Revisiting the case of Dr. David Kelly

Revisiting the case of Dr. David Kelly

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Hey all,

Over the last couple of months now I've been largely absent from reading and posting on ATS, this due to being pretty busy in real life with personal issues, constant work and so on. But, due to an injury relatively recently I've suddenly had a bit more time to come online again and read up on some of my favourite alternative topics. As well as visiting, I want to try and contribute a couple more threads like I used to on these very same topics as well, something I admittedly missed doing quite a lot - Thus insert this new thread right here of course..

Writing up and posting new threads always was an enjoyable thing for me after all, and I always enjoyed looking into the kind of subjects that I felt like we aren't ever really supposed to know anything about. And In this thread the chosen topic of discussion courtesy of myself involves a rather popular case right here in the UK, although a story that has died down quite a lot in recent times. It's the case of Dr. David Kelly, one of the most well known experts on Biological warfare worldwide, someone who also served as a United Nations inspector in Iraq during the 90's, and his still very mysterious and suspicious death on the 17th or 18th of July, 2003, now not so far away from Its 10 year anniversary.

David Kelly, as well as being a name more people in the UK should undoubtedly recognize, is also a name I’m certain most here on ATS will be more than familiar with to at least some degree, and this case is one I want to revisit for this wonderful community too. There has after all been a fair few threads posted on this individual in the past (a list of which is posted towards the bottom of this thread), some quite popular some not so much. But many of them present nonetheless. To me personally, his case is, as I've hinted at already, nothing short of a fascinating one, and I say that purely from the perspective of someone who refers to themselves as a conspiracy theorist, and as someone who wants to find the truth in all things.

This thread here is my own personal look and interpretation of the life and death of this quiet, reserved man who did his job well, and who was caught inadvertently in an impossible position between two great public forces. A man who we’re led to believe died as a result of his own actions, but one who was very possibly murdered right in front of our very own eyes. This is my thread revisiting the case of Dr. David Kelly, a story I hope to re-ignite on ATS and one which certainly deserves as much in my opinion.

Thanks for your time and I do hope you continue reading.

The Beginning of the End of D.C. Kelly

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Dr. David Christopher Kelly, born on the 14th of May 1944, was born in Rhondda,Wales. He eventually became one of the world's leading experts on biological warfare, as we know, joining the Ministry of Defense (MOD) in 1984. And during the 90’s he even served as one of the top United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq. On the 17th of July, 2003, however everything changed as Kelly was dead through means we've never been able to fully establish and by the next morning on the 18th, he was found a mere couple of miles away from his home in Oxfordshire. He was found by two volunteer searchers on Harringdown hill, a popular spot he visited often for his walks in fact. His wife had reported him missing around midnight the previous day and he was found the following morning a short while after 9am.

The verdict was that Kelly had committed suicide by cutting his left wrist with a garden knife and he's also said to have ingested a maximum amount of 29 painkillers and co-proxamol drugs as well, of which he obtained through unclear means. The slit wrist was the official cause of death. But the question remains - Why would he kill himself? What was the reasoning, the motive and so on? He was after all an unlikely candidate for such an act, having no previously known interest or record of this kind of thing according to friends, as well as psychiatric treatment.

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Well, a possible motive, one accepted by the official version of events, points towards the fact that Kelly had been recently thrown firmly into the public spotlight and in his eyes in a very negative way indeed, something he just could not handle and so he took his own life - A very plausible explanation on the face of it as far as I’m concerned at least. But, there is far, far more to the story than that and to truly come to a conclusion we must go to the very beginning...

The British government wanted a war in Iraq, that we all know. They wanted it and they sure as hell got it, and then some. But in order to justify their actions, they in particular released what we know as the 'September Dossier', also known as 'Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction: The Assessment of the British Government'. With-in the dossier were claims that Iraq had continued Its nuclear program, had achieved production and was in possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD's), including chemical weapons and biological weapons, and most importantly and of course controversially, they could launch a nuclear weapon with-in 45 minutes, the now infamous 45 minute claim, something the newspapers over here in the UK had a field day with. Kelly proved these claims wrong:

Two lies were pivotal to the invasion of Iraq: one was that the mobile laboratories found in Iraq were evidence of WMD, and the other was that WMD could be launched from Iraq at British bases in Cyprus within 45 minutes. Kelly demolished them both. It was he who had leaked to the Observer that the mobile laboratories were not for WMD, and it was he who had expressed deep unhappiness with the claim that WMD could be launched from Iraq in 45 minutes. Kelly was one of the most senior and highly-respected weapons inspectors. His return to Iraq on 26 July 2003, a date that was confirmed by the MoD the day before he disappeared, would have risked his being able to demonstrate conclusively that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

(Source)

In one particular Kelly was definitively at odds with what both George Bush and Blair were claiming about post-war discoveries of Iraqi weapons. Both had insisted that Coalition Forces had found and identified two alleged mobile germ warfare laboratories. But Kelly had a totally different opinion, telling The Observer that he had examined the alleged labs in person and had no doubts about what they were intended for - the production of hydrogen to fill artillery balloons. 'Exactly as the Iraqis described them,' he would tell this paper

(Source)

On the 22nd of May, a journalist by the name of Andrew Gilligan (pictured below) sought out the attention of David Kelly – Not particularly odd really as he was well known to journalists at that point, even briefing them as part of his job. Kelly had received the highest level of security while working for the MOD, he was privy to all kinds of information high up on the national security food chain.

Anyway, they met via an unauthorized meeting - in the sense that Kelly’s superiors didn’t know it was taking place - at a hotel at Gilligans request, the Victorian Charing Cross hotel, in order to discuss the current situation in Iraq which was coming under more and more scrutiny with each passing day due to the failure of coalition forces to find the promised Iraqi's weapons of mass destruction. Kelly being the perfect man for him to seek out – He was after all the former head of biological inspections in Iraq for the UN mission, Unscom, former deputy head of Porton Down and the Ministry of Defence's senior adviser on biological defense.

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Despite speaking on what's known as an "Unattributable Basis", which translates to allowing the interviewer, in this case Gilligan on behalf of the BBC, to report what was said but not allowing the identity of the source, Kelly, to be revealed, this interview would become the beginning of the end for Kelly, sparking a series of events ultimately leading to his own death via suicide or quite possibly murder at the hands of those who wanted to quite literally shut this particular scientist up.

On the 29th of that very same month, Andrew Gilligan, whilst appearing on the today show here in the UK, revealed that he had a source whom revealed to him that the 45 claim in particular was false and the government, in particular Director of Communications and Strategy Alistair Campbell, , who would later resign during the Hutton Inquiry into the death of Kelly, placed it in the September Dossier knowing full well that it was false, and in turn "sexed-up" the dossier to make it more attractive to the public in an effort to gain extra support for the on-going war in Iraq. Despite these claims, Kelly, knowing full well that he had a meeting with this individual a short while before, denied he could be the source, believing that, if indeed he was, his words were taken out of context.

Neither man, however, could foresee the profound implications that meeting would have; how both would be hounded by Ministers and government officials over who said what to whom. In particular, neither could foresee the consequences of allegations - denied by Kelly - that he had told Gilligan how Alastair Campbell, the Prime Minister's Director of Communications, had improperly 'sexed up' the Government's September dossier, which presented the pressing evidence of Iraq's weapons programmes.

One claim in particular infuriated Campbell and the Government when it appeared in an article by Gilligan - that a senior intelligence source had told him the communications chief had insisted on including a contested claim that Iraq could 'deploy' its weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes.

(Source)

The leak had inadvertently created a massive political storm between the BBC, whom Gilligan worked for of course, and the current Labor government, with Kelly still unknown and right in the middle of it all. Despite believing he was not the source, as he claimed what was revealed to Gilligan was not what he was actually reporting in public, he still took the difficult decision to contact his superior at the Ministry of Defense and reveal the details of his unauthorized meeting that had taken place.

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(Alistair Campbell)

He was ultimately questioned a number of times but they could not even be sure if he was indeed the source used. Gilligan very well could’ve had someone else that they had no idea about. Eventually however, the MOD pressed ahead and publicly revealed that an employee of theirs had come forward who might be the source but in doing so they deliberately left clues for journalists to easily reveal the identity of the source, which they did so. The government handed him on a plate to the press and Kelly's name was now out, and he didn't like it one bit. He even spoke of leaving his home and travelling to Cornwall with his wife in an effort to escape the media storm now surrounding him.

As well as receiving this already horrible public attention that he didn’t want one bit, as he seemed to feel as though his reputation was in pieces, he was then made to appear before two committees in the House of Commons that were investigating the situation in Iraq as well as the recent leak, one of which would be live on television, something that distressed Kelly even more.

When he appeared before the Foreign Affairs Select Committee on 15 July 2003, Kelly appeared to be under severe stress, which was probably increased by the televising of the proceedings. He spoke with a voice so soft that the air-conditioning equipment had to be turned off, even though it was one of the hottest days of the year.

His evidence to the committee was that he had not said the things Gilligan had reported his source as saying, and members of the committee came to the conclusion that he had not been the source. Some of the questioning was very precise. The Labour MP Andrew MacKinlay, in particular, used a forceful tone in his cross-examination. For example, when asked to simply list the journalists that he met, Kelly declined to answer and requested that such a list be sought from the MoD, which triggered a response: "...This is the high court of Parliament and I want you to tell the Committee who you met... You are under an obligation to reply". The Chairman of the Committee (Donald Anderson) underscored the validity of MacKinlay's question telling Kelly: "It is a proper question... If you have met journalists there is nothing sinister in itself about meeting journalists, save in an unauthorised way." Mackinlay offered his opinion that Kelly had been used by Gilligan telling Kelly: "I reckon you are chaff; you have been thrown up to divert our probing. Have you ever felt like a fall-guy? You have been set up, have you not?"

Kelly was deeply upset by his treatment before the Committee and privately described MacKinlay as an 'utter bastard.' During the hearing, he was closely questioned about several quotes given to Susan Watts, another BBC journalist working on Newsnight, who had reported a similar story. It later emerged that Gilligan had himself told members of the committee that Watts' source was also Kelly. Kelly denied any knowledge of the quotes, and must have realised that he would have serious problems if the Ministry of Defence believed he had been the source of them. On the following day, (16 July 2003), Kelly gave evidence to the Intelligence and Security Committee. He told them that he liaised with Operation Rockingham within the Defence Intelligence Staff.

(Source)

A few days later, on the 17th of July, Kelly left his home in the afternoon and went on a walk, something he did often. Prior to it however, and after his questioning, he's been confirmed to have sent various emails to friends and colleagues of his, as well as replying to a myriad of supportive emails sent to him in the first place, telling them that there is "many dark actors playing games" and approximately 3 hours before his walk telling friend Judith Miller "Many thanks for your support. Hopefully it will soon pass and I can get to Baghdad and get on with the real job."

Unfortunately however, the next morning he was suddenly and rather shockingly found dead after apparently overdosing on pills and slitting his left wrist, the latter being the official cause of death due to a haemorrhage. His lifeless body was found on Harrowdown Hill. And It was there in particular where the vast majority of the official story fails to make much sense at all.

In Death Suspicions Are Raised..

It was the morning of the 18th of July, 2003, losing his life the day before, when Kelly's body was found after his wife, Janice, raised the alarm the previous night. He was found by 2 volunteer searchers, Paul Chapman and Louise Holmes with the help of their dog Brock, a border collie/Australian shepherd cross. They found him in the woods of Harringdown Hill, a walking spot of his. They claim he was slumped up against a tree at the time, a minor sounding claim that would become a huge part of this case.

See, one of the first discrepancies lay in the actual finding of the body. Now, as we know, the first two people who found Kelly were indeed Chapman and Holmes mentioned above. This is what they described exactly upon their questioning:

MR KNOX: What did you see?

MS HOLMES: I could see a body slumped against the bottom of a tree, so I turned around and shouted to Paul to ring Control and tell them that we had found something and then went closer to just see whether there was any first aid that I needed to administer.

MR KNOX: And how close up to the body did you go?

MS HOLMES: Within sort of a few feet of the body.

MR KNOX: And did you notice anything about the position of the body?

MS HOLMES: He was at the base of the tree with almost his head and his shoulders just slumped back against the tree.

A little further on is this exchange:

MR KNOX: I take it you did not actually go up to the body itself and feel the pulse?

MS HOLMES: I did not touch it, no.

(Source)

And Chapman:

MR DINGEMANS: Did you see what Brock the dog had found?

MR CHAPMAN: Yes.

MR DINGEMANS: And what was that?

MR CHAPMAN: The body of a gentleman sitting up against a tree.

MR DINGEMANS: And can you recall what he was wearing?

MR CHAPMAN: All I could see from the distance I got was he was wearing a dark jacket and light coloured shirt.

MR DINGEMANS: And how close did you get to the body?

MR CHAPMAN: I probably reached about 15 to 20 metres from it.

MR DINGEMANS: Could you see anything at all?

MR CHAPMAN: He was sitting with his back up against a tree and there was an obvious injury to his left arm.

MR DINGEMANS: An obvious injury to his left arm. What was that injury?

(Source)

In short they both claim the body of Kelly was slumped up against a tree. Now, before I continue I must point out that Chapman and Holmes left the body on It's own and contacted the police a short while after initially finding him. They met with police officers, one of whom was DC Graham Coe who was the only person to go back to the scene of Kelly's death. According to reports, he was there for approximately 25 minutes to half an hour on his own inspecting the body, although claimed to have not touched or moved the body in anyway, shape or form.

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According to paramedics who arrived on the scene a while later 2 thing's puzzled them, one of which was related by Coe himself. Firstly there was an alarming lack of blood at the scene of someone in Kelly's position, this is what Coe also mentioned, as did just about everyone else. Blood was present on his left wrist, yes, but not on his clothing and there wasn't much in the surrounding area either. Odd, as he's said to have slit his wrist, and according to the paramedics and other professionals, a wound of this nature would expect to see pints of blood spilt, not what was said to be present which was a small amount to say the least.

Secondly, the body of Kelly seemed to have been quite literally moved from the initial sighting of him slumped up against a tree, and moved a few feet away from the tree - Which would beg the question, why?

According to Mr Bartlett, paramedic:

His testimony – the first time he has talked in such detail – is crucial, as the civilian volunteer searchers who first found the body said it was leaning against a tree. He said: ‘If earlier witnesses said that, then the body had obviously been moved’ by the time he got there.

Mr Bartlett backs up claims made by DC Graham Coe – the first policeman on the scene – about how little blood there was around the body. The paramedic said: ‘I’ve seen more blood at a nosebleed than I saw there.’
However, the Hutton Inquiry said that Dr Kelly had bled to death after cutting a small artery in his wrist.

Having pronounced him dead at 10.07am, they made their way back to their ambulance. But in just a few minutes at the scene Mr Bartlett noted many things that have troubled him ever since.

He said: ‘He was lying flat out some distance from the tree. He definitely wasn’t leaning against it. I remember saying to the copper, “Are you sure he hasn’t fallen out of the tree?”

‘When I was there the body was far enough away from the tree for someone to get behind it. I know that because I stood there when we were using the electrodes to check his heart. Later I learned that the dog team said they had found him propped up against the tree. He wasn’t when we got there. If the earlier witnesses are saying that, then the body has obviously been moved.’

(Source)

As well of this, Kelly being moved after death, he seems to have been placed there prior to the initial finding also:

Amazingly, Chief Inspector (now Superintendent) Alan Young of Thames Valley Police, who headed the investigation into Dr Kelly’s death, did not even give evidence to the Hutton Inquiry.

Significantly, it emerged via a Freedom of Information request in 2008 that a police helicopter with heat-seeking equipment which searched for Dr Kelly on the night he disappeared did not detect his body.

At 2.50am on July 18, 2003, the helicopter flew over the exact spot where Dr Kelly’s body was found by a search party less than six hours later, at 8.30am.

Yet the pathologist who took Dr Kelly’s body temperature at 7pm on the day his body was found determined that Dr Kelly could still have been alive at 1.15am on July 18 — just 95 minutes before the helicopter flew over the patch of woodland.

If that was the case, the body would have been warm enough to be picked up by the helicopter’s heat sensors. Why didn’t the helicopter pick it up? Was it because Dr Kelly did not die where his body was found?

(Sour ce) (Source)

There's also the testimony of the others present who witnesses the position of the body and weirdly, only the police officers seem to report him being near the tree. The others, along with the paramedics who arrived later, point towards the body being moved from It's initial position.

MR DINGEMANS: And what was his position?

POLICE CONSTABLE DEAN FRANKLIN: He was lying on his back with his right hand to his side and his left hand was sort of inverted with the palm facing down (Indicates), facing up on his back.

MR KNOX: Before the paramedics approached Dr Kelly's body, can you remember what position it was in?

POLICE CONSTABLE SAWYER: Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree, a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down. There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist.

VANESSA HUNT (Paramedic)

MR DINGEMANS: And when you got into the wooded area, what did you see?

MS HUNT: There was a male on his back, feet towards us.

MR KNOX: What did you then come across?

MR BARTLETT: They led us up to where the body was laid, feet facing us, laid on its back, left arm out to one side (indicates) and the right arm across the chest.

Dr Nicholas Hunt (Forensic pathologist)

Could you describe the position of the body at the scene?

MR HUNT: Yes, certainly. He was laying on his back near a tree. The left arm was extended out from the body slightly, closer to shoulder level, his right arm was laying across his chest area and his legs were extended out straight in front of him.

MR KNOX: I take it from what you just said he was laying on his back?

MR HUNT: He was, yes.

MR KNOX: Was any part of his body actually touching the tree; can you recall?

MR HUNT: I recall that his head was quite close to branches and so forth, but not actually over the tree.

(Source)

Kelly's body had been moved at some point, and there's no doubt about it at all. And he certainly doesn't seem to have bled to death either, far from it in fact. Multiple witnesses have claimed that there was a severe lack of blood at the scene of the death after all, certainly not enough to kill a person, certainly not one who's said to have quite literally cut through their ulnar artery either, and to slit your wrist in such a way in the first place is considered particularly odd by medical professionals.

But now a team of 13 specialist doctors has compiled a detailed medical dossier that rejects the Hutton conclusion on the grounds that a cut to the ulnar artery, which is small and difficult to access, could not have caused death.

It will be used by their lawyers to demand a formal inquest and the release of Dr Kelly's autopsy report, which has never been published. It will also be sent to Sir John Chilcot's forthcoming inquiry into the Iraq War.

Source

Bearing this in mind, there is of course still the matter of the mysterious pills that Kelly is said to have consumed. Well, as is the case with the mysterious, missing blood, and the slit wrist which wasn't enough to kill a human being, there's also the case of the mysterious missing pills as well as other anomalies surrounding this case.

(Source)

For example we know that Kelly suffered from dysphagia and was known to have a great deal of trouble digesting pills, confirmed by friends and family. It was also revealed that the water bottle found near Dr. Kelly still had a majority of the water in it *which has further led some to suggest that he couldn't have swallowed all of the pills, of which one was left leaving us to assume the maximum he could've taken that day was 29. But at the same time we know that he most probably didn't digest all those missing pills because approximately a third of what was known to kill someone was found in his system.

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Despite this Co-proxamol ingestion is listed as a cause of death. It also does beg the question.. where did the rest of the pills disappear to? Was Kelly really a victim of his own mind, did he really kill himself? I have to be honest, I'm not so sure he did. I can't, on the evidence, believe he was able to. The pills, the odd way in which he's said to have slit his own wrist, and then complete lack of blood, it just doesn't make sense. If he was already dead by the time his wrist was split for example, then I'd find it much easier to believe as that would explain the lack of blood, but really, do we have enough solid evidence to say he was definitely murdered? No. Circumstantially however, I think there's possibly a case.

Something else which doesn't doesn't make sense is the fact that no finger prints of any kind were found on the possessions of Kelly, including the largely full water bottle and pill packets, even the knife he's said to have cut his left wrist with. Bizarre to say the least and potentially evidence, assuming there was another party involved in his death, that they were wiped.

The development is doubly significant because police have already said the knife which Dr Kelly is said to have used to cut his wrist did not have fingerprints on – nor did an open bottle of water found beside his body.

The lack of fingerprints on these items is particularly difficult to explain given that Dr Kelly was not wearing gloves when his body was recovered on July 18, 2003. No gloves were found at the scene.

Dr Kelly is said to have killed himself after being named as the prime source of a BBC report accusing Tony Blair’s government of lying to take Britain into war.

Uniquely, for an unexpected death such as his, no coroner’s inquest has ever been held.

(Source)

According to the Hutton Inquiry, chaired by Lord Hutton, which was brought into effect a short while after the death of Kelly and was officially brought into effect to "investigate the circumstances surrounding the death of David Kelly", they were able to determine the following:

- Nobody could have anticipated that Dr Kelly would take his life
- There was "no underhand [government] strategy" to name him as the source for the BBC's accusations
- Gilligan's original accusation was "unfounded" and the BBC's editorial and management processes were "defective"
- The dossier had not been "sexed up", but was in line with available intelligence, although the Joint Intelligence Committee, chaired by John Scarlett, may have been "subconsciously influenced" by the government
- The Ministry of Defence (MOD) was at fault for not informing Kelly of its strategy that would involve naming him
- That the wording of the dossier had been altered to present the strongest possible case for war within the bounds of available intelligence
- That some of these changes had been suggested by Alastair Campbell
- That reservations had been expressed by experts within the Intelligence Community about the wording of the dossier
- That David Kelly had direct contact with the dissenters within the Defence Intelligence Staff and had communicated their reservations (and his own) to several journalists.
- That, following Kelly's decision to come forward as one of Gilligan's contacts, Alastair Campbell and Geoff Hoon had wanted his identity made public
- That the Prime Minister himself had chaired a meeting at which it was decided that Dr Kelly's name would be confirmed by the Ministry of Defence if put to them by journalists
- That Kelly's name had been confirmed after journalists had made multiple suggestions to the MOD press office.

(Source)

Kelly, to put it simply, was thrown to the wolves, and because of this, according to the Huttonn Inquiry anyway, this was the main cause behind him committing suicide. If he did not commit suicide however, and was taken out, and or assassinated by another party, then why? His involvement in speaking to journalists, as a member of a selective group with such high national security, is surely a motive as far as I can see.

The slitting of the wrist with such minimal blood, suggesting to me it was slit after he had died, the missing pills, the wiping of finger prints, the obvious moving of the body, the fact he told friends there were dark actors involved, that he was looking forward to going back to work and so on and on and on. Death by suicide seems so hard to believe from my point of view, likely but just hard to believe and according to others who would consider themselves good friends with Kelly, an impossible conclusion. Instead, some even claim Kelly was on a hitlist and he was assassinated.

Dr David Kelly was on a hitlist, says UN weapons expert as calls grow for full inquest

Dr Richard Spertzel claimed Dr Kelly was on a 'hitlist' in the final years of his life.

The former head of the UN Biological Section, who worked closely with Dr Kelly in Iraq in the 1990s, has written to Attorney General Dominic Grieve about the 'mysterious circumstances' surrounding the death.

Dr Spertzel said: 'I know that David, as well as myself and a couple of others, were on an Iraqi hitlist. In late 1997, we were told by the Russian embassy in Baghdad. I had no idea what it meant but apparently David and I were high on the priority list.'

He said he and Dr Kelly were told that they were 'numbers three and four' on the list during an inspection trip in Iraq. 'When it first happened I felt right away that David just being associated with the work he'd been doing for the UK government would have made him a high target,' Dr Spertzel said.

'The Iraqi intelligence service did not take kindly to such action so my first reaction [to Dr Kelly's death] was "we'd better watch our backs".'

No inquest has ever been held into Dr Kelly's death. Instead, a public inquiry chaired by Lord Hutton was set up to investigate the circumstances surrounding it.

The inquiry ruled that the 59-year-old committed suicide in woodland near his Oxfordshire home in July 2003 by cutting the ulnar artery in his wrist with a blunt pruning knife.

Dr Spertzel, who is based in Washington where he continues to write and lecture on biological weapons, said: 'My concern about David Kelly's death is exactly what the doctors are saying now - that is, it's virtually impossible to commit suicide by slashing your wrist in that way.

'It just doesn't make sense. It seems to me that they [the British authorities] are intentionally ignoring all this. Something's fishy.'

Dr David Kelly was on a hitlist, says UN weapons expert as calls grow for full inquest

KBG Agent Boris Karpichkov, also seems to suggest that Kelly died as a result of someone else's doing, not his own.

The former Russian spy, who defected from Latvia to Britain in 1998, says the source of his dossier is 'agent' Peter Everett, who lives in Dulwich, South-East London, and until 2006 ran a shadowy firm, Group Global Intelligence Services.

The firm is understood to have employed former MI5 operatives to carry out detective work for corporations.
Mr Karpichkov, who now holds a British passport, claims in his dossier that he worked for Mr Everett too, and that one of their dozens of meetings took place two days after Dr Kelly's body was found.

Mr Everett told him, the former KGB man claims, that Dr Kelly had been ' exterminated' for his ' reckless behaviour'.

Mr Karpichkov says Mr Everett suggested he was himself an 'active field operative' for MI5, and continues: 'He told me that it was extremely uncomfortable, inconsistent and unusual for Dr Kelly to slash his arm in the way he did. He would have lost some blood, but it would not have been fatal.

'He also claimed that it was not a coincidence that Special Branch officers were the ones who first appeared on the scene. They moved Dr Kelly's body to another location, changed the original position of his corpse and took away incriminating evidence.

'He added that the scene where Dr Kelly's body was found was carefully arranged and completely "washed out", including the destruction of all fingerprints.

'When I asked who was behind his death, he [ Mr Everett] answered indirectly, saying the "competing firm", which I took to mean MI6.'

(Source)

Was David Kelly really murdered? I don't know, but I do think It's certainly possible and something that should've been considered right from the start of this horrible, horrible mess. Your thoughts ATS would be greatly appreciated and I hope you enjoyed reading this thread on who I feel was a very, very important figure.

Thank you for your time.

Links and Sources

ATS Threads on the subject

- The Murder of Dr David Kelly, Liveforever8
- Dr David Kelly post mortem to be kept secret for 70 years, Pockets
- David Kelly: 'Many issues unresolved' over death, ronishia
- Dr David Kelly, inquest refused, Billmeister
- Thirteen Doctors Want Inquest into Dr. David Kelly's Death: Embarrassment to UK Government, rich23
- David Kelly: conspiracy theories, SLAYER69
- Did MI5 kill Dr David Kelly?, Agit8dChop



Off-Site links and sources

- David Kelly, Weapons Inspector
- The Hutton Inquiry
- D r David Kelly's body 'had obviously been moved': Paramedic at death scene reveals concerns over Hutton Inquiry
- Law chief to probe KGB agent's claim that David Kelly was 'exterminated'
- Why I know weapons expert Dr David Kelly was murdered, by the MP who spent a year investigating his death
- Dr Kelly 'may have been murdered'
- Riddle of missing fingerprints on Dr David Kelly's 'overdose' pill packs
- Dr David Kelly was on a hitlist, says UN weapons expert as calls grow for full inquest
- 'There wasn't much blood about': Detective who found weapons expert David Kelly's body raises questions over his death

Very good read. S+F

Upon the discussion of the location and posture of the body, i kept thinking perhaps he was not dead when the initial discovery was made.

Whether self-inflicting or not, perhaps the injury Kelly sustained took longer to kill him, as evident by the determination of the body temperature and time of death. Perhaps, knowing he was mortally wounded he travelled to that tree, which could explain the lack of blood at the final location (not explaining lack of blood on himself). Then, perhaps regained consciousness one final time after the initial discovery to move to his final position.

His pre-existing condition, coupled with the pain killers could have an a strange effect.

However, I will not discount the possibility of government involvement.

Anyways. Great read.

not forgetting this...

MediaGuardian, Friday 1 August 2003 18.03 BST

"Heart experts today said it was "unusual" for someone to wear electrode pads while walking following revelations that government scientist David Kelly had four of the special monitors on his chest when his body was found in an Oxfordshire wood.

Dr Kelly - the BBC's source for a report claiming the government altered the contents of a dossier about Iraq - had probably been wearing a 24-hour electro-cardiogram recorder, also known as a Holter monitor, medical experts said.

But it was odd that the pads that are connected to the device had not been removed by doctors and were left attached to his chest, they said.

"If I was in a morgue and his body was presented to me I would have thought it had come out of a coronary care unit or an operating theatre," said Professor Konrad Jamrozik, of Imperial College Hospital London.

"It would be unusual for someone to be walking around wearing these pads," he told the press association.

Another heart specialist, who declined to be named, also said it was "very unusual" for someone to be found wearing the pads."

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by MDDoxs


Interesting. Since he stated previously regarding his whistleblowing that he'd probably "be found dead in a wood", it would suggest he fulfilled his own prophecy if no foul play is involved. What seems more likely to me would be in the absence of foul play he would've chosen to continue living his content life with his family, though.

Great read OP!

This probably happens a lot more than we are aware of, many think back to Matt Simmons death and it's timing, not to mention JFK.

Here is a great Scribd read on the secret government and other mysterious deaths, they outline the case of David Kelly in Chapter One.

However, two medics who examined Kelly's body were surprised that the official reportruled his death a suicide. Paramedic Vanessa Hunt and ambulance technician Dave Bartlettsaid they were struck by how little blood was seen on and around the body of David Kelly,which they thought was inconsistent with a fatal cut of an artery. They had raised the sameconcerns before but offered no alternative theory of the cause of death.

He also said the heart monitor pads found on Kelly's chest were "simply there to makesure he was dead." He also said those should have been removed and suspects the agentsinvolved were disturbed by someone in the process of the killing.

Shrimpton told Jones that in his opinion Dr. Kelly was probably murdered by anintravenous injection of Dextropropoxythene and paracetamol, the constituents of Co-Proxamol, and a muscle relaxant called Succinylcholine.

The problem for someone investigating an assassination bySuccinylcholine is that it metabolizes even after death and you only pick up the metabolites.In other words it's one of those drugs that leave's no trace unless you have a very expertpathologist who really knows what he or she is doing. It's fairly clear to me that the slash tothe wrist was done to disguise the puncture wound. "

Here is the rest of the article detailing many mysterious deaths:

Link

Firstly, WELCOME BACK!
I too believe that there are other factors not revealed in this murder......and i do believe it to be a killing.
The British goverment, is not above such things,(as a million or so dead Iraqis could also witness.....)
To the people who are involved in such intelligence operations....life is indeed cheap.
The obvious lies, and inconsistencies show without a doubt in my mind that this was a murder to stop the man from provong the reasons for the war were bogus.
The fact that a LORD of the british nobility was in charge of the cover up, makes me think that theres an agenda
which is far more sinister than simply attacking Iraq.
The Housde of Lords seems rather rife with such activities.....
Witness the 25 trillion dollar scam revealed by Lord Blakenheath in the house ,and then covered up by Lord Sassoon.....
Therein lies the real power in britain, with the seemingly democratic elections a mere scam to fool the people....
The middle ages never really ended, and the people are held in their eyes, as serfs and vassals undeserving of the knowledge of the priviledged nobility.
Though i stop short of Ickes, "The queen is reptillian", i dosee that power never left the nobility of ritain as they indeed hold most of the wealth of britain......
MY take anyways.....
I hope that the British Public awakens soon from their centuries long slumber.....
Great thread...and i hope the truth prevails in Britain sooner than later...............

reply to post by RoScoLaz


Thank you for that post, and wow, I find that truly fascinating. It's something I had absolutely no idea about as well. As far as I'm able to determine, at no time prior to his death was he in or anywhere near a hospital. That morning he spent replying to friends via email. The only missing time we seem to have is from the moment he walked out the front door of his home at approximately 3pm and the point where he was found dead the next morning close to 9am. And no one, as far as I've seen, have come forward witnessing him in or near a hospital.

Very odd indeed and adds a lot of confusion to this for me.

It seems an almost certainty Dr kelly did not commit suicide. But i think the reasons for his death run so deep and so dark that i doubt we will ever find out the full story on this one.

I remember Walter Basson AKA as Dr Death mentioning him in relation to the secret African biological warfare program other wise known as Project coast (the black bomb). Very scary stuff.

See these videos to see what i mean :

vimeo.com...

vimeo.com...

vimeo.com...

I dont think his death had anything to do with Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction claims. Thats more of a smoke screen for much darker stuff thats been going on between the worlds major governments.

Oh my. I was only vaguely familiar with the Dr. Kelley case, thank you for such a coherent and detailed account of his death and the circumstances surrounding it.

What is so sad is, this is not at all surprising. Too many governments have assassination squads that take out their own citizens when said citizens try to stand up and tell the truth.

More evidence that the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan were pre-planned, and the excuses for the war were out-and-out bald-faced lies. It's all about the money, honey....and apparently, war is the most lucrative business venture out there. I'm sure the companies who went in after the invasion to start on the ground floor of a cleared playing field were also pushing for this war.

There is something terribly wrong with our world when this is the case.

Great write up RA
I have no doubt Dr. Kelly was assassinated most likely by British Intelligence, CIA or Mossad (take your pick), all would have a vested interest in seeing him gone.
I think the story about Iraqi intelligence having him on a "hitlist" is just that, a story.
Saddam wasn't fond of weapons inspectors but any honest enough to say that he wasn't making chemical weapons would actually be in his favor.

As for the missing blood, of course it was missing or the dog would have no doubt discovered it long before they came across Dr. Kelly's body.

It's a complete cover up from the initial investigation and the truth can never be verified as any clues to his death are long since altered or removed.
Even JFK's assassination would be a much easier case to solve that Kelly's.

Very good to see you back and writing up your usual fine quality threads

Well RA welcome back. I see you have done your usual thourgh job in looking into this case S&F.

My thoughts have always been that this was a termination, for what reason I can't say, but the evidence at the site of the body doesn't add up to suicide. At least not to me. I have heard before that slitting of the wrist in that fashion is not fatal.However the electrodes on his chest, which I had not heard of before, may indicate that a current was applied to stop his heart. The pill thing strikes me as wierd. If he knew that he had that digestion problem with them, then why take them? Makes no sense.

I concur that the wrist may have been slashed after death. That would explain the lack of blood. However the fact remains that where he was found may not be the scene of the crime. The possibility exists that he was offed elsewhere and the body was moved to where it was found. The fact that the heat detection gear on the helicopter did not locate him at a time when he may have been still alive would indicate to me that he was killed elsewhere and the body was placed where it was found.

Perhaps the body was moved after discovery because it was in a position which would indicate being placed if discovered by some one who wasn't in the loop, but who was knowledgable of such things. Like a cop on the beat or some such occurence.

Still there is surely more to this than meets the eye. Of course like so many other occurances like this, we will probably never know the truth.

Just like the JFK assassination i think we should really be concentrating on the 'why' and not the 'how'. RA's OP has some great information about the circumstances of the death and mentions the mainstream ideas about the reasons behind the death but as you can see from the 3 vids i posted above David Kelly had been involved in very scary stuff that is hardly ever mentioned. World wide biological mafia is not something you hear every day.

Why would Dr Kelly kill himself? Because he had lied to the Foreign Affairs Committee about not being the source of Andrew Gilligan's story and he knew he would be found out and that his pension would be taken away by the DOD as punishment and he would be disgraced in the eyes of his scientific colleagues. He was a scientist who was highly sensitive about his reputation, which he knew was about to be ruined.

Did he kill himself? I don't believe so.

Why was he killed? The most convincing reason I have found was the information revealed by a friend of his, British author Gordon Thomas. He said that Kelly had been working on a book about his work and MI5 was scared stiff about what secrets highly damaging to the British government he had put in it. MI5 removed his computer a few hours after his death.
www.express.co.uk...

Originally posted by micpsi
Why was he killed? The most convincing reason I have found was the information revealed by a friend of his, British author Gordon Thomas. He said that Kelly had been working on a book about his work and MI5 was scared stiff about what secrets highly damaging to the British government he had put in it. MI5 removed his computer a few hours after his death.
www.express.co.uk...

edit on 3-12-2012 by micpsi because: Typo corrected.

Thats one of the things mentioned in the 3rd video i posted here www.abovetopsecret.com...

There was far more to the story than the iraq weapons claims.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


The two videos you posted with portions of the interview with Dr. Death have clearly been edited. Now I'm not questioning the information in the video. I was just wondering if there is an unedited version avalible. Perhaps there would be further information in an unedited version. Just wondering.

reply to post by lonegurkha


He was quite clearly designing biological weapons for population control in South Africa with the help of many governments including the US and UK. Wouter_Basson is completely unrepentant about is part in Project Coast. Then as micpsi said kelly was thinking of writing a book about it.

The whole video containing the interview plus more info about Kelly , Wouter Basson and world wide biological weapons programs is called Anthrax War.



Just like the JFK murder while people are arguing about the inquest and bad investigations surrounding it they are not concentrating on the bigger picture. Its standard psy-ops stuff, create a badly conducted inquest as a distraction..