of that FDR, hundreds of data read outs are registered. How can they suddenly get lost, missing, erased, tampered with.
It could indicate a few things.
1. That NTSB animation is tampered with. And this moment indicates the FDR time stamp from where they started to falsify the rest of that FDR. However it could be just as possible that they took the whole FDR and changed only the relevant pieces in it. Relevant to fit the official story board.
2. The missing one second shows the hijacker-pilot's premature (far above FL180 = 18000 ft) setting of the real barometric pressure at the Pentagon.
But the drop in altitude is far too small to reflect a change from the standard procedure FL180 altitude upward passing-through baro pressure setting reset of 1013.3 HPa (29.92 inch Hg) baro pressure, to the R. Reagan Airport (1 mile from the Pentagon west wall) actual baro pressure of 1023.4 HPa (30.22 inch Hg) at that time of that unforgettable 9-11-2001 day.
(All pilots worldwide have to change their barometer settings when passing up, or down, through the 18000 feet altitude border)
How could the hijackers knew this pressure at that time and that far from R. Reagan Airport. The nearest Flight Control center was INDY (Indianapolis) as can be seen a few minutes before when they asked AAL 77 to contact them.
Or did they measure the ground-level pressure just before or at departure with their own barometer. Or just asked for the Dulles and R.Reagan Airport baro pressures at departure time?
But they still needed to know the temperature change (which was +7 C or +12.6 F) at their intended point of arrival (the impact) to let the on-board software calculate the correct and precise baro pressure there, so the plane could be flown with any chance of success a few feet above the Pentagon lawn in front of its west wall.
3. I am convinced that that plane was flown remotely, to ever have been able to fly with such precision over that Pentagon lawn.
So this hick-up and missing second is for me an additional strong indication that this was the moment during the hijacking, that the real PLANNERS took over from the pilots or (if they ever existed) hijacker-pilots, and let their software take over the plane.
All depending on the assumption that big chunks of that "recovered" FDR were genuine, and only a small part of that FDR was tampered with. Meaning that all those earlier recorded flights in that FDR were genuine, and the first 53 minutes and 31 seconds of AAL 77's 9/11 flight also.
Then the military top took over. Or the Secret Service, or the CIA, or the NSA, or the Israeli's, or the 7 Families, or ......whatever evil rules the daily show nowadays.
To begin with, that FDR has missing seconds of data. In one second of that FDR, hundreds of data read outs are registered. How can they suddenly get lost, missing, erased, tampered with.
It could indicate a few things.
1. That NTSB animation is tampered with. And this moment indicates the FDR time stamp from where they started to falsify the rest of that FDR. However it could be just as possible that they took the whole FDR and changed only the relevant pieces in it. Relevant to fit the official story board.
2. The missing one second shows the hijacker-pilot's premature (far above FL180 = 18000 ft) setting of the real barometric pressure at the Pentagon.
But the drop in altitude is far too small to reflect a change from the standard procedure FL180 altitude upward passing-through baro pressure setting reset of 1013.3 HPa (29.92 inch Hg) baro pressure, to the R. Reagan Airport (1 mile from the Pentagon west wall) actual baro pressure of 1023.4 HPa (30.22 inch Hg) at that time of that unforgettable 9-11-2001 day.
(All pilots worldwide have to change their barometer settings when passing up, or down, through the 18000 feet altitude border)
How could the hijackers knew this pressure at that time and that far from R. Reagan Airport. The nearest Flight Control center was INDY (Indianapolis) as can be seen a few minutes before when they asked AAL 77 to contact them.
Or did they measure the ground-level pressure just before or at departure with their own barometer. Or just asked for the Dulles and R.Reagan Airport baro pressures at departure time?
But they still needed to know the temperature change (which was +7 C or +12.6 F) at their intended point of arrival (the impact) to let the on-board software calculate the correct and precise baro pressure there, so the plane could be flown with any chance of success a few feet above the Pentagon lawn in front of its west wall.
3. I am convinced that that plane was flown remotely, to ever have been able to fly with such precision over that Pentagon lawn.
So this hick-up and missing second is for me an additional strong indication that this was the moment during the hijacking, that the real PLANNERS took over from the pilots or (if they ever existed) hijacker-pilots, and let their software take over the plane.
All depending on the assumption that big chunks of that "recovered" FDR were genuine, and only a small part of that FDR was tampered with. Meaning that all those earlier recorded flights in that FDR were genuine, and the first 53 minutes and 31 seconds of AAL 77's 9/11 flight also.
Then the military top took over. Or the Secret Service, or the CIA, or the NSA, or the Israeli's, or the 7 Families, or ......whatever evil rules the daily show nowadays.
edit on 15/9/13 by LaBTop because: Typo's.
You have to realize that this is a very important lost second.
If even more of those can be found in this NTSB animation, and it can be evidenced that they correlate to identical lost seconds in the FDR comma separated files available on-line at several websites, then we have a plane's FDR, stopping all data-collecting at about 100 to 150 meters in front of the impact point. You know what that means.
Warren Stutt's recovered extra 4 to 6 FDR seconds become very suspicious indeed then.
Because they indicate a sudden acceleration drop in the last data blocks of the last second. To him that means that it shows nose cone and cockpit impact.
So, compare these NTSB timestamps with FDR timestamped data blocks, and see if the same second worth of data is missing in there....
If so, the NTSB has a lot to explain. One second already comprehends a plethora of lost data.
Or erased data...
If even more of those can be found in this NTSB animation, and it can be evidenced that they correlate to identical lost seconds in the FDR comma separated files available on-line at several websites, then we have a plane's FDR, stopping all data-collecting at about 100 to 150 meters in front of the impact point. You know what that means.
Warren Stutt's recovered extra 4 to 6 FDR seconds become very suspicious indeed then.
Because they indicate a sudden acceleration drop in the last data blocks of the last second. To him that means that it shows nose cone and cockpit impact.
So, compare these NTSB timestamps with FDR timestamped data blocks, and see if the same second worth of data is missing in there....
If so, the NTSB has a lot to explain. One second already comprehends a plethora of lost data.
Or erased data...
Now watch the 1 second total video time recovery !!!!!
At video time 0:54:30 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:10:23,
at an altitude reading of 22905 ft, full 100% throttles/thrust and 297 KTS, heading 087,
the left autopilot is switched on again. That's the pilot seat by the way, the right A/P is the co-pilot seat, and the center switch is for what?
I'll have to look that up.
Since none of you interact anymore to come up with that sort of important information. Damned lazy Americans and Allies, indoctrinated into that kind of behavior by clever psyop techniques for many decades already.
9/11 was a War Theater, planned for decades already, with the incredible funds for it, black-op funded during all that time and passing on to several administrations.
Now suddenly an extra second appears to the You Tube total video time counter :
At video time 0:54:47 / 1:30:01 and EDT 13:10:06,
at an altitude reading of 22564 ft, full 100% throttles/thrust and 319 KTS, heading 084,
a huge right push-down on the steering column handle, while the Rudder Position stays straight on zero.
At 0:54:47 to 48 and EDT 13:10:23 the altitude needle suddenly stays "dormant" and then starts to go up again. But the video time stays on :48 while the EDT time becomes :24......at 22570 ft.
Then at 0:54:50, EDT 13:10:25 and at 22581 ft, 320 KTS and 084 heading, the left A/P is switched off again.
It seems as if here also was something wrong with the clocks. (or the altitude needle)
CLICK THIS LINK :
Use fast-click on that You Tube window's PLAY/PAUSE triangle at its left bottom at the 0:55:00 video time, to see the INSTANT switch at 0:55:05 from the 22905 ft altitude to 22978 ft.
That's 73 feet climb in an instant.
A baro reset !
By the way, at the exact same altitude of 22905 ft as the autopilot switch-on in the above first sentences....
It looks as if that altitude was set in the software to change the baro settings. How could they know those EXACT values at forehand, before take-off ? That's only possible when they were feeding that remote steering software on the fly, a few minutes before that altitude was reached. Thus they could type in and send that exact baro setting from R.Reagan Int. Airport to their software inside AAL 77. They could not risk a few meters height variation in case of a slight difference in barometric pressure between departure and arrival at the scene of the Pentagon, or the plane's belly would kiss the Pentagon's lawn.
At 0:55:03 to :04 / 1:30:01, EDT 13:10:39 the altitude needle suddenly stays fixed during those two full seconds at 22905 ft, at 322 KTS and heading 084.
And then jumps in a wink of the eye to 22978 at 0:55:05 video time, EDT 13:10:40 during that instant switch of EDT :39 to EDT :40. Speed in KTS, and the heading stay both the same.
If that was not a manual barometric reset, then tell me what was it then?
The Remote take-over moment ?
Again, how on earth could the hijackers (if they were really in that cockpit, or existed at all) know the right baro values at Reagan Airport? While flying at 6 km high and many many miles away from any contact with Reagan Int. Airport control tower ? In all published Tower communications with AAL 77 was not one baro pressure communicated.
In retrospect, for a remote controller team, that was easy as pie. Just get it from the Reagan Airport flight control room, or any other insider there with a working phone and a barometer. Easier, from their own barometers.
These remote controllers were for sure situated at or near that R. Reagan Int. Airport, to have front seats while they steered that plane, AAL 77, into that west wall of the Pentagon.
At video time 0:54:30 / 1:30:00 and EDT 13:10:23,
at an altitude reading of 22905 ft, full 100% throttles/thrust and 297 KTS, heading 087,
the left autopilot is switched on again. That's the pilot seat by the way, the right A/P is the co-pilot seat, and the center switch is for what?
I'll have to look that up.
Since none of you interact anymore to come up with that sort of important information. Damned lazy Americans and Allies, indoctrinated into that kind of behavior by clever psyop techniques for many decades already.
9/11 was a War Theater, planned for decades already, with the incredible funds for it, black-op funded during all that time and passing on to several administrations.
Now suddenly an extra second appears to the You Tube total video time counter :
At video time 0:54:47 / 1:30:01 and EDT 13:10:06,
at an altitude reading of 22564 ft, full 100% throttles/thrust and 319 KTS, heading 084,
a huge right push-down on the steering column handle, while the Rudder Position stays straight on zero.
At 0:54:47 to 48 and EDT 13:10:23 the altitude needle suddenly stays "dormant" and then starts to go up again. But the video time stays on :48 while the EDT time becomes :24......at 22570 ft.
Then at 0:54:50, EDT 13:10:25 and at 22581 ft, 320 KTS and 084 heading, the left A/P is switched off again.
It seems as if here also was something wrong with the clocks. (or the altitude needle)
CLICK THIS LINK :
Use fast-click on that You Tube window's PLAY/PAUSE triangle at its left bottom at the 0:55:00 video time, to see the INSTANT switch at 0:55:05 from the 22905 ft altitude to 22978 ft.
That's 73 feet climb in an instant.
A baro reset !
By the way, at the exact same altitude of 22905 ft as the autopilot switch-on in the above first sentences....
It looks as if that altitude was set in the software to change the baro settings. How could they know those EXACT values at forehand, before take-off ? That's only possible when they were feeding that remote steering software on the fly, a few minutes before that altitude was reached. Thus they could type in and send that exact baro setting from R.Reagan Int. Airport to their software inside AAL 77. They could not risk a few meters height variation in case of a slight difference in barometric pressure between departure and arrival at the scene of the Pentagon, or the plane's belly would kiss the Pentagon's lawn.
At 0:55:03 to :04 / 1:30:01, EDT 13:10:39 the altitude needle suddenly stays fixed during those two full seconds at 22905 ft, at 322 KTS and heading 084.
And then jumps in a wink of the eye to 22978 at 0:55:05 video time, EDT 13:10:40 during that instant switch of EDT :39 to EDT :40. Speed in KTS, and the heading stay both the same.
If that was not a manual barometric reset, then tell me what was it then?
The Remote take-over moment ?
Again, how on earth could the hijackers (if they were really in that cockpit, or existed at all) know the right baro values at Reagan Airport? While flying at 6 km high and many many miles away from any contact with Reagan Int. Airport control tower ? In all published Tower communications with AAL 77 was not one baro pressure communicated.
In retrospect, for a remote controller team, that was easy as pie. Just get it from the Reagan Airport flight control room, or any other insider there with a working phone and a barometer. Easier, from their own barometers.
These remote controllers were for sure situated at or near that R. Reagan Int. Airport, to have front seats while they steered that plane, AAL 77, into that west wall of the Pentagon.
Since a 14 feet drop in 1 second plus a 73 feet climb in an instant would account for a 59 feet reality check on the plane's true altitude after two
possible baro corrections in that NTSB animation, I expected more than 2 altitude hick-ups could be found, since the barometric height correction at
the Pentagon in that FDR had to be re-calculated from -99 ft deep under soil at the standard FL180 pressure, to the real pressure related true height
at impact (or fly-over theory), which according to these patriotic pilots over at the Pilots for 911 Truth forum would be +174 feet.
See this true altitude calculator :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
BUT
Now I am realizing that that Pf911Truth FLY-OVER theory just dropped in the water.
Since they build that whole fly-over theory on the "fact" that they think that there was NO standard switch over at FL180 (18,000 feet altitude) to the real barometric value at the Pentagon grounds.
And they assumed thus, that the calculated from that FDR, true height at impact leaned on the standard baro value of above 18000 ft (FL180), being thus 1013.3 HPa (29.92 inch Hg).
They say they could not find any sign of such a baro setting switch in the FDR data, the value for such a switch was absent at or around the FL180 point in that FDR, according to him/them.
So, they never thought to look for such manual or software switches at other points in that FDR ?
Or the NTSB is plain stupid, to send their animation which they say is based on that also send along by them, official data read-out of the SSFDR of the whole flight of AAL 77, to FOIA applicants, with additional clear barometric pressure switch points in it ?
I have found just two such baro switches yet, but I expect more to be found in there.
To be easily found by an insisting 9/11 researcher.
See this true altitude calculator :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
BUT
Now I am realizing that that Pf911Truth FLY-OVER theory just dropped in the water.
Since they build that whole fly-over theory on the "fact" that they think that there was NO standard switch over at FL180 (18,000 feet altitude) to the real barometric value at the Pentagon grounds.
And they assumed thus, that the calculated from that FDR, true height at impact leaned on the standard baro value of above 18000 ft (FL180), being thus 1013.3 HPa (29.92 inch Hg).
They say they could not find any sign of such a baro setting switch in the FDR data, the value for such a switch was absent at or around the FL180 point in that FDR, according to him/them.
So, they never thought to look for such manual or software switches at other points in that FDR ?
Or the NTSB is plain stupid, to send their animation which they say is based on that also send along by them, official data read-out of the SSFDR of the whole flight of AAL 77, to FOIA applicants, with additional clear barometric pressure switch points in it ?
I have found just two such baro switches yet, but I expect more to be found in there.
To be easily found by an insisting 9/11 researcher.
LaBTop
Now watch the 1 second total video time recovery !!!!!
At video time 0:54:30 / 1:30:00
--snip--
Now suddenly an extra second appears to the You Tube total video time counter :
At video time 0:54:47 / 1:30:01
--snip--
An interesting development, or a You Tube glitch?
During the next few minutes (about ten) of me working on line, after my last post (14 hrs ago), with that very strange switch of total video time in it from 1:30:00 to 1:30:01, it stayed that way.
Then I opened a new You Tube window in my browser, with the same video starting at the same time.
It now suddenly showed NOWHERE in the video that 1:30:00 time stamp anymore, like it did at my time of posting and all the days before that.
It was all set to 1:30:01. From start to finish. The full one and a half hr. video time.
This is a screen shot from my above, first post on this nr 9 page :
files.abovetopsecret.com...
This too, with the date/time stamp visible of my top post in this page 9 :
files.abovetopsecret.com...
I realized something strange was going on, in the line of thought of some on-line entity having access to my box (NSA, CIA, Military Propaganda Army-whizkid, etc), or/and having direct access to the You Tube software engine.
So I severed my Internet cable from my box and waited 14 hrs. Never did put it back on.
To check my stored version of this NTSB video, for the same occurrence of that total video time switch from 00 to 01 seconds.
Since I couldn't believe my own eyes. Someone must have read my ATS posts, changed that total You Tube video time counter while I was still typing my next post (I'm posting that one under this post).
When I opened on another box of mine with Firefox Internet access (my other box still disconnected), after 14 hrs, this same thread of mine, at ATS could not be reached, then after 30 min., only the top 2 lines came up after a refresh and that stayed so for about one and a half hour.
Then after the stumpiest refresh, I opened another browser (Chrome), and that one showed the same two top lines. Then after the third refresh try in the next minute, it slowly opened the whole page 9.
Probably software maintenance at ATS. From somewhere within this EDT 21:30 to 23:00 time frame. Or ....?
Then I opened via my posted link the NTSB video at You Tube again.
To my utter amazement, the total video time counter now showed ALL over that video the original setting of 1:30:00 again.....
files.abovetopsecret.com...
I can only conclude from this back and forth setting of different total video times at this You Tube NTSB video that ATS is heavily monitored by entities who have direct access to at least You Tube its software, to change unwanted details in a few minutes.
Like I have said already many times in my posts, the same happened on 9/11, those military editors in the mainstream news networks editing rooms, removed quickly nearly all explosions sounds from the incoming data streams from reporters on the scenes. Then it was submitted in the next minutes to Reuters etc.
I have now, 16 Sept 2013, saved this altered NTSB animation video with its new reseted 1:30:00 total video time, and compared it to my saved version from 7 Sept 2013 with the 1:30:01 glitch in it.
See my above 3 screen shots for that comparison.
EDIT : and this is a screenshot from an older 1:30:00 NTSB animation, but by a different YT-uploader,
defaultdotxbe, posted by me a few years ago :
files.abovetopsecret.com...
EDIT 2 : This is the original Kevin Smith (who is JREF-er defaultdotxbe ) DVD quality upload at Google video, which Google (or I) can't find anymore :
video.google.com...
You get however a 404 Not Found Error back.
See : forums.randi.org...
Their admins should repair that.
This is his You Tube (timestamped 1:30:00 again) version, lower quality I suppose than the former one :
www.youtube.com...
edit on 16/9/13 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)
EDIT 3 : Now the total time stamp changed to 1:30:01 again in that video, just above this line, by Kevin Smith.......
edit on 16/9/13 by LaBTop
because: An attempt to make us crazier than we already are (in 'their' opinion), with that 00 to 01 switching per minute ?
FOUR more views of that last, above Kevin Smith NTSB YT-video, in the last week (7 days).
Indicating no 9/11 interest at all anymore by the membership here, and the 843,000 guests that viewed ATS in the last 7 days (see ATS stats: www.abovetopsecret.com... ).
Has ATS become a FOX clone? Only shallow reviewing of boring subjects?
Those four were probably JREF-ers, who will be pleased with what I found, I suppose.
Or Pilots for 911 Truth members? Rob will have cracked a blood vessel again.
Why can ATS not include views of its members their posts by Guests ?
And if those views come in abundance from USA dislikers? Like from Russia, Middle East, China, Iran etc, a long list as you should know by now.
Or from the US and its 'Allies'. Not many left of those, sadly enough.
Then it would be more clear if some kind of sandbox utilization is perhaps played at us, by external backbone owners, or (I hope not) internal forum forces.
Because I really can't understand anymore the very small interest in this thread, while in this thread I gave tens of reasons and hard evidence that 911 was a set-up on the American and global citizens, free to use by any real and honest 911 researcher.
And that 911 set-up did cost millions of PRECIOUS lives already, YOU could be the next one to suffer from it.
Mods, this is MY thread, mostly written by me, please leave this kind of contemplating posts also in and be sparse with your axes.
I keep it simple for those left that are interested in my musings, I only post in this, my own thread anymore. And all I write is for the generations after me and my ilk.
EDIT :
What the heck is happening?
In two hours there were suddenly 70,000 more guests reading ATS. The Monday morning flood at worldwide offices, shops, factories and schools, not to mention housewives:
Do I really see a substantial loss of registered members? And a huge increase in Guests?
What's Up , my dear Watson?
Indicating no 9/11 interest at all anymore by the membership here, and the 843,000 guests that viewed ATS in the last 7 days (see ATS stats: www.abovetopsecret.com... ).
Has ATS become a FOX clone? Only shallow reviewing of boring subjects?
Those four were probably JREF-ers, who will be pleased with what I found, I suppose.
Or Pilots for 911 Truth members? Rob will have cracked a blood vessel again.
Why can ATS not include views of its members their posts by Guests ?
And if those views come in abundance from USA dislikers? Like from Russia, Middle East, China, Iran etc, a long list as you should know by now.
Or from the US and its 'Allies'. Not many left of those, sadly enough.
Then it would be more clear if some kind of sandbox utilization is perhaps played at us, by external backbone owners, or (I hope not) internal forum forces.
Because I really can't understand anymore the very small interest in this thread, while in this thread I gave tens of reasons and hard evidence that 911 was a set-up on the American and global citizens, free to use by any real and honest 911 researcher.
And that 911 set-up did cost millions of PRECIOUS lives already, YOU could be the next one to suffer from it.
Mods, this is MY thread, mostly written by me, please leave this kind of contemplating posts also in and be sparse with your axes.
I keep it simple for those left that are interested in my musings, I only post in this, my own thread anymore. And all I write is for the generations after me and my ilk.
EDIT :
What the heck is happening?
In two hours there were suddenly 70,000 more guests reading ATS. The Monday morning flood at worldwide offices, shops, factories and schools, not to mention housewives:
And new content, new ideas, new speculation, and new theories are being generating at an astounding pace with 2,750 members creating 27,858 new posts during the past seven days. Also, in that same time span, we welcomed 330 new members and enjoyed visits from 7,604 registered members as well as 912,480 guests.
Do I really see a substantial loss of registered members? And a huge increase in Guests?
What's Up , my dear Watson?
edit on 16/9/13 by LaBTop because: Added ATS stats.
At video time 0:53:21/ 1:30:00 and EDT 13:08:56,
at an altitude reading of 21770 ft, there's again a short 1 second hick-up in the altitude meter needle movement. (no A/P L C R), then, at 0:53:33 and EDT 13:09:07 the altitude needle stops at 21772 ft and stops for 2 seconds there, then jumps in an instant to 21790 ft , while the EDT time jumps from :07 to :09, without ever showing the :08 second !
That's a 18 ft jump in an instant, again a barometric reset.
Then the altitude meter instead of steadily descending, starts to steadily climb again, while thrust is increased too.
At 0:54:21 and EDT 13:09:57 the altitude needle stops at 23180 ft stays there for a moment and starts descending again steadily, while at 22909 ft the left pilot's autopilot function is switched on again. (at 0:54:30 and EDT 13:10:06).
There follows another hick-up a few seconds later when that autopilot is switched off again.
You better see for yourself how many more altitude hick-ups and seconds loss you can find.
I'm not in the mood anymore. I have better things to do than to preach for a dwindling choir.
And watching how "they" keep changing that You Tube (Their Tube) total video time again and again from :00 to :01.
Now that helpful red band occurring during video-pause, above the thin red line with its white placement dot under the screen has been removed, so you can't pinpoint the exact video time back to where you saw a glitch, anymore. I know when you can't fight the system anymore, and things become frightening.
Goodbye all, again.
I'll keep watching this place, but better stop posting. I like to stay alive.
at an altitude reading of 21770 ft, there's again a short 1 second hick-up in the altitude meter needle movement. (no A/P L C R), then, at 0:53:33 and EDT 13:09:07 the altitude needle stops at 21772 ft and stops for 2 seconds there, then jumps in an instant to 21790 ft , while the EDT time jumps from :07 to :09, without ever showing the :08 second !
That's a 18 ft jump in an instant, again a barometric reset.
Then the altitude meter instead of steadily descending, starts to steadily climb again, while thrust is increased too.
At 0:54:21 and EDT 13:09:57 the altitude needle stops at 23180 ft stays there for a moment and starts descending again steadily, while at 22909 ft the left pilot's autopilot function is switched on again. (at 0:54:30 and EDT 13:10:06).
There follows another hick-up a few seconds later when that autopilot is switched off again.
You better see for yourself how many more altitude hick-ups and seconds loss you can find.
I'm not in the mood anymore. I have better things to do than to preach for a dwindling choir.
And watching how "they" keep changing that You Tube (Their Tube) total video time again and again from :00 to :01.
Now that helpful red band occurring during video-pause, above the thin red line with its white placement dot under the screen has been removed, so you can't pinpoint the exact video time back to where you saw a glitch, anymore. I know when you can't fight the system anymore, and things become frightening.
Goodbye all, again.
I'll keep watching this place, but better stop posting. I like to stay alive.
Read :
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The Last Word. (1:24:36 / 1:28:10)
That's the last chapter of Part 3 of this professionally constructed 9/11-documentary, summing up the myriad of questions YOUR representatives in the Senate and Congress should have asked during the last decade, in that rattlesnakes nest full of corporate lobbyists named Washington DC.
From that Last Word chapter, first responder David Miller's last words in 2006 at a 9/11 convention :
He passed away from his WTC related cancers in December 2010, four years after his speech.
At least 400 first responders and people who lived near the WTC site have died from cancers since 9/11. Another 15,000 have been confirmed ill with toxic inhalation-related diseases.
Thousands will also die in the next 10 years...
Honor all these doomed to die a horrible death, and those passed away, all helpful citizens who were lured into that poisonous WTC pit, by listening to this music while trying to imagine the state of mind of those who really instigated this massacre....
Adagio in G Minor (Albinoni) www.youtube.com...
This is the "September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Trailer :
www.youtube.com...
These are the full, three DVD-parts of this very important 3 hrs film by Massimo Mazzucco from Italy's 9/11 movement :
"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (1/3)
www.youtube.com...
"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (2/3)
www.youtube.com...
"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (3/3)
www.youtube.com...
As a very useful addition to Massimo Mazzucco's excellent 9/11 compilation video, you should (re)read this extreme long post of mine, full with video and photo and drawings evidences, titled :
This long list of evidences of wrongdoing by the US government and various of its Institutions.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The Last Word. (1:24:36 / 1:28:10)
That's the last chapter of Part 3 of this professionally constructed 9/11-documentary, summing up the myriad of questions YOUR representatives in the Senate and Congress should have asked during the last decade, in that rattlesnakes nest full of corporate lobbyists named Washington DC.
From that Last Word chapter, first responder David Miller's last words in 2006 at a 9/11 convention :
We were also killed on 9/11.
AVENGE US....
He passed away from his WTC related cancers in December 2010, four years after his speech.
At least 400 first responders and people who lived near the WTC site have died from cancers since 9/11. Another 15,000 have been confirmed ill with toxic inhalation-related diseases.
Thousands will also die in the next 10 years...
Honor all these doomed to die a horrible death, and those passed away, all helpful citizens who were lured into that poisonous WTC pit, by listening to this music while trying to imagine the state of mind of those who really instigated this massacre....
Adagio in G Minor (Albinoni) www.youtube.com...
This is the "September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Trailer :
www.youtube.com...
These are the full, three DVD-parts of this very important 3 hrs film by Massimo Mazzucco from Italy's 9/11 movement :
"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (1/3)
www.youtube.com...
INDEX for DVD 1
INTRODUCTION
0.01:02 - 12 parallels between Pearl
Harbor and September 11
0.14:10 - The debate: main issues
PART 1 - AIR DEFENSE
0.14:55 - Where are the interceptors?
0.16:12 - The "incompetence theory"
(radars, transponders)
0.22:00 - The military drills
0.29:40 - Specific warnings
0.33:08 - The chain of command
0.38:10 - Promotions, not punishments
0.39:50 - The Mineta case
0.47:38 - Debunkers: "Mineta was mistaken"
0.53:18 - The Mineta case - A summary
PART 2 - THE HIJACKERS
0.57:15 - "Piss-poor student pilots"
0.59:38 - Marwan al-Sheikki (UA175)
1.01:52 - Ziad Jarrah (UA93)
1.03:06 - Hani Hanjour (AA77)
1.04:00 - The debunkers' positions
1.06:00 - Two simulations of the Pentagon attack
1.13:10 - Someone knew?
1.16:40 - Airport security cameras
1.20.15 - The missing black boxes
PART 3 - THE AIRPLANES
1.26:50 - Passenger planes or military drones?
1.28:20 - Impossible speeds
1.37:30 - What happened to the passengers?
1.38:35 - The cellphone calls
1.48:30 - The debunkers' position
1.50:38 - If not from the planes, from where?
"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (2/3)
www.youtube.com...
INDEX for DVD 2
PART 4 - THE PENTAGON
0.02:35 - Downed light poles
0.03:30 - The missing plane
0.04:30 - The official version
0.05:24 - Problems with the official version
(wing, ailerons, tail, engines)
0.13:09 - The mystery hole
0.14:10 - The debunkers' explanations
0.16:20 - Conclusions on damage analysis
0.17:00 - The missing tapes
0.18:30 - Security video analysis
The one second where AAL77 should be in full view, is MISSING.
SOURCE FILES: Here you can download the Pentagon video analysis by digital expert P.P. Murru (in Italian). All other sources used in the film are easily retrievable online.
0.23.40 - Pentagon summary
PART 5 - FLIGHT 93
0.24.15 - The empty hole
0.28.00 - The debunkers' explanations
0.33:00 - Plane crash or bomb explosion?
0.34:50 - The debris field
0.37.20 - The shootdown hypothesis
0.38:50 - The small white plane
0.41:40 - "Let's roll"
0.44:25 - Summary of Flight 93
PART 6 - THE TWIN TOWERS
0.45:10 - Introduction
0.47:45 - The Towers' small dirty secret
0.53:10 - Larry Silverstein
0.56:15 - NIST vs. Architects & Engineers
0.58:00 - Robust or fragile buildings?
1.04:45 - The initial collapse - Explanation #1
1.05:45 - The initial collapse - Explanation #2
1.07:35 - Problems with the official explanation
1.18:00 - The full collapse - No official explanation
1.18:50 - Law of physics violated
1.20:50 - The Twin Towers and freefall
1.27:50 - Debunkers' response to A&E
"September 11 - The New Pearl Harbor" - Full version (3/3)
www.youtube.com...
INDEX for DVD 3
(Twin Towers continued)
0.00:20 - The hypothesis of controlled demolitions
0.01:08 - Debunkers: "Impossible to place explosives"
0.07:34 - Explosions in the Twin Towers (witnesses)
0.15:00 - "Fuel in elevators shafts" theory
0.23:25 - Debunkers: "Explosions not recorded by tv cameras"
0.30:26 - Squibs
0.33:00 - Explosive force (montage)
0.35:00 - Ejecta
0.38:00 - Diagonal cuts
0.40:15 - What happened to the hat trusses?
0.42:20 - Extreme temperatures
0.45:30 - Debunkers' explanations
0.46:45 - Twisted and mangled beams
0.47:40 - Molten steel
0.51:05 - Molten concrete
0.53:50 - Pulverization
0.57:40 - Victims vaporized
1.02:20 - Conclusion on the Twin Towers
PART 7 - BUILDING 7
1.05:10 - Introduction
1.06:35 - Official version by NIST
1.09:36 - Collapse computer simulation
1.11:00 - Fire computer simulation
1.12:20 - Debunkers: "Building 7 weaker"
1.14:25 - Pre-knowledge
1.19:00 - Symmetry
1.20:00 - Freefall
EPILOGUE
1.22:30 - John McCain
1.24:35 - The last word - 1:28:10
As a very useful addition to Massimo Mazzucco's excellent 9/11 compilation video, you should (re)read this extreme long post of mine, full with video and photo and drawings evidences, titled :
This long list of evidences of wrongdoing by the US government and various of its Institutions.
And this is (part of) the interview with Frank Probst (0:39 / 1:09), who was mentioned in the Pentagon 911 Performance Report (they cut out the start
of that interview. For that, see the "Pentagon 911 Building Performance Report" ) :
Title : Discovery Super Structures - Pentagon Witnesses
www.youtube.com...
Questions in court, under oath : Mr. Probst, how many meters away, were you standing on that footpath along Route 27's safety rails, south of (while facing) the two trees growing along Washington Boulevard (Route 27), both standing in front of the Helipad, when you saw the plane coming in at you, with its two jet engines no more than 6 feet (1.83 meter) above the grassy lawn in front of the Pentagon's west wall, which grass you were then diving down on?
How could you hear the noise of the still far away plane's two jet engines when you were walking to your meeting in the construction wagon, north of the North Entrance, with your face northwards, while the northerly wind blew in your face, so it would be near impossible to hear those engines still so far away.
How on earth were you capable of noticing and thus seeing that FAR SOUTH OF YOU very low incoming OFFICIAL plane path at all, when you were walking on that north leading footpath? Or do you walk occasionally with your head turned 180 degrees backwards, to be able to see what happens behind you?
If I stand on the viewing platform of any airport, looking southwards at low slow incoming planes, under a northern wind, blowing southwards, I can only hear those plane's engines when they are nearly perpendicular to me, in their landing path on the runway.
Since I know what your government payed lawyers will come up with, I checked it too, under the same circumstances, during a military air-show, when big jet planes did a low fast bypass over the runway.
With the same result, you hear those engines only just before they pass your viewing angle, perpendicular to that runway. When the wind blows towards the incoming plane.
And a new to me witness I never heard of before : Cheryll Ryefield, Public Affairs, U.S. Army.
Question in court, under oath : Mrs. Ryefield, WHERE, did you see that plane? To the left (south), over, or to the right (north) of the Navy Annex its building 8, seen from your position (still driving) just in front of the Helipad?
WHY, did you ran forward (northwards) after you stepped out of your car, positioned almost in front of the Pentagon Helipad? To be more precise, just in front of the in 2001 growing there, two wide foliage trees along Route 27.
The normal reaction for a witness in that specific position would have been to step out, turn southwards and to keep standing beneath her car and looking 300 meters southwards on Route 27, since the official story (based on the "recovered" FDR and the 5 cut-downed light poles) told us, so told you too, that the plane came over Route 27 at a height of about 30 feet (9 meters) over the north rim of the concrete railings of the overpass bridge in Route 27.
Coming in at an angle of about 45 degrees to that bridge. So, time enough for you to observe it come flying in and calculate the spot where it would cross that road.
Besides, how could you possibly observe a plane coming from a southern approach (the official one) from inside your car? Are you always driving with your head turned nearly 180 degrees, to see what happens BEHIND you?
This is a still screenshot, out of a 2 seconds long animation from the above linked to Discovery Channel video, where the artist seemed to clearly disagree with the official flight path of AAL77. You can see the moving plane from 0:15 to 0:17 of the 1:09 long "Discovery Super Structures - Pentagon Witnesses" video I linked to above.
This is that still picture, especially watch the plane's shadow moving over the ground, this is exactly the flightpath I propose already for so many years.
Coming from over the Navy Annex, making a slow right wing down turn around just north of the CITGO gas station and crossing Route 27 nearly wings-level, just south of the two trees and passing with its left wing tip just over the southern rim of the concrete of the Helipad, also over the cars of Mrs. Peterson and Penny Elgas, which also were stopped in front of the Helipad, standing on the northern going, free to drive with one driver, after 9:00, HOV (high occupation vehicles) lanes :
Title : Discovery Super Structures - Pentagon Witnesses
www.youtube.com...
"The engine was about 6 feet off the ground, coming right on me, I laid down on the ground....I watched the plane come over top of me, the street lights were fallen...on (those or both?) sides of me...The two engines were hanging way down underneath the plane.. both hit on the Pentagon in this area out here (he stands in front of the collapsed portion of Wedge 1) and there was a fireball right after that,,and I can remember the tail section disappearing into the fireball."
Questions in court, under oath : Mr. Probst, how many meters away, were you standing on that footpath along Route 27's safety rails, south of (while facing) the two trees growing along Washington Boulevard (Route 27), both standing in front of the Helipad, when you saw the plane coming in at you, with its two jet engines no more than 6 feet (1.83 meter) above the grassy lawn in front of the Pentagon's west wall, which grass you were then diving down on?
How could you hear the noise of the still far away plane's two jet engines when you were walking to your meeting in the construction wagon, north of the North Entrance, with your face northwards, while the northerly wind blew in your face, so it would be near impossible to hear those engines still so far away.
How on earth were you capable of noticing and thus seeing that FAR SOUTH OF YOU very low incoming OFFICIAL plane path at all, when you were walking on that north leading footpath? Or do you walk occasionally with your head turned 180 degrees backwards, to be able to see what happens behind you?
If I stand on the viewing platform of any airport, looking southwards at low slow incoming planes, under a northern wind, blowing southwards, I can only hear those plane's engines when they are nearly perpendicular to me, in their landing path on the runway.
Since I know what your government payed lawyers will come up with, I checked it too, under the same circumstances, during a military air-show, when big jet planes did a low fast bypass over the runway.
With the same result, you hear those engines only just before they pass your viewing angle, perpendicular to that runway. When the wind blows towards the incoming plane.
And a new to me witness I never heard of before : Cheryll Ryefield, Public Affairs, U.S. Army.
"About nine thirty eight, as I was almost in front of the Helipad, I saw a plane coming over the hill near the Navy Annex. I just STOPPED the car ( so her lane was still moving), opened the door, left the keys in, it was running, the radio was on, and I ran forward, I couldn't believe it."
Question in court, under oath : Mrs. Ryefield, WHERE, did you see that plane? To the left (south), over, or to the right (north) of the Navy Annex its building 8, seen from your position (still driving) just in front of the Helipad?
WHY, did you ran forward (northwards) after you stepped out of your car, positioned almost in front of the Pentagon Helipad? To be more precise, just in front of the in 2001 growing there, two wide foliage trees along Route 27.
The normal reaction for a witness in that specific position would have been to step out, turn southwards and to keep standing beneath her car and looking 300 meters southwards on Route 27, since the official story (based on the "recovered" FDR and the 5 cut-downed light poles) told us, so told you too, that the plane came over Route 27 at a height of about 30 feet (9 meters) over the north rim of the concrete railings of the overpass bridge in Route 27.
Coming in at an angle of about 45 degrees to that bridge. So, time enough for you to observe it come flying in and calculate the spot where it would cross that road.
Besides, how could you possibly observe a plane coming from a southern approach (the official one) from inside your car? Are you always driving with your head turned nearly 180 degrees, to see what happens BEHIND you?
This is a still screenshot, out of a 2 seconds long animation from the above linked to Discovery Channel video, where the artist seemed to clearly disagree with the official flight path of AAL77. You can see the moving plane from 0:15 to 0:17 of the 1:09 long "Discovery Super Structures - Pentagon Witnesses" video I linked to above.
This is that still picture, especially watch the plane's shadow moving over the ground, this is exactly the flightpath I propose already for so many years.
Coming from over the Navy Annex, making a slow right wing down turn around just north of the CITGO gas station and crossing Route 27 nearly wings-level, just south of the two trees and passing with its left wing tip just over the southern rim of the concrete of the Helipad, also over the cars of Mrs. Peterson and Penny Elgas, which also were stopped in front of the Helipad, standing on the northern going, free to drive with one driver, after 9:00, HOV (high occupation vehicles) lanes :
Wouldn't it be nice to show a photo of that Helipad's concrete, with a long, perpendicular to the west wall, deep scratch from AAL77's left wing
tip, in the concrete?
As several witnesses told us to have witnessed happening. A few of them stood also near that Helipad in their cars...
I doubt it, since IF that plane flew 512 Knots when it hit the west wall, its wing configuration would have looked like a 120 degree angled-up pair of wings beside the fuselage. With even more curled up wingtips.
Since in such dense air at ground level, with such an enormous velocity, those two wing-end-halfs would have been flexed upwards, to its maximum possible positions, just before they would fail and break apart. That's why you should not believe that FDR"s last minute and its last seconds. That's the time span that the plane flew that North of Citgo flightpath and flew straight into that west wall, and not under that officially pushed 45 to 52 degrees angle South of the Citgo.
This is a landing, slow flying 757, and look how flexed up those wingtips already are (with all flaps and ailerons full out, landing gear down, so not a clean plane like at the Pentagon) :
And since the official version shows us a straight left wing imprint all along the limestone cover stones straight along the first floor's concrete slab, to the left of the nose cone impact hole, with all the long thin cover limestones broken off above many intact windows situated in the bottom floor, then the right wing must have been projected on the wall at about 120 degrees upwards compared to that perfectly horizontal left wing imprint.
As several witnesses told us to have witnessed happening. A few of them stood also near that Helipad in their cars...
I doubt it, since IF that plane flew 512 Knots when it hit the west wall, its wing configuration would have looked like a 120 degree angled-up pair of wings beside the fuselage. With even more curled up wingtips.
Since in such dense air at ground level, with such an enormous velocity, those two wing-end-halfs would have been flexed upwards, to its maximum possible positions, just before they would fail and break apart. That's why you should not believe that FDR"s last minute and its last seconds. That's the time span that the plane flew that North of Citgo flightpath and flew straight into that west wall, and not under that officially pushed 45 to 52 degrees angle South of the Citgo.
This is a landing, slow flying 757, and look how flexed up those wingtips already are (with all flaps and ailerons full out, landing gear down, so not a clean plane like at the Pentagon) :
And since the official version shows us a straight left wing imprint all along the limestone cover stones straight along the first floor's concrete slab, to the left of the nose cone impact hole, with all the long thin cover limestones broken off above many intact windows situated in the bottom floor, then the right wing must have been projected on the wall at about 120 degrees upwards compared to that perfectly horizontal left wing imprint.
new topics
-
Stalker 2 - Review from a Veteran
Video Games: 10 minutes ago -
Does anyone have a link to download apple pay for androids
Regional Politics: 1 hours ago -
🐰Most INSANE internet rabbit hole🕳
Secret Societies: 1 hours ago -
Joe Rogan conspiracy (maybe)
ATS Skunk Works: 5 hours ago -
Results of the use of the Oreshnik missile system in Dnepropetrovsk
World War Three: 7 hours ago -
Nigel Farage now the Most Favoured UK Politician
Regional Politics: 9 hours ago
top topics
-
Little Johnny and Larry should team up
General Chit Chat: 15 hours ago, 13 flags -
Results of the use of the Oreshnik missile system in Dnepropetrovsk
World War Three: 7 hours ago, 11 flags -
🐰Most INSANE internet rabbit hole🕳
Secret Societies: 1 hours ago, 5 flags -
Nigel Farage now the Most Favoured UK Politician
Regional Politics: 9 hours ago, 4 flags -
Will Us use alien technology to fight in ww3?
World War Three: 15 hours ago, 3 flags -
Joe Rogan conspiracy (maybe)
ATS Skunk Works: 5 hours ago, 3 flags -
Does anyone have a link to download apple pay for androids
Regional Politics: 1 hours ago, 0 flags -
Stalker 2 - Review from a Veteran
Video Games: 10 minutes ago, 0 flags
active topics
-
Will Us use alien technology to fight in ww3?
World War Three • 14 • : DaydreamerX -
Does anyone have a link to download apple pay for androids
Regional Politics • 6 • : bluemooone44 -
Results of the use of the Oreshnik missile system in Dnepropetrovsk
World War Three • 151 • : rickymouse -
Stalker 2 - Review from a Veteran
Video Games • 0 • : gortex -
-@TH3WH17ERABB17- -Q- ---TIME TO SHOW THE WORLD--- -Part- --44--
Dissecting Disinformation • 3357 • : Thoughtful3 -
🐰Most INSANE internet rabbit hole🕳
Secret Societies • 2 • : BeyondKnowledge3 -
Nigel Farage now the Most Favoured UK Politician
Regional Politics • 8 • : angelchemuel -
Inca stone masonry at Sacsayhuaman, Ollantaytambo and the Sun Temple
Ancient & Lost Civilizations • 9 • : Astrocometus -
Post A Funny (T&C Friendly) Pic Part IV: The LOL awakens!
General Chit Chat • 7816 • : baddmove -
DOJ moving to wind down Trump criminal cases before he takes office
Mainstream News • 46 • : WeMustCare