Teacher's Reward Program Charges Second-Graders for Bathroom Breaks

Originally posted by smyleegrl
How about a different perspective?

I have a similar rule in my classroom. Why? Because there are three or four students who would go to the bathroom every twenty minutes just to get out of class. Its a given with children.

I also know which kids would never try such a thing...and when one of them comes to me and says its an emergency, they get a free pass. They don't abuse it, either.

After ten years of teaching, you develop a sense for who really needs to go and who's faking. Usually, the kid clutching himself and dancing really needs to go.

With the increased demands of standardized testing, teaching time is safeguarded at all costs. This teacher needs to listen to her students, but since she's a first year teacher, this is probably something her mentor suggested she try to cut down on classroom disruptions. Sometimes, mistakes are made.

I had a bathroom accident when I was in second grade; and you know what? Didn't destroy my self esteem...

Don't get me wrong, what happened is sad. But it was a mistake, hopefully she learned from it, and life goes on.

Thanks for being a teacher, honestly I cant believe why anyone would want this job now.My wife is a teacher,for her education level the pay is terrible, They`re constantly being bashed by the media and the powers that are. They work on an average 12hrs a day and usually one weekend day, hell besides taking classes in the summer and making lesson plans and we usually end up "donating" about $2500 a year for kids,school supplies and school trips. My wife does love her job though. Everytime we are out shopping or out to the mall, children will run up to her and say how much they miss her and what a profound impact shes had in their lives...I guess thats why she does it. On the other hand with basically the government telling what and how to teach and now theres going to be a grading system on how well the students do, tied directly to her job pay and promotions. Maybe the parents should be graded on their skills as well.

To bad our Government didnt have the same rules apply to them. :@@

While I feel this was a mistake that might have been avoidable we dont know the whole story, for all we know this kid was one of those kids who asked to go every 5 mins but this time he needed too.

This reminds me of how they push stories about a few bad apples in the military and conviently forget the rest of us.

Bill

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


And are teachers not allowed to make mistakes?

I agree, what happened was the result of a stupid policy. But just like every profession, there's a learning curve. Experience brings its own rewards and all that.

I'm sure this teacher feels terrible about what happened. I don't think she was on a power trip or sadisticly keeping her students from the bathroom. But that's just my humble opinion, of course.

Originally posted by Strictsum
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

Yep, you're right, most kids would try to hold it and buy candy instead.

It doesn't say in the article exactly how this system worked. I wonder if the kids started out with a certain number of boyd bucks they were able to spend or if they started with zero and worked up. The difference being no child would be able to use the restroom in the beginning because none of them had any points. I think it implies a zero starting point.

I am way overthinking this.

Strict

Apparently the children "earned" these "Boyd Bucks" for good behavior and the implied starting point is zero. The kid was going to speak up, according to the news article, but chose not to because he had zero "Boyd Bucks". This is one of the sad parts of the story if true.

It is one that also speaks to the parents of this child too. Hopefully they see this to help their little one grow and understand that sometimes, regardless of "rules", you do what you need to do.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Oh I certainly don't say we roll out a guillotine and give the kids all an object lesson in how Marie Antoinette met her fate. Hardly...I mean, perspective is what the Districts are losing on a daily basis. It's something we as parents ought to work harder to keep, right?

I just hope she IS disciplined in an appropriately PUBLIC way. Public in terms of the students that have to deal with this. My experience both as a student and now as a parent is that 'nothing to see here...move along...we all make mistakes..' is the stock standard approach when it's the teacher, but called a cheap cop-out and excuse for students. I hope it's not simply glossed over for the unthinkable humiliation this child suffered over it.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Wrabbit is very capable of answering, but from what I took from what that fur-ball -- er, you don't mind do you Wrab? -- stated was the lesson that the children experiencing this policy, the lack of any consequences placed upon the adult, and what happens when you don't follow the rules.

These stories are stacking up, where schools, their teachers and administrators, are free of any consequences for their poor social experiments and ideas. I had to pull my oldest out of his class last year because the teacher wanted all the kids to be the way she wanted them to be. Quiet, obedient, memorizing drones who should not ask why; sadly, this isn't an exaggeration.

Her words to me, on our final meeting where "Your son asks too many questions." In turn I said "Isn't that a healthy sign of curiosity and lust for knowledge?" What sealed her fate for me moving my son was her reply. She said "I don't know why he is asking the questions, he has the books." That isn't a teacher. That is a leech who has been sucking the tit of a forgiving system that allows her to "educate" children 8 months out of the year.

I digress.....teachers can make mistakes, for they are human and to be human is to err. However, not addressing that mistake, in front of the children who are seeing no consequences to a bad decision, is dangerous and shows incompetence of that school's leadership.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Still schools don;t teach kids how to think on thier own anymore they just teach them what to think...

That's right. School is indoctrination.

Start teaching the little sheep early that you may not step out of line. We control everything. Including when you "go".

quote]
Example:
Little Suzy has earned her first two "boyd bucks". She is excited and can't wait to spend it on the rewards that Teacher Boyd has offered. In this excitement, she realizes she has to go pee, but doesn't want to "waste" that two "boyd bucks" on a bathroom break. Instead, she holds it and holds it and holds it......


Until she gets a urinary tract infection.

That teacher is an idiot. But like I said... start indoctinating the sheep early to know they are not in chage of ANYTHING, including their bodily functions.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I digress.....teachers can make mistakes, for they are human and to be human is to err. However, not addressing that mistake, in front of the children who are seeing no consequences to a bad decision, is dangerous and shows incompetence of that school's leadership.

Now I agree with this. When I goof, I let the kids know. It's how we grow and learn, and a valuable lesson to admit our shortcomings and mistakes.

I hate to hear about your sons's experience. That's not a teacher, but a programmed robot. Unfortunately, it's becoming more common as the governments tighten control on what we teach and how we teach it.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Totally.

Teacher makes mistake and nothing happens at all, the kids are not really learning anything (irony!), especially as the kid in question was basically punished for needing to pee after not enough good behavior.

It reminds me of when I was a kid in Sunday School (Catholic indoctrination). I was curious, and very interested, until I asked too many questions, and pointed out contradictions, etc... I was then kicked out and sent to sit in the hallway for being a "disruptive influence". Yeah, I wasn't a sheep I guess...

Ah, fourth grade my son was one of those bathroom pass misusers. He has high functioning autism and would request to leave for the restroom 5 or 6 times during the day. I got together with his teacher and we put together a point sheet for him. I talked to him about his actual needs versus "get out of class" time and we started with shooting for three bathroom passes or less (besides the regular breaks, lunch, etc). Each week he stayed within the 3 or less, I gave him a reward. Then we went to two. At the end of the month, he was only requesting when he actually needed the restroom. But both the teacher and I made clear that using the restroom when needed was completely acceptable. Now he's in 8th grade and this problem has never come up again.

Originally posted by Krakatoa
It reminds me of when I was a kid in Sunday School (Catholic indoctrination). I was curious, and very interested, until I asked too many questions, and pointed out contradictions, etc... I was then kicked out and sent to sit in the hallway for being a "disruptive influence". Yeah, I wasn't a sheep I guess...

Hee-hee-hee! Glad I'm not the only one. I got kicked out of Baptist bible study two or three times (high school group no less) for being too logical.

Just a couple years ago I took a class at my local junior college, as a full grown adult, with other full grown adults. It was a night class.

The teacher told us there would be no bathroom breaks during his 90 minute class, and if anyone can't contain their bladder long enough and had a problem with it, then it wasn't the class for them.

Needless to say I was shocked, so were others, especially since many of us came straight from work to the class and ate dinner on the way, or worked out after work before the class, and were re-hydrating ourselves. A number of arguments proceeded to occur during that semester.

Goes back to the common theme that teachers love their authority, and have spent far too much time in the little world they created in their classrooms than outside in the real world. People drink water, then they pee, since the dawn of mankind. The idea teachers can't come to grips with that is mindblowing.

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by hawkiye
Before we yanked our now grown kids out and home schooled them we told them if you really need to go you just get up and go even if the teacher tells you not to and we will deal with the teacher. We also told the school that was our policy and we never had any big problems with it that I recall. Still schools don;t teach kids how to think on thier own anymore they just teach them what to think. Home schooling is so much easier then people think. We never regretted pulling them and discovered we could do everything in 2-3 hours and wondered what the heck they were doing in school for 5-7 hours.. When my daughter got into college after a week she said Dad the kids in there don't know anything...

Sorry, OP, this is kinda off topic, but I wanted to address this reply.

Hawiye,

The reason we need 7 hours in school to teach what you could in 3 has to do with the ability levels and number of students in the room. For example, I have two ESL students who speak limited English. I have to spend extra time with them because of the language issue. Then, I have to separate my students into small groups (based on understanding of topic) and work with them on their level.

The kids who are home-schooled get one or two on one attention; you work on the child's level constantly, and you control the information presented. Its a heck of a more effective system. Which is why I think homeschooling is a great choice for most people (there are some who shouldn't do it, but thats a different story).

Actually the 2-3 hours was the time the kids spent not us we just directed them assigned them and checked their work and helped when they had a problem answered questions etc they were mostly self directed and this fostered a great environment for learning to think for themselves and figure things out so I am still not convinced they need that much time in schools even with larger classes except a you mention for some kids. but those who do should have separate classes.

I agree most should home schooled or at least charter schooled or form a home school coop with other parents rather then let their kids get indoctrinated in today's schools. Not that there are not some good teachers out there in schools but they are often censored on what and how they can teach these days.

Originally posted by MysticPearl
Just a couple years ago I took a class at my local junior college, as a full grown adult, with other full grown adults. It was a night class.

The teacher told us there would be no bathroom breaks during his 90 minute class, and if anyone can't contain their bladder long enough and had a problem with it, then it wasn't the class for them.

Needless to say I was shocked, so were others, especially since many of us came straight from work to the class and ate dinner on the way, or worked out after work before the class, and were re-hydrating ourselves. A number of arguments proceeded to occur during that semester.

Goes back to the common theme that teachers love their authority, and have spent far too much time in the little world they created in their classrooms than outside in the real world. People drink water, then they pee, since the dawn of mankind. The idea teachers can't come to grips with that is mindblowing.

edit on 2-12-2012 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)

Anyone put that idiot in his place? I certainly would have....

hmm odd story to say the least. I mean on one hand you can tell when a kid is really going to burst, you can just see it in their face. So I wonder if she said no and he just did it anyways to spite her. I mean they are allowed 3 already plus recess and lunch and can win even more bathroom breaks, so why didn't he have any bucks, is he a trouble maker and so wetting himself might not be out of character if he was trying to act out. Or maybe He is a really good boy and just spent them all the day before?

I forget how elementary school works, is second grade still on the half day schedule, five hour, or seven hour? If only five, three bathroom breaks, lunch and recess plus you can get even more time just by being good? I don't know, sounds like a pretty fair system. Depends on how system is set up. If you get the bucks for just showing up and keeping mouth shut and can spend what ever when ever, that's pretty legit LOL. If she just hands them out all willy nilly to who ever she feels was good for the day and the bucks are rare, well then that's rigged. I have had teachers do similar systems over the years from youth. Some lasted all year some were by week and you could either win toys, small walkman things, food or treats from cafe.

One guy even had contest for a huge breakfast at end of year if our combined "good score" was high enough but we were the trouble maker class he'd always say haha and he was right , we did almost beat the other class, you know what, he still brought in like 200 dollars worth of breakfast for us that day and said " even though you guys are my trouble class, you are my favorite" ^^ I do believe one teacher even had bathroom breaks as one of the items on the list, but she was a cool teacher anyways that let people go when ever so it was a useless item haha. So you see even good memories can come of these. ^^

I have had many teachers set up similar things or checklists of people who go over the years. When you reached a certain amount she wouldn't let you go any more. I've had other teachers flat out say no, even to the girls (middle school to university) saying if you knew you had to go should have gone before class.

Kids get bored. They are in school to learn and some learn real fast you can get out of boring class and go waste time in the bathroom. Reading comics, getting the next answers to test or quiz ^^ or just eating the clock up ^^. Hell most probably have smart phones with access to internet and just go to the bathroom to look up answers to a test lol or surf web.

I wet myself at school once or twice might have even crapped myself I know I did in college ^^(and I learned burritos and beer before class=bad idea) didn't phase me in the least lol. Have no record, went on to private highschool ,have degrees, nice car, decent house, and safe neighborhood. Hell wetting my pants probably made me stronger 8o)

There is an obvious psychological truth which a lot of people fail to understand. According to conventional wisdom, a child should be taught how to behave in a sensible and respectable manner through strict disciplinary rules and regulations. They should be taught how to fall in line and respect authority by placing very strict rules on their behavior, what they can and cannot do is very carefully managed and monitored. This is absolutely NOT correct.

The stricter the rules put in place only increases the desire of that child to "break free" from their bondage and live on their own terms. They grow a hatred for the system and begin to despise the authorities pushing those rules on them. I've known several families where the parents have absurdly strict rules for their children, and there is always at least one child in those families who goes through an unusually strong rebellious phase.

They do this because they feel suffocated, the hatred inside them slowly builds and builds until they simply explode and disregard any and all rules and stick their finger up at the system. Their resentment for the strict rules dictating their lives reaches a point where they rebel against authority in order to live free in the way they want to live. They don't care how they are labelled for rebelling against the system, they take pride in being labelled an outcast or rebel.

However, when a person is treated with respect and shown that they have self responsibility and that they are responsible for their own actions, they don't feel suffocated by overbearing authority figures. The schooling system doesn't reach a sufficient level of freedom until you get into university. In university you are pretty much free to leave and go when you want. You are responsible for how you take part in lectures and the lecturer will treat you like an equal person.

But by then you've already been heavily indoctrinated by an overbearing system which hammers down on us relentlessly until we either completely submit to the system and become a mindless slave or we rebel against it. The problem with a lot of teachers is that they are complete control freaks. If you step even slightly out of line you'll get a harsh lashing. They don't give you any real degree of freedom or respect as a responsible individual.

This story is a prime example of just how far some of these control freaks take it. In this particular case the teacher has devised some absurdly strict system which dictates what each student can and cannot do, right down to carefully managing how they use the bathroom. The teacher obviously thinks that such strict rules will teach the students discipline and craft them into obedient little people, but the teacher is actually doing the opposite.

This boy will most likely despise the system for the rest of his life. He will become extremely sensitive to absurd rules which don't make sense, rules like the one which led him to pee his pants and humiliate himself... and for what, he will ask. It will eat him up on the inside and his resentment for silly overbearing rules will grow deep inside him like a plague until one day he simply refuses to fall in line and obey such ridiculous rules which treat him like a slave.

At the end of the day the best solution is a balance between rules and freedom. Teaching them the value of laws and rules is important, but at the same time they need to be treated like an individual, not like a puppet which can be carefully controlled by pulling strings and punishing them for tiny little stupid things. People will react most productively to a good balance between these things. An excess of rules and control is bad, just as an excess in freedom can be bad for young children.

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
hmm odd story to say the least. I mean on one hand you can tell when a kid is really going to burst, you can just see it in their face. So I wonder if she said no and he just did it anyways to spite her. I mean they are allowed 3 already plus recess and lunch and can win even more bathroom breaks, so why didn't he have any bucks, is he a trouble maker and so wetting himself might not be out of character if he was trying to act out. Or maybe Hess a really good boy and just spent them all the day before?

Point being that a reward system shouldn't be tied to a naturally occurring bodily function. Children aren't known to go to the restroom as soon as they realize they have to go. By tying them together, it places a child into a quasi-economic situation; save these "bucks" or go to the bathroom. In any case, it matters not that he had none or he had 50 of them. The fact he did have none, led him to not even ask the teacher for permission.

Kids get bored. They are in school to learn and some learn real fast you can get out of boring class and go waste time in the bathroom. Reading comics, getting the next answers to test or quiz ^^ or just eating the clock up ^^. Hell most probably have smart phones with access to internet and just go to the bathroom to look up answers to a test lol or surf web.

Probable, but not likely. Most 2nd graders are not toting around smart-phones...yet. You are also correct that kids will find ways of getting out of things, but the large majority, most likely just need to get to the bathroom.

This teacher sucks, in my humble opinion. This is an issue that always bothered me when I was growing up. So many teachers do not like letting kids go to the bathroom during class.

This is the reason that I learned...Instead of asking if I could go to the bathroom...To say " I'm going to the bathroom". I found they were much less likely to say no, if I worded it that way...

I recommend that any person with kids, teach their children to do that rather than ask...

I can understand perhaps that teachers might be concerned that the kids are just asking to go to the bathroom, to waste time and get out of class for a while..But if that is something they are concerned about, they need to handle that on an individual basis.

If a kid keeps saying they need to go to the bathroom and are just going to goof off and not actually use the bathroom, then they need to have a talk with that kid and work something out with them... Don't punish the whole class for the actions of one or a few...

To deny a kid or anyone else the use of the bathroom when they need it? It's gross...

Adults at work have the RIGHT to use the bathroom, if I recall. Your boss is not allowed to deny you use of the bathroom... So why do we treat our children this way? It's cruel, if you ask me.

If you need to go, you need to go... So let my people go!

Peace and love.

why do teachers have this insane obsession of not letting kids go to the washroom.

how many kids peed their pants or sat uncomfortably for 45 mins waiting for recess because they might be scared to ask the teachers to use a toilet.

what century are we in. what's the big deal of peeing in a toilet that causes teachers to turn into totalitarian dictators.

why is this:

student: "miss, can i go to the washroom"
teacher: "yes".

so unbelievable a concept to understand for what i suppose is a highly educated person.