The Heavenly conflict of the Aryans

I want to consider here the Divine conflict and schism in the Aryan traditions of the Hindu Vedic writings and the Zoroastrian Avesta, a subject of sprawling complexity and controversy, accordingly, the only place to start is Ireland, and the arrival there of the Tuatha de danann ,my reason being i consider their arrival there a result of this Divine conflict.

According to Lebor Gabála Érenn, they came to Ireland "in dark clouds" and "landed on the mountains of [the] Conmaicne Rein in Connachta; and they brought a darkness over the sun for three days and three nights". According to a later version of the story, they arrived in ships on the coast of the Conmaicne Mara's territory (modern Connemara). They immediately burnt the ships "so that they should not think of retreating to them; and the smoke and the mist that came from the vessels filled the neighboring land and air. Therefore it was conceived that they had arrived in clouds of mist".

It is God who suffered them, though He restrained them
they landed with horror, with lofty deed,
in their cloud of mighty combat of spectres,
upon a mountain of Conmaicne of Connacht.
Without distinction to descerning Ireland,
Without ships, a ruthless course
the truth was not known beneath the sky of stars,
whether they were of heaven or of earth.


en.wikipedia.org...

There is a story that they came to Ireland in flying ships but could not land as the Fomorians had set up a great energy field that they could not penetrate. So they had to circle Ireland nine times before finding a breach in the energy field and setting down on Sliabh an Iarainn (The Iron Mountains) in Co. Leitrim.


They prospered under their two great heroes Nuada of the Silver Arm and Lugh of the Long Arm. They were eventually defeated by the Milesians at Teltown. As they were a magical people they decided to go underground into another dimension of space and time the entrances to which are at many sites around Ireland; one of the most famous being Brugh na Boinne (Newgrange).

It was reputed that only iron weapons could injure them. They became like gods to the later Celtic people and were worshipped as such. They became known as the people of the Sidhe (mounds) and there are many Faery Mounds in existence in Ireland today

The Tuatha de danann as seen had mysterious origins, a race associated with magical power and artifacts, four artifacts from the four cities they were understood as departing from;

The Dagda's Cauldron
The Spear of Lugh
The Stone of Fal
The Sword of Light of Nuada

To understand their magical background one has to examine the tradition of the Danavas

In Vedic mythology the Danavas were a race of the Asuras.

The Danavas were the sons of Danu, who in turn was a daughter of Daksha. Danu is connected with the waters of heavens and she is probably associated with the formless, primordial waters that existed prior to the creation. The name is connected with the PIE root *danu,"river" or "any flowing liquid". The Danavas revolted against the Devtas under the leadership of Bali and others, but were defeated In the Rig Veda, nearly all the demons described as being defeated by the Devas are Danavas..

en.wikipedia.org...(Hinduism)

In fact, the term Danu or Danava (the plural of Danu) appears to form the substratum of Indo-European identity at the base of the Hellenic, Illyro-Venetic, Italo-Celtic, Germanic and Balto-Slavic elements. The northern Greeks were also called Danuni. Therefore, the European Aryans could probably all be called Danavas

Danava also means a serpent or a dragon which is not only a symbol of wisdom but of power and both Vedic and ancient European lore have their good and bad dragons or serpents

In the Rig Veda, Danu like Dasyu refers to inimical people and is generally a term of denigration The Danavas or descendants of Danu are generally enemies of the Vedic people and their Gods. Therefore, just as the Deva-Asura or Arya-Dasyu split is reflected in the split between the Vedic Hindus and the Persians, one can propose that the Deva-Danava split reflects another division in the Vedic people, including that between the Proto-Indian Aryans and the Proto-European Aryans. In this process the term Danu was adopted by the Proto-Europeans and became denigrated by later Vedic people.

, “Irish epic contains many episodes of the struggle between the Children of Domnu, representing darkness and evil, and the Children of Danu, representing light and good. Moreover, the Children of Domnu are never completely overcome or eradicated from the world. Symbolically, they are the world. The conflict is between the ‘waters of heaven’ and the ‘world.’” The same thing could be said of the Vedic wars of Devas and Danavas or the Puranic/Brahmana wars of Devas and Asuras.

www.vedanet.com...

We find then that the Danavas were the Asura, a faction in the Divine conflict of the Devas and Asura.

In general, in the earliest text, the Rigveda, the Asura preside over moral and social phenomena. Among the Asura are Varuna, the guardian of Ṛtá, and Aryaman, the patron of marriages. Conversely, the Devas preside over natural phenomena. Among the Devas are the Ushas, whose name means “dawn”, and Indra, the leader of the Devas. However, by the time that the Brahmana texts were written, the character of the Asura had become negative.

In later texts, such as the Puranas and the Itihasas, the Devas are the good beings, and the Asura are the bad ones. According to the Bhagavad Gita (16.6), all beings in the universe assume either the divine qualities (Daivi Sampad) or the material qualities (Asuri Sampad). The sixteenth chapter of theBhagavad Gita describes the divine qualities briefly and the materialistic qualities at length. In summary, the Gita (16.4) says that the Asuric qualities are pride, arrogance, conceit, anger, harshness, and ignorance.

Bhargava believes that, in most of the ancient hymns, the word, Asura, is always used as an adjective meaning ‘powerful’ or ‘mighty’., Indra is described as Asura. Five times, he is said to possess asurya, and once he is said to possess asuratva. Agni has total of 12 Asura descriptions, Varuna has 10, Mitra has eight, and Rudra has six. Bhargava gives a count of the word usage for every Vedic deity.

Moreover, Bhargava states that the word slowly assumed a negative connotation toward the end of the Rig Vedic period. The Avesta, the book of the Zoroastrians, describes their supreme God as Ahura Mazda (compare Vedic Asura Medhira) – Mighty and Wise. .

mayadanawa.wordpress.com...

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the Sanskrit deva- derives from Indo-Iranian *dev- which in turn descends from the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) word, *deiwos, originally an adjective meaning "celestial" or "shining"

Also deriving from PIE *deiwos, and thus cognates of deva, are Lithuanian Dievas (Latvian Dievs, Prussian Deiwas), Germanic Tiwaz (seen in English "Tuesday") and the related Old Norse Tivar (gods), and Latin deus "god" and divus "divine", from which the English words "divine", "deity", French "dieu", Portuguese "deus", Spanish "dios" and Italian "dio.

As seen then in the Hindu tradition the Asura enter into conflict with the Devas and are seen as the negative faction in the conflict, whereas in the Avesta of Zoroastrianism or Mithraism this is reversed, the Asura or Ahura are the positive faction in a Dualistic conflict against the untruth of the Devas.

The term Asura is linguistically related to the Ahuras of Zoroastrianism, but has, in that religion, a different meaning. The term applies to three deities–(Ahura Mazda, Mithra, and Apam Napat). Furthermore, there is no direct opposition between the Ahuras and the Daevas: The fundamental opposition in Zoroastrianism is not between groups of deities but between Asha (truth) and Druj (falsehood). The relationship between the Ahuras and Daevas is an expression of that opposition: on the one hand, the Ahuras, like all of the other Yazatas, are defenders of Asha. On the other hand, the Daevas are, in the earliest texts, deities that are to be rejected because they are misled by “the lie”


The supposition, regarding the existence of the dichotomy between Ahuras/Asuras and Daevas/Devas in Indo-Iranian times, was discussed at length by F.B.J. Kuiper.[1] The dichotomy is evident in the earliest texts of either culture, though neither the Rigveda’s Asuras nor the Gathas’ Daevas are ‘demons’. However, sometimes the deities cooperate. Nevertheless, the demonisation of the Asuras in post-Rigvedic India and the demonisation of the Daevas in Zoroastrian Iran took place “so late that the associated terms cannot be considered a feature of Indo-Iranian religious dialectology

mayadanawa.wordpress.com...


The schism isn't an inate quality of the religions at the formative basis, but something that arose, a dispute of opinion. But to look at the actual conflict;

Listen, once more, O ruler of the Madras, to what I will say unto thee, about what happened, O lord, in the battle between the gods and the Asuras in the days of yore!

. Between the gods and the Asuras, each desirous of vanquishing the other, there happened a great battle, O king, which had Takara for its evil (root). . . Those Asuras then, filled with joy . . .and having settled it among themselves about the construction of the three cities [Tripura], selected for the purpose the great Asura Maya, the celestial artificer, knowing no fatigue or decay, and worshipped by all the Daityas and Danavas. Then Maya, of great intelligence, by the aid of his own ascetic merit, constructed the three cities . . . all in such a way as to revolve in a circle, O lord of Earth!

hose three Daitya kings, soon assailing the three worlds with their energy, continued to dwell and reign, and began to say,—"Who is he called the Creator?" . . . Crowned with success by means of austere penances, those enhancers of the fears of the gods sustained, O king, no diminution [sic] in battle. Stupified then by covetousness and folly, and deprived of their senses, all of them began to shamelessly exterminate the cities and towns established all over the universe. Filled with pride . . . the wicked Danavas ceased to show any respect for anybody.

The gods said,—"Gathering all forms that may be found in the three worlds and taking portions of each, we will, O Lord of the gods, construct a car [vimana] of great energy for thee. It will be a large car, the handy-work of Viswakarman, designed with intelligence."—Saying this, those tigers among the gods began the construction of that car . . . the Mind became the ground upon which that car stood, and Speech the tracks upon which it was to proceed. Beautiful banners of various hues waved in the air. With lightning and Indra's bow [celestial weapons?] attached to it, that blazing car gave fierce light.

Thus equipt, that car shone brilliantly, like a blazing fire in the midst of the priests officiating at a sacrifice. Beholding that car properly equipt, the gods became filled with wonder. Seeing the energies of the entire universe united together in one place, O sire, the gods wondered, and at last represented unto that illustrious Deity that the car was ready. After, O monarch, that best of cars had thus been constructed by the gods . . . Sankara placed upon it his own celestial weapons . . . the gods repaired unto the Grandsire, and inclining him to grace, said these words . . . 'A car [vimana] has been constructed by us, equipt with many wonderful weapons . . .'

Then Mahadeva, terrifying the very gods, and making the very Earth tremble, ascended that car resolutely . . . When that boon-giving Lord, that despeller of the fears of the three worlds, thus proceeded, the entire universe, all the gods, O best of men, became exceedingly gratified . . . having ascended the car [Sankara], set out for the Asuras . . . to the spot where the Daityas are!

When the boon-giving Brahman, having ascended the car, set out for the Asuras . . . towards that spot where triple city . . . stood, protected by the Daityas and Danavas . . . The triple city then appeared immediately before that god of unbearable energy, that deity of fierce and indescribable form, that warrior who was desirous of slaying the Asuras. The illustrious deity . . . sped that shaft which represented the might of the whole universe, at the triple city. . . loud wails of woe were heard from those cities as they began to fall . . . Burning those Asuras, he threw them down into the Western Ocean. Thus was the triple city burnt and thus were the Danavas exterminated by Maheswara

www.atlantisquest.com...



Thus in the Hindu account the Devas resort to Vimanas and the Asura get their come uppance, the Daityas are a sub-section of the Asura, the giants;

In Hinduism, the Daityas (दैत्‍य) are a clan or race or Asura as are the Danavas. Daityas were the children of Diti and the sage Kashyapa. They were a race of giants who fought against the Devas because they were jealous of their Deva half-brothers. The female Daityas are described as wearing jewelry the size of boulders

en.wikipedia.org...

So the Cities of the Asura are destroyed,there are refugees/survivors from such, and this leads to my opening accounts of the arrival of the Tuatha de Danu in Ireland.

It has to be said also that in the struggle between religious ideologies the followers of Asura tradition are losing quite badly also, the humbers of those who subscribe to the Avesta is minimal, the Asura generally land upon the highest mountain and end up relegated to the deepest underground caverns waiting to re-emerge, as in the tales of the Sidhe, or the Vara of Yima, or the Hoddmímis;

en.wikipedia.org...


Perhaps also the Untersberg for good measure.


All in all this is something of a sketchy background, but a subject i find fascinating and there are aspects that need to be discussed which previously haven't been, though there are aspects which have...

Here is a piece from an excellent Zoroastrian site which tries to understand what the essential faultlines of the conflict are, obviously from an Asura favouring;

If the qualities of the gods reflect the values of the worshippers, then for asura worshippers building and maintaining a peaceful society based on law and order was a priorities. For the deva worshippers, the priority would have been the exercise of power through might and fear. The asuras are ethical where the devas are materialistic. While in the Rig Veda both deities and their respective allies are worshipped, Indra and deva worship clearly take precedence. The largest number of Rig Vedic hymns are dedicated to Indra - nearly 250 out of a total of 1028. Agni, an asura, is invoked in about 200 hymns, a greater number than the number of hymns dedicated to Varuna.

In Buddhism, the asuras are seen as lesser gods who are never satisfied and who continuously strive to better themselves. Zoroastrianism sees continuously striving for improvement towards excellence as a fundamental purpose of life.

The characteristics assigned to the devas and asuras reflected what beliefs the rulers and their supporting priest wished promote in society. The ideal of continuously striving to improve oneself could have promoted ambition amongst the common people, while some rulers and priests may have thought it more desirable to promote satisfaction or resignation to one's lot in life - a life that had been divinely ordained. Rulers and priests so inclined would have promoted deva worship that included the caste system rather than asura worship that saw working to better oneself as a virtue and not a sin.

As in our example above, the differences between what the devas and asuras represented became differences in core beliefs, values, the nature of human beings, and the organization of society. These differences appear to have become strong enough to produce a deep societal divide - a schism - with the deva worshippers on one side, and the asura and Mazda worshippers on the other side.

www.heritageinstitute.com...


Like i said, a great site and one that looks at the histroical Aryan homeland, the Airyana Vaeja



www.heritageinstitute.com...


I'll throw in a link to the Avesta for those who might care to read about the Thirty three Masters of Asha and the eye of Ahura Mazda...


www.avesta.org...


Which also has the tale of Yima and the Vara naturally;


www.avesta.org...

Awesomeness, I love trying to fit all the pieces together in search for a cohesive ancient truth that is surely there. I'm still reading your OP, but I would like to highly recommend a book called, "From the Ashes of Angels" by Andrew Collins.

Sadly, he is so obstinate about his premise for research that his conclusions are myopic throughout. However the collection of research that is presented in this book is worth its weight in gold, IMO, for someone with a more open frame of mind and perspective.

Many threads could easily be made with the wealth of ancient religion and civilization information in his book.

Back to reading.... S&F..as usual

ETA: It would be of particular interest to figure out the corresponding entity of Bolon Yokte from these other ancient belief systems. Just like Nimrod = Orion = Osiris, etc.

okay, back to reading....

reply to post by stupid girl



Thanks, i read that book some time ago and it did intrigue me and cause me to inquire furthur, it has that value.


What i present here i think is difficult and probably obscure to many, but i do think it provides a perspective for a conflict which all the major religions have within their basis, and which hopefully i have demonstrated may not be as clear cut, in terms of goodies and baddies as some believe...

Outstanding work, OP! Star and Flag.

I don't have the background in the Vedas and Zoroastrainism, but I LOVE the idea of connecting them to the Tuatha. Fascinating. I'll have to come back and dig into this some more.

reply to post by Stunspot



Thanks, the Tuatha de danann have all the traits and qualities of the Danavas/Asura, the accounts of this race arriving in Ireland that can only be understood in background terms of the traditions of the Avestta and Vedic scriptures is truly mysterious and inspiiring...it's a pity they sometimes got classed as Demons

According to the Annals of the Four Masters, the Tuatha De Danann ruled Ireland from 1897 to 1700 BC.

"It is said, in the Book of the Dun Coe that wise men do not know the origin of the Tuatha De Danann, but that it seems likely they came from heaven, on account of their intelligence and for the excellence of their knowledge." It is said that their hold on those in Ireland was so strong that not even the Christian transcribers could deny their existence as a non-human race of intelligent being in Ireland (although they frequently put them in league with evil demons).


While much of the story of the Tuatha de Danann has been distorted over time, there is growing evidence that the story is based on fact. Remains from some of the battlefields have been found which cast a different light on the story as a whole. No longer are the Tuatha considered just Irish legend and fairies. Although three of the treasures are obvious stories proclaiming the glories of their Kings, the fourth item sounds very much like the legendary Stone of Scone that sits in Edinburgh today.

www.gods-heros-myth.com...

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Excellent post, very good.
I had absolutely NO idea about the interaction between those cultures so long ago, amazing!
Keep it up man, now I want to know the end of the story
S & F for you my friend.

reply to post by Kantzveldt



One furthur consideration is where were the four cities of the Tuatha ne Danu located or the three as mentioned in Hindu scripture of the Danavas, it is seemingly futile to attempt to locate them on Earth as apparantly they were in orbit around the Earth;

Shiva as Tripurantaka is accredited with destroying three mythical cities of the asuras. Out of eight legends narrating Shiva's role as the destroyer of evil, the Tripura-samhara (Destruction of the three citadels) legend relates to the destruction of the three evil cities Tripura by Shiva.
The demon Taraka had three off-springs named Taarakaaksha, Kamalaaksha and Vidyunmaali. These demon princes performed severe penance towards the creator-god Brahma and obtained the boon of immense power. Brahma, on being pleased with them, presented each one of them an aerial city revolving in the sky. The legend further states that these three cities or forts (Tripura)continued to revolve in the sky for hundreds of years. In the course of revolving, the three used would converge very rarely. The boon granted them that they would live for a thousand years in the three invincible, moving cities and that they would be destroyed only by an arrow that could merge the three forts into one, and set them to fire.


The asuras well-entrenched in their aerial cities would mount attacks on the devas (gods) and the rishis (sages), and always harassed them.


The asuras had taken over the three cities of the gods and the allusion was also to the triple passions of Pride, Anger and Delusion in the site of the devotee. These cities of the demons needed to be destroyed by Shiva when they were felled by a single arrow. The Tripura myth also had a cosmo-symbolical dimension where Shiva regained for the gods a universe from which they were ousted. His mythical arrow was equivalent in efficacy with the rites performed by the gods with Agni as their agent. These cities were the work of the demon mastermind - Maya. It was a world conquest, a universal conflagration that wiped out the demons from the earth, air and sky."

en.wikipedia.org...



The destruction of the Triple ring city and throwing down the Danavas into the Western Ocean of course has correspondances with the later Atlantis myth, but if there is derivation in Platos tale it has overlooked that the cities were never upon Earth.


The throwing down into the Western ocean does find correspondance with the descent though of the Tuatha ne Danu from the skies into Ireland.



reply to post by drakus



Thanks, of course the story is ongoing and the ending is not known, how it ends in prophecy differs according to the factional religious alignments.

reply to post by Kantzveldt



Enjoyed reading that, great thread and looks like we have a common interest in this. The Denavas just means the sons of the goddess Danu

en.wikipedia.org...

Whilst tuatha de danann in Irish means the children or tribe of the goddess Danu

en.wikipedia.org...

They are therefore one and the same people otherwise know as the Aryans

This article shows how the Proto-European Aryans, like the Celts, were originally a Vedic people called the Danavas or Sudanavas (good Danavas) connected to Vedic kings, sages and yogis. It is adapated from Frawley’s Rig Veda and the History of India. Many ancient European peoples, particularly the Celts and Germans, regarded themselves as children of Danu, with Danu meaning the Mother Goddess, who was also, like Sarasvati in the Rig Veda, a river Goddess. The Celts called themselves “Tuatha De Danaan”, while the Germans had a similar name. Ancient European river names like the Danube and various rivers called Don in Russia, Scotland, England and France reflect this. The Danube which flows to the Black Sea is their most important river and could reflect their eastern origins

www.vedanet.com...

Their king and leader was Asura Maya otherwise known as Maya Danava who after the destruction of their city Tripura traveled into India. The Irish know him as Manannán. He is the builder and inventor of the Vimana which people wrongly attribute to Indians.

Irish mythology is clear in indicating their island Tir na nOg (Atlantis) which was destroyed as being north/west of Ireland and perhaps 5 days sailing in a boat.

These Aryans are the same Celtic peoples found in China who built the pyramids and they are the decedents of the Pharaohs of Egypt which is why leeked dna profiling of king tut found him to be closely related to modern Irish peoples.

The priest cast of ancient Egypt knew this which is why Akhenaten sent his daughter Meritaten (Scota) to Ireland when Moses brought the plague down in Egypt. Scota was buried in Ireland and you can visit her grave there.
en.wikipedia.org...

Her followers were known as the Scotti and are part of the genetic makeup of modern Irish today....funny how
truth always comes out in the end

reply to post by LUXUS




Thanks, i think it will be seen that this is the overall paradigm for world mythology. I don't think the Aryans directly equate with Danavas the Asura, but that they owe their origins to them, and thus have the closest relationship and most reliable recorded accounts, this dating back to the Neolithic period...they are literally then the children of the tutelary Danu.

I'm just begining to realise the importance of the Tripura with regards to the three tiered symbolism that has been the basis of much of my postings here, the interconnectivity between the three levels of the Heavens, Earth and Underworld.

The iron fort was the lowest level of the Tripura, and supposedly the one most directly connected to Earth and were a locale could perhaps be suggested with regards to the Western Ocean.

And grant us three forts, one made out of gold, one of silver and one of iron. These three forts should be able to fly and go to anyplace that we desire. The forts will be separate from one another and will come together only very rarely. Only a single arrow which can bring all the three forts together and burn them will result in our destruction. This is our wish.”

Brahma, though startled at this strange request, granted the wish and disappeared.

Maya, the danava architect was commanded by Brahma to build the three cities. Maya built three beautiful cities, filled with palaces and divine space chariots. The golden fort was built in the heavens and was occupied by Taarakaksha. The silver one was built in the skies and went to Kamalaaksha. The iron fort was built on earth and was inhabited by Vidhyunmaali. The forts floated around the worlds causing no hindrance to anyone at all.

kshetrapuranas.wordpress.com...

Tripura was located in the Southern Ocean. It is located in the Ramayana epic as a principle capital of three major continents. The atlantic continents are sited in sanskrit as Daitya, Ruta and Atla. Atla was a continent in the northern seas, now present day Greenland. Daitya is a continent in the west, off the coast of Florida, which has sunken completly. The other missing continent is Ruta which is now present day Iceland. Daitya and Ruta at one time formed one continent in the center of the Atlantic and broke apart. Both Greenland and Iceland had not changed form

en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)



The power of the Asura was magical or of a technological/scientific basis, they were not in the literal sense 'Gods', as were the Devas, but that power was considerable in their capacity to traverse time and space and even raise the dead.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


The knowledge of the Asuras was perhaps based on a very in depth knowledge of metals and acoustics. Asura Maya is still today the patron of all metalworkers in South India who attribute this knowledge to him as they also do temple architecture (interestingly the temple architecture is pyramidal )and astrology. The Irish also say the Tuatha Dé Danann were masters of metallurgy even replacing Nuadas severed hand with a metallic one which could move and feel like a real one. The story of the sword Excalibur also has its root origin in Irish mythology where it is called Caladbolg, the lightning sword!

The three levels of Tripura is interesting when you compare it to the three metallic rings of Atlantis.

As far as I understand it the Devas are nature spirits associated with fertility rather then gods. The war between the Asuras and the Devas is told in Norse mythology too under the Æsir–Vanir War

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Kantzveldt


In this thread.
I can see ancient landscapes of boggs and brown buroughs soft and dripping in a mornings mist.
I'm all in

SnF

Sounds almost like the Anglo Saxons invaded after the comet or meteor blew up over England and Ireland about 600 AD. That is buried in the existing history. The existing people of England, where the damage was more severe, may have gone to Norway after the event to live. The Anglo Saxons Conquered England easily because most everyone had either been killed or evacuated.

BTW Osiris is more correctly called "assur" because he was an asura who arrived in Egypt with the nine neteru after the Island of trampling otherwise known as the island of conflict or the pay lands sank beneath the waves.

reply to post by LUXUS


Okay...my mind has officially been blown away, yet again with another outstanding thread on a subject I know nothing about.

Their king and leader was Asura Maya otherwise known as Maya Danava who after the destruction of their city Tripura traveled into India. The Irish know him as Manannán. He is the builder and inventor of the Vimana which people wrongly attribute to Indians.

Irish mythology is clear in indicating their island Tir na nOg (Atlantis) which was destroyed as being north/west of Ireland and perhaps 5 days sailing in a boat.

These Aryans are the same Celtic peoples found in China who built the pyramids and they are the decedents of the Pharaohs of Egypt which is why leeked dna profiling of king tut found him to be closely related to modern Irish peoples.

The priest cast of ancient Egypt knew this which is why Akhenaten sent his daughter Meritaten (Scota) to Ireland when Moses brought the plague down in Egypt. Scota was buried in Ireland and you can visit her grave there.
en.wikipedia.org...

Her followers were known as the Scotti and are part of the genetic makeup of modern Irish today....funny how
truth always comes out in the end

I have not read anything regarding the Vedic and had no idea that Scotts were descended from Egyptians, mind blowing.

Please bear with me on this question: Is the Maya Danava any relation to the Maya of South American or is it just a coincidence in the name?

S&F

reply to post by Julie Washington



Well Cuchulain is an Irish hero and here is "Kulkulans" temple

reply to post by LUXUS


Of course as you wrote the Aesir and Vanir are the Nordic equivalent of the Asura and Devas;



Odin shot a spear, hurled it over the host;
that was still the first war in the world,
the defense wall was broken of the Æsir's stronghold;
the Vanir, indomitable, were trampling the plain

Æsir is the plural of áss, óss "god" (gen. āsir) which is attested in other Germanic languages, e.g., Old English ōs (gen. pl. ēsa) and Gothic (as reported by Jordanes) anses "half-gods". These all stem from Proto-Germanic *ansis ~ ansuz, which itself comes from Proto-Indo-European *h₂énsus (gen. h₂n̥sóus) "life force" (cf. Avestan aŋhū "lord; lifetime", ahura "godhood", Sanskrit ásu "life force", ásura "god" (< *h₂n̥suró)). It is widely accepted that this word is further related to *h₂ens- "to engender" (cf. Hittite hass- "to procreate, give birth", Tocharian B ās- "to produce").[3]

Old Norse áss has the genitive áss or ásar, the accusative æsi and ásu. In genitival compounds, it takes the form ása-, e.g. in Ása-Þórr "Thor of the Aesir", besides ás- found in ás-brú "gods' bridge" (the rainbow), ás-garðr, ás-kunnigr "gods' kin", ás-liðar "gods' leader", ás-mogin "gods' might" (especially of Thor), ás-móðr "divine wrath" etc. Landâs "national god" (patrium numen) is a title of Thor, as is allmáttki ás "almighty god", while it is Odin who is "the" ás.

en.wikipedia.org...


THe myths and legends derivative from the tradition are sprawling and complex, were for example the Fallen Angels of the Bible are based on the Asura as well as the Igigi that revolted against the Anuna in Sumerian literature, skill in crafts and metallurgy as well as astronomy, mathamatics and architecture are associated traits




reply to post by randyvs



Indeed, this is putting a name to a great histroical 'Boggart'

In Northern England, at least, there was the belief that the boggart should never be named, for when the boggart was given a name, it would not be reasoned with nor persuaded, but would become uncontrollable and destructive


en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I have studied the biblical sons of god (the Elohim) who mated with the daughters of man (Adam). What we can say about this is that there was at that time two genetic lines. One descended from Adam through eve and you can call them the adamic race, the other was the angels who are the Elohim. The Asuras are the same as the Greek titans I believe and yes I believe they had the blood of the Elohim in them. They are the decedents of Cain and they were titans (giants).

What however are the Elohim? perhaps they are from another dimension, basically ETs

Lets also remember that ahura mazda really means Asura mazda. In antiquity you were either pro asura or pro Devas. Examining those cultures that were pro asura might give a clue as to who their descendents are today

Wherever you find pyramidal structures on this planet you find asura culture!

reply to post by LUXUS


The pyramid or mountain of the horizon, place of establishment does seem a fundamental aspect of Asura tradition, with regards to it being a place of light or fire and transformation, a portal between the three realms, in conjunction with an axis of alignment such as a 'world tree'

I announce (and) carry out (this Yasna) for the mountain Ushi-darena, the Mazda-made, with its sacred brilliance, and for all the mountains glorious with sanctity,1 with their abundant Glory Mazda-made, and for that majestic Glory Mazda-made, the unconsumed


I announce (and) carry out (this Yasna) for all those who are the thirty three masters of Asha, which, coming the nearest, are around about Hawan, and which (as in their festivals) were instituted by Ahura Mazda, and were promulgated by Zarathushtra, as the masters of Asha Vahishta.


I announce (and) carry out (this Yasna) for the two, for Ahura and Mithra, the lofty, and the everlasting, and the Asha-sanctified, and for all the stars which are Spenta Mainyu's creatures, and for the star Tishtrya, the resplendent and glorious, and for the Moon which contains the seed of the Kine, and for the resplendent Sun, the swift-horsed, the eye of Ahura Mazda

When i was looking at culyic sites around Mount Hermon recently in association with the Watchers i noted the fire altars with the Persian stepped motif.

In Plato's story of Atlantis poseidon we are told that in the center of the ringed city was a temple to posiden who symbol is the trident. In the center of that temple(the most holy place) was a column.

In south India the temples are pyramid shaped and that style of architecture is attributed to maya danava. In the center of those buildings (the most holy place) is often a stunted column called the Lingam. Legend says that it is guarded by a snake (cobra).

In ancient Greece a sacred stunted column (an omphalos) was often housed in the center of the temple. Legend has it that a snake (python) guards this stone.

In ancient Egypt a conical or small pyramid shaped stone (the benben stone) was the center of the underworld which is shown as an underground pyramid. Legend says that a snake guards this stone.

In Ireland the most sacred place is a mound at Tara and at its top is a small stunted stone column called the Lia Fáil, we now know there is an ancient underground temple there.

In Sumeria we have the shem stone, a conical shaped stone that was venerated.

Same in south America among the pyramids.

Asura cultures all have pyramids/mounds, sacred conical stones, Sun/fire worship and talk about a flood/war which destroyed their homeland.